Rockwell's Impressions, Reviews and philosophical discussion thread. Index & Current Favorites on first page.
Jul 11, 2021 at 1:43 PM Post #1,636 of 3,284

blotmouse

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I might be having my own source Traillii moment.
Has anyone heard r2r for longer than a trial run and went back to delta/sigma and was content with it? I am finding my love of the M8 wavering and kinda on life support right now. The first time through a song with R01 is fine and it sounds soft and "pretty", but its like subliminal messaging. The second time through the same song and the details your brain didn't understand on run #1 bloom into existence and you are kind of blown away, The mids and treble's exceptional effortlessness is just another level for this analog guy. Most things I used to try filtering and swapping and EQing for the right balance, is just not a problem now. I used to think all these vocalists had deviated septum's, but no, thats the digital sheen talking. I am so stoked for a flagship r2r with maybe some C9 guts for Cayin's next top dog (fingers crossed and wallet full)
 
Jul 11, 2021 at 1:44 PM Post #1,637 of 3,284

aaf evo

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I might be having my own source Traillii moment.
Has anyone heard r2r for longer than a trial run and went back to delta/sigma and was content with it? I am finding my love of the M8 wavering and kinda on life support right now. The first time through a song with R01 is fine and it sounds soft and "pretty", but its like subliminal messaging. The second time through the same song and the details your brain didn't understand on run #1 bloom into existence and you are kind of blown away, The mids and treble's exceptional effortlessness is just another level for this analog guy. Most things I used to try filtering and swapping and EQing for the right balance, is just not a problem now. I used to think all these vocalists had deviated septum's, but no, thats the digital sheen talking. I am so stoked for a flagship r2r with maybe some C9 guts for Cayin's next top dog (fingers crossed and wallet full)

At this point any non r2r dap is dead to me.
 
Jul 11, 2021 at 7:59 PM Post #1,638 of 3,284

ZachPtheDude

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Respectfully, and being fully aware of the nature of this often cesspool of a world we live in, I have no doubt that you have experienced racism, and that I truly lament. That said I don't think it can be reasonably claimed that anything I have said or written can be rightfully classified as racist or as being motivated by racism. I am happy to have specific examples brought out, here, publicly, if anyone disagrees.

Thank-you again for your response.

One of the things about structural racism is that when you’re brought up in a system those systemic biases become engrained. We (White folks) can sincerely decide racism is horrid, and commit ourselves to unlearning said biases, but it’s a lifelong and unending process. I may be entirely opposed to racism and white supremacist systems, but as a white man when someone who is not white goes out of their way to inform me of how certain beliefs, concepts, and attempts at establishing baselines are imbued with racism, I don’t need to deny any wrongdoing on my part, and doing so can serve as a deflection whether that’s our intention or not. If they didn’t think we were sincere about wanting to learn they would just dismiss us as an ignorant racist and most likely not put in the emotional labor required to have a discussion about systemic biases they directly experience. These are violent experiences after all.

One doesn’t have to intend to be racist or motivated by racism to further such systems. I think very much Crinacle assumes good faith, in other words. Sometimes entire concepts can just be very poisonous and require us to tread carefully.

I see far too much conflation of culture and upbringing with a pseudoscientific concept like “biological race.” I don’t think anyone is trying to suggest that only people with “Asian” genetics are targeted by Eastern tunings? Instead, we’re suggesting such tunings target people both brought up in and appreciative of certain cultures and musical styles. One doesn’t have to be Korean to be a K-pop fan after all, but this idea of some kind of inherently Eastern tuning becomes *deeply* flawed when Eastern culture gets inextricably connected to that class that is race.
 
Jul 12, 2021 at 2:22 AM Post #1,639 of 3,284

Rockwell75

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The problem here is that I have no made a single mention of any kind of K-pop, J-pop, or what you consider as "Asian genres" so I can only reasonably assume that you made these links purely on the basis of my ethnicity.

