The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.
Jul 29, 2021 at 10:16 AM Post #2,071 of 87,427
Piezos are not as good. You don't see UM or EE using them. That would be something. But they are the cheap mans EST drivers. Essentially does what ESTs do. Generally upper trebles with Piezos sounds a bit thinner but it can be precise and airy sounding as well. GK10 surprisingly implements them well.

I found out a dual Sinion EST cost $160 for a set. No way your gonna put ESTs in a $45 earphone. Lol.

Thanks that's great info!

In other news on FB someone asked about Traillii and I made the following comment:

I have zero experience with full size headphones so can’t speak to the Susvara. My IEM experience is pretty vast however and I have owned/extensively demoed much of the high end market of the last couple years, including the Elysium, Andromeda, VE8, u12t, Legend X, Anole VX, Solaris, IER Z1R, MEST, Nio and so on). I was fortunate to demo the Traillii for a couple hours a few weeks ago and my opinion is that unless you’re looking for a more v-shaped IEM (IE., dynamic thumping bass), or an IEM like the u12t that is more a microscope for your music tha a means of enjoying it, the Traillii is probably the singularly most satisfying IEM experience on the market at the moment. To me this boils down to two factors—its state of the art gen 2 e-stat drivers and, more importantly, the masterful tuning of Oriolus’ head engineer Rao You Liang (a.k.a. the “Old Man”). I have heard Traillii’s e-stat drivers in another IEM, the Tansio Spark, and this IEM shared some of the salient characteristics of Traillii’s peerlessly vivid and rendered 3-d stage. What the Spark doesn’t have is the second—and most important factor—the masterful tuning.

On Rao’s tuning in my Isabellae Review I said:

“Encountering Oriolus and their products has opened my eyes to the depth of the craft involved in producing & tuning IEMs and further they have imho set the bar in terms of the degree of artistic expression & mastery it is possible to express through tuning. This experience has had a catalyzing effect in various elements of my approach to and understanding of this hobby. In particular it has solidified in my mind the notion of tuning as a mode of artistic expression vs. merely as utilitarian process aimed at shaping a target curve according to some algorithm. Thus far there have been many IEMs whose tuning I’ve loved and appreciated but Rao’s peerless affinity for extracting nuance, emotion and subtle textures out of vocals; of bringing the whole upper mid-range forward without overshadowing the lower mids, sacrificing weight and body in the mid-bass, sweetness in the highs or veering into anything too shouty; of coaxing out the most subtle, dense and satisfying textures from all levels of a bass response—and all the while conjuring a signature in which one is able to fixate on any individual element of it while never losing sense an overarching gestalt and unity…has, in my mind, elevated his best work to a level approaching transcendent perfection. The quality of the tuning in Oriolus' IEMs shines through whether we’re talking about the modest $600 Isabellae or the $6K titan Traillii which presently stands unchallenged as the preeminent example of IEM sound engineering craft available anywhere on the market.”

What Traillii is ultimately able to do, and what is really the source of its appeal imho, and what is the reason it is selling in massive numbers despite it’s crazy price—is that it is able to take the superb 3-d rendering capacity of the e-stat drivers, utilize their technical capacity to perfection and then inject a good degree—no, an unparalleled amount-- of humanity and emotion into the signature through the tuning. When I first started listening to the Traillii I was amazed how quickly it pulled me completely into its world. At the time I mused that it was an experience kind of like how I always imagined walking into a holodeck from Star Trek would feel like. The staging and space Traillii creates is so vivid & real it almost defines imagination, and couple that with the humanity and emotion of the tuning and it’s sign me up and take my $6K.
 
Jul 29, 2021 at 10:16 AM Post #2,072 of 87,427
It's funny for years I never paid more than $50 for an IEM then for a few years I went crazy and bought all kinds of IEMs at the other end of the $$ spectrum and now here I am seeking out $50 IEMs again. From childhood to childhood lol

I see the GK10 has "piezoelectric" drivers. How are these different from e-stats? Does anyone know?
They are completely different. E-stats are big capacitors, and electricity makes the membranes vibrate - as they are statically charged. Piezos are made from material that emits electrons when deformed (squeezed) like the clickly ignitions on many lighters, but they also do the inverse, and vibrate when fed voltage.

Typically, e-stat speakers are very large and expensive, and use high voltage transformers to supply high -V polarizing voltages.... Piezos were usually used on cheap PA speakers to make super high frequencies.... There have been some used in higher end iems more recently - like Radius, and the Noble Kahn (??)
 
