[ian91]

I have the 3DT and I love it, but I don't find that it scales up well with source. For instance, when paired with the C9 it's not that great to my ear.

It's great off both M8 + M8+C9 to my ear. Would be tough to choose i.e. not that much in it.

 

[ranfan]

This is eminently fascinating and very encouraging...especially that in the current phase of my audio life mids what I'm most interested in. I look forward to more such comparisons.

There are so many parameters with which to gauge an IEM, not to mention preference/personal taste, source, and synergy. So it's quite rare to see a case where an IEM is so good it makes others redundant especially at this level

The mids on the Traillii are the finest I've ever heard, they are expanded in space and you can pick out detail and tonal nuances really easy. The real standout feature of the Traillii in my opinion (apart from the great treble) is how the bass can sit in total support of the whole stage of music around your head but never obscures. Not obscuring would imply some separation but theres none perceivable at all - it is holding all the ranges above with great intimacy and dynamic. It's the perfect execution of BA bass.

I agree. It's really good especially in the technical department. And especially when rendering and etching out tiny details. But to me the essence of the mids is its timbre, and that's where I personally favor the Isa

 

[ian91]

There are so many parameters with which to gauge an IEM, not to mention preference/personal taste, source, and synergy. So it's quite rare to see a case where an IEM is so good it makes others redundant especially at this level


I agree. It's really good especially in the technical department. And especially when rendering and etching out tiny details. But to me the essence of the mids is its timbre, and that's where I personally favor the Isa

I can totally believe Isa > Traillii in mids for timbre. There's something about a well tuned DD and how it transduces mids that brings out timbre so well.

I will never be without a DD IEM nearby for that reason. The Traillii just sits in such a sweet spot in that it performs admirably in almost every measure. I also think that the end product is greater than the sum of the individual measures of performance. There's a little bit of magic in there somewhere.

 

[Rockwell75]

I agree. It's really good especially in the technical department. And especially when rendering and etching out tiny details. But to me the essence of the mids is its timbre, and that's where I personally favor the Isa

+1 to this. I have not heard Traillii so have no right to an opinion on it and quite honestly if anyone could make an IEM worth $6K just by virtue of tuning magic then Oriolus is it...however timbre is something I'm pretty OCD about. It's one of those things I value disproportionately over any technical skill and which I know many if not most others don't seem to put the same stock in it that I do. Further, given that it's more measureable and quantifiable technical skill is what mostly seems to command the highest price tags in IEMs. Again, I don't have an opinion one way or the other at this point but when you say that you prefer the mids on Isa simply by virtue of their dynamic timbre it's something I can totally relate to.

 

[ian91]

We're in the same boat @Rockwell75. Timbre means more to me than technicalities, which is why 3DT + BL-03, with comparably poor technical proficiency compared to the Bird, are here to stay. Once again though, the Traillii is no slouch with timbral accuracy either, so maybe I just like variety...

 

[Rockwell75]

The Cayin Fantasy in some ways reminds me of one of my favorite IEMs-- the Dorado 2020. The Dorado has an unabashedly colored low end. I have heard some say that it sounds great at times but other times the bass is too much or that it stands in front of the mids. I can recognize the truth in that but at the same time praise the Dorado for it's technical skill in spite of that and, quite frankly, I love the Dorado's bass even when it is too much. For someone with my preferences and library the Dorado 2020 is a near perfect home run-- it won't be for everyone but it sure as hell is for me. The Fantasy is like the Dorado in that Cayin, like CFA were, straightforward with the amount and type of coloring they were looking to bring to the table to manifest their vision for the IEM's sound. With Dorado the color is applied to the low end but with the Fantasy it's in the treble. As I stated the Fantasy sounded great to about 70% of the time but there were times where the boosted treble didn't work as well for me. That said I can well imagine there are people whose library and preferences give them an appetite for air, sparkle, detail and clarity and who also have a willingness to embrace that sort coloration found in the Fantasy in the same way that my preferences and appetite make me an ideal candidate for the Dorado. The Fantasy is very well extended and the highs are nice and clear without being metallic or smeared. I don't think the Fantasy will be for everyone but I can imagine there will be many for whom it will be just what they were looking for.

 

[ranfan]

It is no slouch indeed

I can totally believe Isa > Traillii in mids for timbre. There's something about a well tuned DD and how it transduces mids that brings out timbre so well.

I will never be without a DD IEM nearby for that reason. The Traillii just sits in such a sweet spot in that it performs admirably in almost every measure. I also think that the end product is greater than the sum of the individual measures of performance. There's a little bit of magic in there somewhere.