It's just something I gleaned from spending time on Discord. During the time I was most active there arguably the two most hyped IEMs were the Viento and the Z1R and they were consistently praised for, among other things, their ability to render J-Pop and K-Pop... so I just made the association. That said nothing I'm promoting here rests or depends on you actually being a fan of J-Pop or K-Pop or anything of the like-- my only claim is, for reasons itemized in my last comment, you seem to be consistently drawn to a type of tuning more commonly associated with those genres...whether you listen to them or not is ultimately beside any point I'm trying to make here. What I do want to make unremittingly and absolutely clear is that any and all my surmises around what you like/don't like stem from my observations of your writing, rankings & other work-- I am not and have never made any assumptions based simply on your race or nationality. In that much I am sincere-- if you think the ideas I'm presenting beyond that are nonsense, well that's a separate conversation.

Just to be clear (again) I am not investigating this topic in order to promote division or to profile people. I've had or overheard too many conversations that went like:

"This is muddy you should try this."

*tries this" "This is too shouty and needs more mid-bass."

"Dude your ears are broke."

"No your ears are broke."

It seems to me to be a fruitful endeavour to try and understand where other people are coming from with their impressions and preferences. This notion of "Eastern vs. Western" is just one possible schema. While there are certainly others this is one that does seem to hold some weight to me when weighed against all my experiences in this hobby. While a fondness for Asian pop is certainly one reason people seem to prefer the type of tuning I'm describing as Eastern there could certainly be other reasons-- a specific focus on female vocals perhaps, or individual listener sensitivities and so on. I'm not trying to paint in absolutes here-- people can prefer all sorts of different tunings no matter where they're from and of course I recognize that everything is on a spectrum and seldom black and white.


What makes an IEM "Eastern" or "Western"? This whole more-or-less of lower/upper mids classification is only relevant if there is a baseline.

Well I can't give raw numbers or anything but the trend I've noticed is that what I would call Eastern tuning tends to emphasis sub-bass over mid-bass and have a strong upper mid/lower treble presence. Western tuning by comparison tends to have more of a mid-bass emphasis, and lower mids tend to be given precedence over upper mids. An almost paradigm example of this distinction is found looking at the OG Solaris & the IER Z1R. The OG Solaris was criticized for having weak sub bass and an upper mid canyon-- but it had great mid-bass oomph and lower mid presence. The IER Z1R on the other hand had fantastic sub bass, weak sauce mid-bass and upper mids that verged on shouty at times. J-Pop/K-Pop/female vocals sound great on the IER Z1R, but less so on the Solaris and stuff like CCR sounds divine on the Solaris but is shouty and fatiguing on the IER Z1R. This to my mind (and in my experience) is a classic example how a preference for one IEM over the other could be rooted in the kind of distinction I'm trying to make here. Harking back to my original post the only point I was originally trying to make is that your tastes & preferences, in my experience tend to fall along the lines of either reference/flat/neutral sorts of tunings or tunings that veer towards the "Eastern" side of the spectrum as I've laid it out here. I can also appreciate a nice neutral tuning, as in an IEM like the Oriolus Isabellae, but when it comes to coloration I am decidedly on the "Western" side of the spectrum as I love my mid-bass and lower mids.


My point is that this whole East versus West thing is super arbitrary and only serves to deepen the divide in what I'm seeing is an already fractured community. Splitting up the hobby even further into non-correlated geographical aspects is not helping.

I would argue that it's not altogether arbitrary for reasons I've just tried to explain. Please understand that in presenting these ideas I'm not trying to make a value judgment in terms of one tuning or presentation being better or worse than another. What I really want is to go from a place where, upon seeing you dismiss another IEM I love as a bloated muddy mess, instead of saying to myself "well either his ears are broke or my ears are broke and I don't think my ears are broke" I can get to a point where I have a more nuanced understanding of where you're coming from.

Could it be that our inherent biological nature is interlinked with the culture it grew up in, making it not so 'inherent' after all?

It's certainly an interesting question. Due to a number of rather remarkable circumstances I've been privleged to learn and sing many of traditional songs of many of the indigenous tribes up and down the coast of BC over the years. (Example for the curious.) What I've found is that there are definite tonal variations within the languages different tribes depending on where you are. Some tribes were known in particular for their deep booming voices-- in fact when I used to travel around I would get asked a lot if I was from one of the northern tribes known having very deep voices. I've been thinking about all of this because I've wondered if different languages and or dialects can be more/less fixated on different regions of the FR, which could in turn result in different listening sensitivities in individuals in much the same ways that eating types of food common to certain locales and cultures can result in similar gustatory sensitivities. This is all pure speculation of course but it's something I find interesting to think about.
 