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Jul 29, 2021 at 10:42 AM Post #2,073 of 87,427
Isabellae review made the front page :D
Nice :smiley: I also took some screenshots as commemoration

34r2q9.png

23452346.png


q3242134.png
I have both the Isabelle andymn Softears Turii on their way for a direct comparison. Our friend with great taste in Japan fell

Geek Wold sounds like somebody with a bad lisp trying to say geek world. 😈
This :) Interested in hearing their comparison. I'm hoping to purchase the Turii next month or so
And eagerly waiting for Softears newer 1DD + 2BA hybrid model in the future

In other news, I'm starting to become somewhat of an ice cream enthusiast this summer recently.I like tasting different flavors, and especially the many varieties of matcha recipes here in Japan. Just like how I'm collecting all these IEMs.. It's currently going at a worrying rate

taken-1627567826485-edit-7463995206673.jpg

taken-1624692847614-edit-14707383104004.jpg


This is what it looks like when the green cable is paired with RS10
taken-1627567581659-edit-7443616941572.jpg
 
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Jul 29, 2021 at 10:50 AM Post #2,074 of 87,427
I still have my Mest 11. I broke it in for a whole week 24/7. It sounds quite dynamic, but I have not used it in 2 months. My time was taken up with Dorado 2020 and Isa.
Does your impression also match with Rockwell's?
 
Jul 29, 2021 at 11:40 AM Post #2,075 of 87,427
Nice :smiley: I also took some screenshots as commemoration

34r2q9.png

23452346.png


q3242134.png

This :) Interested in hearing their comparison. I'm hoping to purchase the Turii next month or so
And eagerly waiting for Softears newer 1DD + 2BA hybrid model in the future

In other news, I'm starting to become somewhat of an ice cream enthusiast this summer recently.I like tasting different flavors, and especially the many varieties of matcha recipes here in Japan. Just like how I'm collecting all these IEMs.. It's currently going at a worrying rate

taken-1627567826485-edit-7463995206673.jpg

taken-1624692847614-edit-14707383104004.jpg


This is what it looks like when the green cable is paired with RS10
taken-1627567581659-edit-7443616941572.jpg

Nice!

I didn't see any screenshots of your own review when it made the front page :)

I'm with you on the ice cream-- but only when I travel as ice cream isn't really big in that way here. When I was in Japan I sampled all the different soft serve matcha ice cream I could find...it was one of the definitive highlights of my trip there. When I was in Italy I loved going to all the different gelato shops-- many of them family owned going back many generations. I didn't try different flavors but I had my favorite flavor (lemon) wherever I went.
 
Jul 29, 2021 at 12:40 PM Post #2,076 of 87,427
but I had my favorite flavor (lemon) wherever I went.
So...you do not wait for life to give you Lemons, huh? You seek them out yourselves!
 
Jul 29, 2021 at 1:30 PM Post #2,077 of 87,427
I understand why people who love the MEST love it but it's a perfect example of the sort of tuned by algorithm sound that, while appearing fine on paper, comes off as something where each of the elements were adjusted and determined individually from the top down and somewhere along the way the soul of the thing was lost.
You needed a stronger amp. I don't like the mkii on the M8 at all, in fact. Turbo gain isn't enough for proper control. It's brittle and lifeless.
I was all ready to sell it off and then I plugged it into the AR-M2 (w/ Cayin 4.4 to 3.5 adapter) and the sky's parted. I can't believe how much it came to life. Total 180º (well, audiophile 180). All the strange tonal peaky things and overtones fell in line. The DD and estats started PRODUCING and even went holographic.
I laughably don't want to like it (so hyped, so popular), but I can't seem to quit it.
Likely has everything to do with the high impedance of the player, and the MEST being super source, tip, and fit dependent. If you are fortunate enough to have all that line up, it's pretty darn good. But that begs the question why they would produce such an iEM that is so finicky to begin with? If it wasn't for the God of synergy, it would have been only a faint memory to me.
 
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Jul 29, 2021 at 2:05 PM Post #2,078 of 87,427
Received this spectacular goodie bag of IEMs from the incomparable @tgx78 ...

A88D6C82-9062-44F1-8CF3-A628EDFB3430.JPEG


They are:

PMVPP: planar magnetic
KZ BA10: 5 BAs per channel
Penon Globe: 1 DD + 2BA hybrid
NF NM2+ : dual cavity DD
Blon BL-01: bio-fiber diaphragm DD

Can't wait to start auditioning :)
 
Jul 29, 2021 at 4:52 PM Post #2,079 of 87,427
Received this spectacular goodie bag of IEMs from the incomparable @tgx78 ...