+1 to this. I have not heard Traillii so have no right to an opinion on it and quite honestly if anyone could make an IEM worth $6K just by virtue of tuning magic then Oriolus is it...however timbre is something I'm pretty OCD about. It's one of those things I value disproportionately over any technical skill and which I know many if not most others don't seem to put the same stock in it that I do. Further, given that it's more measureable and quantifiable technical skill is what mostly seems to command the highest price tags in IEMs. Again, I don't have an opinion one way or the other at this point but when you say that you prefer the mids on Isa simply by virtue of their dynamic timbre it's something I can totally relate to.

Just a fun finding, in Japanese we sometimes call tone or timbre 音色 (ne iro) which literally means sound's color. It's interesting that they refer it to color, as they're somewhat alike in a subjective sense. That despite our common biology we don't all see colors precisely the same, or at least as far as we know (since I can't see through your lens, vice versa). Your green may be 'greener'. And trying to explain colors through words can be accomplished since we share a general understanding of the meaning of those words through the reference to our similar visual sensor and inner workings of its cortex, as well as relativity of our experience on this planet. It'd be hard to explain to someone visually impaired what blue color is verbally. I remember my friend @Wyville explained to me of how a person with ADHD differs quite drastically in the transmission/reception and production of their neurotransmitters. How they perceive information (not to mention the amount) and consequently respond and act differently. Now to get back to the topic of timbre, I think it's fascinating to view how each person may be more perceptible to subtle differences in tone. This may be due to many factors. Be it either environmental or something more inherent. Our senses of how reality sounds like may vary to some degree. Hence an accurate tone, or an uncolored sound are quite unique to each individual's definition/perception. And so the flavor or coloration of the tone which suits the listener are also quite varying to one's personal taste. In a way highlighting that beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Ace Bee]

The Cayin Fantasy in some ways reminds me of one of my favorite IEMs-- the Dorado 2020. The Dorado has an unabashedly colored low end. I have heard some say that it sounds great at times but other times the bass is too much or that it stands in front of the mids. I can recognize the truth in that but at the same time praise the Dorado for it's technical skill in spite of that and, quite frankly, I love the Dorado's bass even when it is too much. For someone with my preferences and library the Dorado 2020 is a near perfect home run-- it won't be for everyone but it sure as hell is for me. The Fantasy is like the Dorado in that Cayin, like CFA were, straightforward with the amount and type of coloring they were looking to bring to the table to manifest their vision for the IEM's sound. With Dorado the color is applied to the low end but with the Fantasy it's in the treble. As I stated the Fantasy sounded great to about 70% of the time but there were times where the boosted treble didn't work as well for me. That said I can well imagine there are people whose library and preferences give them an appetite for air, sparkle, detail and clarity and who also have a willingness to embrace that sort coloration found in the Fantasy in the same way that my preferences and appetite make me an ideal candidate for the Dorado. The Fantasy is very well extended and the highs are nice and clear without being metallic or smeared. I don't think the Fantasy will be for everyone but I can imagine there will be many for whom it will be just what they were looking for.

Does fantasy hold a candle to Isabellae in terms of musicality, stage and imaging?

 

[ian91]

Below cross-posted from 3DT thread. Thank you to @tgx78 for his hard work once again .

I'll be the first to admit FR tells only a small part of the story, but look at the somewhat similar tuning between Isa and modded 3DT with KBear filters (apart from bass). Will have to see if I can secure me a few KBear filters to see what's up (and tide me over to the Isa purchase).

50% coverage with the Tanchjim Tanya filter.


compared to the KBEAR filter with 5 pin holes (green) which is still my favorite mod


compared to the Isabellae

 

[ranfan]

I was looking at your sig and it admiring the fact that we each have IEMs from Campfire, VE and Oriolus...presently my 3 favorite brands. I think I need to hear the Warbler Prelude

Wow, 3. That's quite a coincidence. Looks like we share similar taste. But 2 of them are of different models though. If I hadn't heard the Isa, I might be tempted in getting the Ely to pair with M8 Lucky dear wallet. Right now I'm eyeing only on the M8. And the new Asus Zenfone 8 phone, with 3.5mm phone jack. I really like their DAC/amp tuning and pristine speaker sound. Very underestimated in my opinion. I'd even take my Asus laptop over say N6ii for its sonic quality.

The Prelude I think might be a good entry for finally trying that custom fit listening experience But its sound is rather mid-centric, so I wouldn't recommend it for bass seekers. That said, once you 'get' it you'll love it. That accepting love which encompasses all flaws

This is eminently fascinating and very encouraging...especially that in the current phase of my audio life mids what I'm most interested in. I look forward to more such comparisons.