Jul 12, 2021 at 4:50 AM Post #1,640 of 3,284

NewEve

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CP155 and 500 are a no go 😔

I ordered some Azla tips (standard and light).

If the Azla don’t work out I give up and the Isa will be for sale.

Quick update on my tip issues with the Isa while waiting for the Azla tips which should be there this coming Thursday (and the JVC Spiral Dots ++ one day).

While a tad too deep at first, the CP500 finally are alright as I don't notice them after a while (opposite of the Final E).

So here's an overview of my tip-rolling experience with the Isa:
  • Stock tips single flange / Too shallow, M are too small, L are too big :thumbsdown:
  • Stock tips double flange / Too deep, size is otherwise fine :thumbsdown:
  • SpinFit CP500 / A tad too deep, M is the right size :thumbsup:
  • Final E tips / Comfy at first then no-go :thumbsdown:
While I hope the Azla or JVC Spiral Dots ++ will be the tips for the Isa, I'm glad I can enjoy these truly marvelous IEMs as they are something really, really, really special...

EDIT: I'm currently trying the Isa with Luxury & Precision's W1 (which I prefer over the W2) and they pair really, really, really well :p
 
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Jul 12, 2021 at 8:22 AM Post #1,641 of 3,284

antdroid

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The problem, Rock, is that you're generalizing an entire continent as well as a type of audio tuning developed from scientific research papers, based on a few interactions with people on discord which is a small demographic.

Do you really think its a culture thing? i am asian-american and i like the "so called eastern tuning"... i.e. same tuning that the california-based harman intl came up with studying people in california...

I dont listen to a second of jpop and kpop.

I listen to rock, classic rock, indie, jazz, classical, american country and folk and bluegrass, post rock, new wave, etc etc. The few asian singers i probably listen to are Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Japanese Breakfast and Lush, which are all american asians singing in very western rock bands.

So whats your thoughts on my outlandish and apparently unique preferences according to your theory? Am I just an outlier because my preferences line up somewhat closely to an industry-standard based on listening preferences?

I think it comes more down to individual preferences than generalizing an entire region or demographic.

Sony makes plenty of headphones and iems that have big midbass bumps, just like a western brand like 64 audio makes iems that fit closer to a subbass over midbass tuning.
 
Jul 12, 2021 at 9:44 AM Post #1,642 of 3,284

Rockwell75

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The problem, Rock, is that you're generalizing an entire continent

Consider the following excerpt from this article:

"As a tuner for Chi-Fi earphone manufacturers, I often encounter difficulties and frustrations trying to convince their management and engineers to accept a certain tone or sound characteristics. They are judging my tuning based on their own experiences of how “good sound” should be represented. They cannot understand why “blurry and unclear” (in their own vocabulary – “模糊不清”) sound would appeal to the westerners. For earphones that are both sold domestically and exported, I have to tune for both the Mainland and western consumers. Therefore it isn’t easy striking a balance between the two audiences."

This was written by a guy in Singapore who tunes earphones for Asian companies for a living and it tacitly acknowledges two things, namely 1) that there are two broad categories of tuning that can broadly be referred to as "Eastern" or "Western" and 2) that what constitutes "Western" tuning can often sound "blurry and unclear" to someone with more Eastern preferences. My point is that this distinction hardly started with me-- but reading the above it clearly resonated with me as I am someone who has had many of my favorite IEMs dismissed as "bloated" and "muddy" (ie., "blurry and unclear") to my perplexed ears by people who seem to have a preference for what could be called "Eastern" tuning. This is really the crux of the matter to me-- I am trying to find a way to account for what appears to be a vast disparity in how some things are perceived without resorting to simply criticizing or dismissing someone's perceptions-- that's all.