They are:

PMVPP: planar magnetic
KZ BA10: 5 BAs per channel
Penon Globe: 1 DD + 2BA hybrid
NF NM2+ : dual cavity DD
Blon BL-01: bio-fiber diaphragm DD

Can't wait to start auditioning :)

That @tgx78 definitely seems like a top bloke. Really looking forward to hearing your thoughts. The only one of the bunch I've tried is the BL-01 which I still have but it hasn't left the drawer that much. It was a struggle for me to get a good fit due to the depth and shape of the shell and my relatively shallow concha. I won't weigh in with my comments and I'll let you go in reasonably blind.

Enjoy the experience!
 
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Jul 29, 2021 at 4:56 PM Post #2,080 of 87,427
That @tgx78 definitely seems like a top bloke. Really looking forward to hearing your thoughts. The only one of the bunch I've tried is the BL-01 which I still have but it hasn't left the drawer that much. It was a struggle for me to get a good fit due to the depth and shape of the sell and mIs thy relatively shallow concha. I won't weigh in with my comments and I'll let you go in reasonably blind.

Enjoy the experience!

Thanks I've only heard the Globe & PMVPP so far. Globe is characteristically excellent Penon tuning with nice bottom and top end energy. PMVPP I'm not sure what to make of yet...so far it seems a little half baked from an imaging, resolution & general technicalities perspective. Is this the famous Blon that everybody raves about? This will be my first KZ IEM. Reddit will be proud.
 
Jul 29, 2021 at 4:58 PM Post #2,081 of 87,427
Thanks I've only heard the Globe & PMVPP so far. Globe is characteristically excellent Penon tuning with nice bottom and top end energy. PMVPP I'm not sure what to make of yet...so far it seems a little half baked from an imaging, resolution & general technicalities perspective. Is this the famous Blon that everybody raves about? This will be my first KZ IEM. Reddit will be proud.

It is not the famous Blon I'm afraid. That's the BL-03 and they are two different beasts, talking from experience. The BL-01 to me is like the younger brother trying to follow in his older brothers footsteps but taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
 
Jul 29, 2021 at 9:31 PM Post #2,082 of 87,427
98A9D528-DC8A-4067-BF5C-E3B3094F4A28.JPEG

Some super quick impressions after spending the afternoon briefly cycling through all these.

1) Penon Globe....this one is my clear favourite of the bunch I think. Mild, tasteful v-shape. Big, bold dynamic sound, great bass that doesn't overwhelm. Top end is clear, sparkly and present without any peaks or sibilance. Nice and cohesive...BA timbre is not as noticeable as on the similarly configured Oriolus Reborn but the Globe lacks utterly the Reborn's sweetness, allure and clarity in the mids. Upper mids presence is decent without any shoutiness. Bass is nice and present if but not really noteworthy in terms of its definition, detail or extension. Vocal timbre is decent if unremarkable. All in all a very simple but well executed hybrid configuration.

2) Blon 01...probably my second favourite of these "as is". It reminds me a lot of the Carbo Mezzo in terms of its bass presence and impact but the mids and highs feel veiled by the bass in the Blon 01 whereas the Mezzo does not feel veiled and has more sparkle and a more 3D stage. Suffice to say the Blon 01 does not unseat the Carbo Mezzo for me as a $50 option.

3) NF Audio NM2+ - This is an interesting case. Easily the best IEM of the 5 I'm discussing here in terms of technicalities (layering, separation, imaging), fantastic midrange timbre-- both male and female vocals excel on these. Bass is decently present with a nice mid-bass emphasis. The achilles heel here is the overloaded upper mids which makes them often too strident and occasionally shouty. On the whole a nice engaging tuning with great technicalities-- I'll be working on them with some EQ as I feel there is lots of potential here. Stay tuned.

4)KZ BA10 - Not too impressed with these out of the gate. They kind of remind me of an Andromeda that couldn't get it up. Maybe I'll slip them some Viagara and see what happens.

5) PMVPP - Nice sub-bass extension and impact but something about the rest of the sound seems undercooked for me...a weird combination of compressed, congested and veiled...will have to experiment some more.

All impressions with the Shanling M8.
 
Jul 29, 2021 at 10:13 PM Post #2,083 of 87,427


Some super quick impressions after spending the afternoon briefly cycling through all these.

1) Penon Globe....this one is my clear favourite of the bunch I think. Mild, tasteful v-shape. Big, bold dynamic sound, great bass that doesn't overwhelm. Top end is clear, sparkly and present without any peaks or sibilance. Nice and cohesive...BA timbre is not as noticeable as on the similarly configured Oriolus Reborn but the Globe lacks utterly the Reborn's sweetness, allure and clarity in the mids. Upper mids presence is decent without any shoutiness. Bass is nice and present if but not really noteworthy in terms of its definition, detail or extension. Vocal timbre is decent if unremarkable. All in all a very simple but well executed hybrid configuration.