Next, 'treble' phase. That phase when/where you seek nothingness 無 (mu). A treble so smooth and coherent it flows and shapes itself like water in a transparent glass. Purity in its manifestation. A sound which conjoins reality

 

[ranfan]

@Rockwell75 This song feels somehow surreal on the Isa

 

[Rockwell75]

Just a fun finding, in Japanese we sometimes call tone or timbre 音色 (ne iro) which literally means sound's color. It's interesting that they refer it to color, as they're somewhat alike in a subjective sense. That despite our common biology we don't all see colors precisely the same, or at least as far as we know (since I can't see through your lens, vice versa). Your green may be 'greener'. And trying to explain colors through words can be accomplished since we share a general understanding of the meaning of those words through the reference to our similar visual sensor and inner workings of its cortex, as well as relativity (relatability?) of our experience on this planet. It'd be hard to explain to someone visually impaired what blue color is verbally. I remember my friend @Wyville explained to me of how a person with ADHD differs quite drastically in the transmission/reception and production of their neurotransmitters. How they perceive information (not to mention the amount) and consequently respond and act differently. Now to get back to the topic of timbre, I think it's fascinating to view how each person may be more perceptible to subtle differences in tone. This may be due to many factors. Be it either environmental or something more inherent. Our senses of how reality sounds like may vary to some degree. Hence an accurate tone, or an uncolored sound are quite unique to each individual's definition/perception.

This is all very fascinating to me. Not only do we not know how others perceive things but we can never know due to the asymmetric nature of self consciousness and the fact that you can never get behind your own. Beyond all the pizazz and explosions this was one of the central philosophy of mind questions tackled in the movie Inception.

And so the flavor or coloration of the tone which suits the listener are also quite varying to one's personal taste. In a way highlighting that beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.

I think the comparison to color is interesting-- I was thinking about this recently in connection with taste & food. People in different can get used to and even enjoy different tastes, flavors and foods that people in other cultures might find nauseating. Also there are some things (fresh orange or a mango) that everyone everywhere will find delicious.

Wow, 3. That's quite a coincidence. Looks like we share similar taste. But 2 of them are of different models though. If I hadn't heard the Isa, I might be tempted in getting the Ely to pair with M8 Lucky dear wallet. Right now I'm eyeing only on the M8.

I think our tastes differ somewhat but our fundamental ideals seem quite similar.

M8 is a great choice-- a true magic box. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Isa is in some ways a baby Elysium-- it's the only IEM I've heard that can draw me in emotionally to the midrange to the same degree Ely can. The only thing Ely really has over Isa is technical ability and much better highs...but Isa has DD bass and wonderful single driver coherence...so tit for tat. Honestly Isa is TOTL sound at an entry level price.

Does fantasy hold a candle to Isabellae in terms of musicality, stage and imaging?

It "holds a candle" yes...but I would Isa wins overall for musicality. Stage and imaging is a lot closer, though this can be affected by Fantasy's boosted treble to my ears.

Below cross-posted from 3DT thread. Thank you to @tgx78 for his hard work once again .

I'll be the first to admit FR tells only a small part of the story, but look at the somewhat similar tuning between Isa and modded 3DT with KBear filters (apart from bass). Will have to see if I can secure me a few KBear filters to see what's up (and tide me over to the Isa purchase).

That is incredibly fascinating...3Dt didn't have the wonderfully intimate and textured vocals of the Isabellae...I wonder if's off-the-charts-good single driver coherence played a role for me. Either way I really need to hear the 3DT again.

The Prelude I think might be a good entry for finally trying that custom fit listening experience But its sound is rather mid-centric, so I wouldn't recommend it for bass seekers. That said, once you 'get' it you'll love it. That accepting love which encompasses all flaws

Next, 'treble' phase. That phase when/where you seek nothingness 無 (mu). A treble so smooth and coherent it flows and shapes itself like water in a transparent glass. Purity in its manifestation.

You need to hear Ely's treble. It tops even Z1R's imho...especially through M8.

 

[DanielListening]

the IER Z1R, of the IEMS I've heard, deserved this crown...but now I think I'd have to give it to Isabellae.

Wow. You love this IEM.

I enjoyed my time with the 3DT from @SBranson. I found with the mod it had good cohesion. It definitely wasn’t as technically adept as the EE Bravado MKII or the Andromeda 2020. We talked a bit about the 3DT tonight, @SBranson figured it had some dips around the crossovers if your paying attention and to be honest I can’t say I heard them. It definitely didn’t have extension on either end, that I can say. All in all I enjoyed listening to the 3DT and would be happy paying the $400 USD.

 

[ranfan]

You need to hear Ely's treble. It tops even Z1R's imho...especially through M8

I did, and it was brilliant. However it was through my phone.. Not in all its magnificence

Spoiler

I also wanted to share this song earlier. But the graphics of the video on YT was a bit advisory. So just enjoy the sound

The lyrics are actually not in any known language. Aoba Ichiko invented them to sing for this song. She's really talented. And the traditional instruments incorporated reminded me of Bali island as well

 

[claud W]

Joined the "Waiting for Isa" group. When is Andrew expected to get them in?