I really have no stake in trying to associate one type of tuning or another with any particular geographical region or nationality so perhaps "Eastern" and "Western" was an unfortunate way to name the distinction-- I was simply trying to move away from the term "Chi Fi tuning". Perhaps naively, I assumed the phrase "Eastern tuning" was a less derogatory term. In any case let's move beyond that and define two broad categories of tuning-- let's call them Martha and Fred. Martha tuning has more of an emphasis on mid-bass and lower mids and Fred tuning has more of an emphasis on sub-bass and upper mids. It just so happens that Fred tuning happens to work really well with various genres of Asian pop however there can conceivably be many reasons for preferring one type of tuning over another based simply on someone's individual sensitivities and preferences and/or music choices. It also just so happens that people who prefer Martha tuning often find Fried tuning to have too much upper mids and lacking body in the mid bass and people who prefer Fred tuning often find Martha tuning to be bloated/muddy/hazy. Please note that I am only observing that the sort of distinction in tuning preferences I've labeled Martha and Fred above does seem to be valid to me...associating it intrinsically with any particular geographic region or nationality of people is over and above the point I'm really trying to make, which is simply that the distinction seems to exist.

based on a few interactions with people on discord which is a small demographic.

It's actually from a much broader array of observations and readings including the article above and copious amounts of discussion across multiple audio forums.

Do you really think its a culture thing? i am asian-american and i like the "so called eastern tuning"... i.e. same tuning that the california-based harman intl came up with studying people in california...

No-- my only point is that it does seem to be a valid distinction. While I wouldn't be surprised if there was some correlation with various cultural preferences at times I am ultimately not trying to make any absolute claims about who prefers said tuning (or doesn't) relative to what part of the world they're from.

So whats your thoughts on my outlandish and apparently unique preferences according to your theory? Am I just an outlier because my preferences line up somewhat closely to an industry-standard based on listening preferences?

I think people can be differently sensitive to various regions of the FR in the same way they can be differently sensitive to different types of spiciness or flavoring in food. While I'm sure it's possible in both cases to make some degree of generalization based on geography & nationality for the sake of the point I'm trying to make here I'm fine considering it an entirely personal choice in much the same way that whether one is a "dog person" or a "cat person" is an entirely personal choice.

I think it comes more down to individual preferences than generalizing an entire region or demographic.

100%
 
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Jul 12, 2021 at 10:09 AM Post #1,643 of 3,284

Mehran

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Consider the following excerpt from this article:

"As a tuner for Chi-Fi earphone manufacturers, I often encounter difficulties and frustrations trying to convince their management and engineers to accept a certain tone or sound characteristics. They are judging my tuning based on their own experiences of how “good sound” should be represented. They cannot understand why “blurry and unclear” (in their own vocabulary – “模糊不清”) sound would appeal to the westerners. For earphones that are both sold domestically and exported, I have to tune for both the Mainland and western consumers. Therefore it isn’t easy striking a balance between the two audiences."

This was written by a guy in Singapore who tunes earphones for Asian companies for a living and it tacitly acknowledges two things, namely 1) that there are two broad categories of tuning that can broadly be referred to as "Eastern" or "Western" and 2) that what constitutes "Western" tuning can often sound "blurry and unclear" to someone with more Eastern preferences. My point is that this distinction hardly started with me-- but reading the above it clearly resonated with me as I am someone who has had many of my favorite IEMs dismissed as "bloated" and "muddy" (ie., "blurry and unclear") to my perplexed ears by people who seem to have a preference for what could be called "Eastern" tuning. This is really the crux of the matter to me-- I am trying to find a way to account for what appears to be a vast disparity in how some things are perceived without resorting to simply criticizing or dismissing someone's perceptions-- that's all.

I really have no stake in trying to associate one type of tuning or another with any particular geographical region or nationality so perhaps "Eastern" and "Western" was an unfortunate way to name the distinction-- I was simply trying to move away from the term "Chi Fi tuning". Perhaps naively, I assumed the phrase "Eastern tuning" was a less derogatory term. In any case let's move beyond that and define two broad categories of tuning-- let's call them Martha and Fred. Martha tuning has more of an emphasis on mid-bass and lower mids and Fred tuning has more of an emphasis on sub-bass and upper mids. It just so happens that Fred tuning happens to work really well with various genres of Asian pop however there can conceivably be many reasons for preferring one type of tuning over another based simply on someone's individual sensitivities and preferences and/or music choices. It also just so happens that people who prefer Martha tuning often find Fried tuning to have too much upper mids and lacking body in the mid bass and people who prefer Fred tuning often find Martha tuning to be bloated/muddy/hazy. Please note that I am only observing that the sort of distinction in tuning preferences I've labeled Martha and Fred above does seem to be valid to me...associating it intrinsically with any particular geographic region or nationality of people is over and above the point I'm really trying to make, which is simply that the distinction seems to exist.