2) Blon 01...probably my second favourite of these "as is". It reminds me a lot of the Carbo Mezzo in terms of its bass presence and impact but the mids and highs feel veiled by the bass in the Blon 01 whereas the Mezzo does not feel veiled and has more sparkle and a more 3D stage. Suffice to say the Blon 01 does not unseat the Carbo Mezzo for me as a $50 option.

3) NF Audio NM2+ - This is an interesting case. Easily the best IEM of the 5 I'm discussing here in terms of technicalities (layering, separation, imaging), fantastic midrange timbre-- both male and female vocals excel on these. Bass is decently present with a nice mid-bass emphasis. The achilles heel here is the overloaded upper mids which makes them often too strident and occasionally shouty. On the whole a nice engaging tuning with great technicalities-- I'll be working on them with some EQ as I feel there is lots of potential here. Stay tuned.

4)KZ BA10 - Not too impressed with these out of the gate. They kind of remind me of an Andromeda that couldn't get it up. Maybe I'll slip them some Viagara and see what happens.

5) PMVPP - Nice sub-bass extension and impact but something about the rest of the sound seems undercooked for me...a weird combination of compressed, congested and veiled...will have to experiment some more.

All impressions with the Shanling M8.
Very nice description of their sound! I think we hear things similarly. PMV was quite a disappointment as I bought into initial hype of it being as a successor of the isine series.
 
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Jul 30, 2021 at 7:09 AM Post #2,085 of 87,427
Thanks that's great info!

In other news on FB someone asked about Traillii and I made the following comment:

I have zero experience with full size headphones so can’t speak to the Susvara. My IEM experience is pretty vast however and I have owned/extensively demoed much of the high end market of the last couple years, including the Elysium, Andromeda, VE8, u12t, Legend X, Anole VX, Solaris, IER Z1R, MEST, Nio and so on). I was fortunate to demo the Traillii for a couple hours a few weeks ago and my opinion is that unless you’re looking for a more v-shaped IEM (IE., dynamic thumping bass), or an IEM like the u12t that is more a microscope for your music tha a means of enjoying it, the Traillii is probably the singularly most satisfying IEM experience on the market at the moment. To me this boils down to two factors—its state of the art gen 2 e-stat drivers and, more importantly, the masterful tuning of Oriolus’ head engineer Rao You Liang (a.k.a. the “Old Man”). I have heard Traillii’s e-stat drivers in another IEM, the Tansio Spark, and this IEM shared some of the salient characteristics of Traillii’s peerlessly vivid and rendered 3-d stage. What the Spark doesn’t have is the second—and most important factor—the masterful tuning.

On Rao’s tuning in my Isabellae Review I said:

“Encountering Oriolus and their products has opened my eyes to the depth of the craft involved in producing & tuning IEMs and further they have imho set the bar in terms of the degree of artistic expression & mastery it is possible to express through tuning. This experience has had a catalyzing effect in various elements of my approach to and understanding of this hobby. In particular it has solidified in my mind the notion of tuning as a mode of artistic expression vs. merely as utilitarian process aimed at shaping a target curve according to some algorithm. Thus far there have been many IEMs whose tuning I’ve loved and appreciated but Rao’s peerless affinity for extracting nuance, emotion and subtle textures out of vocals; of bringing the whole upper mid-range forward without overshadowing the lower mids, sacrificing weight and body in the mid-bass, sweetness in the highs or veering into anything too shouty; of coaxing out the most subtle, dense and satisfying textures from all levels of a bass response—and all the while conjuring a signature in which one is able to fixate on any individual element of it while never losing sense an overarching gestalt and unity…has, in my mind, elevated his best work to a level approaching transcendent perfection. The quality of the tuning in Oriolus' IEMs shines through whether we’re talking about the modest $600 Isabellae or the $6K titan Traillii which presently stands unchallenged as the preeminent example of IEM sound engineering craft available anywhere on the market.”

What Traillii is ultimately able to do, and what is really the source of its appeal imho, and what is the reason it is selling in massive numbers despite it’s crazy price—is that it is able to take the superb 3-d rendering capacity of the e-stat drivers, utilize their technical capacity to perfection and then inject a good degree—no, an unparalleled amount-- of humanity and emotion into the signature through the tuning. When I first started listening to the Traillii I was amazed how quickly it pulled me completely into its world. At the time I mused that it was an experience kind of like how I always imagined walking into a holodeck from Star Trek would feel like. The staging and space Traillii creates is so vivid & real it almost defines imagination, and couple that with the humanity and emotion of the tuning and it’s sign me up and take my $6K.
Personally I would not consider u12t as a microscope on music since it’s not a reference flat tuning, far from it. You should have listened to PP8 or Jomo Flamenco, those are microscopes :)
 

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