It's actually from a much broader array of observations and readings including the article above and copious amounts of discussion across multiple audio forums.



No-- my only point is that it does seem to be a valid distinction. While I wouldn't be surprised if there was some correlation with various cultural preferences at times I am ultimately not trying to make any absolute claims about who prefers said tuning (or doesn't) relative to what part of the world they're from.



I think people can be differently sensitive to various regions of the FR in the same way they can be differently sensitive to different types of spiciness or flavoring in food. While I'm sure it's possible in both cases to make some degree of generalization based on geography & nationality for the sake of the point I'm trying to make here I'm fine considering it an entirely personal choice in much the same way that whether one is a "dog person" or a "cat person" is an entirely personal choice.



100%
I like the food analogy, one must not be offended if someone says you are Italian so you like spaghetti ,lol . I wouldn’t take offence to that.
 
Jul 12, 2021 at 11:34 AM Post #1,644 of 3,284

8481

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I listen to rock, classic rock, indie, jazz, classical, american country and folk and bluegrass, post rock, new wave, etc etc. The few asian singers i probably listen to are Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Japanese Breakfast and Lush, which are all american asians singing in very western rock bands.

Some more Indie Rock bands with Asian asian singers off the top of my head - Young the Giant, Little Red, Last Dinosaur I think you'd like based on the Yeah Yeah Yeahs mention lol.
 
Jul 12, 2021 at 11:35 AM Post #1,645 of 3,284

etlouis

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Consider the following excerpt from this article:

"As a tuner for Chi-Fi earphone manufacturers, I often encounter difficulties and frustrations trying to convince their management and engineers to accept a certain tone or sound characteristics. They are judging my tuning based on their own experiences of how “good sound” should be represented. They cannot understand why “blurry and unclear” (in their own vocabulary – “模糊不清”) sound would appeal to the westerners. For earphones that are both sold domestically and exported, I have to tune for both the Mainland and western consumers. Therefore it isn’t easy striking a balance between the two audiences."

This was written by a guy in Singapore who tunes earphones for Asian companies for a living and it tacitly acknowledges two things, namely 1) that there are two broad categories of tuning that can broadly be referred to as "Eastern" or "Western" and 2) that what constitutes "Western" tuning can often sound "blurry and unclear" to someone with more Eastern preferences. My point is that this distinction hardly started with me-- but reading the above it clearly resonated with me as I am someone who has had many of my favorite IEMs dismissed as "bloated" and "muddy" (ie., "blurry and unclear") to my perplexed ears by people who seem to have a preference for what could be called "Eastern" tuning. This is really the crux of the matter to me-- I am trying to find a way to account for what appears to be a vast disparity in how some things are perceived without resorting to simply criticizing or dismissing someone's perceptions-- that's all.

I really have no stake in trying to associate one type of tuning or another with any particular geographical region or nationality so perhaps "Eastern" and "Western" was an unfortunate way to name the distinction-- I was simply trying to move away from the term "Chi Fi tuning". Perhaps naively, I assumed the phrase "Eastern tuning" was a less derogatory term. In any case let's move beyond that and define two broad categories of tuning-- let's call them Martha and Fred. Martha tuning has more of an emphasis on mid-bass and lower mids and Fred tuning has more of an emphasis on sub-bass and upper mids. It just so happens that Fred tuning happens to work really well with various genres of Asian pop however there can conceivably be many reasons for preferring one type of tuning over another based simply on someone's individual sensitivities and preferences and/or music choices. It also just so happens that people who prefer Martha tuning often find Fried tuning to have too much upper mids and lacking body in the mid bass and people who prefer Fred tuning often find Martha tuning to be bloated/muddy/hazy. Please note that I am only observing that the sort of distinction in tuning preferences I've labeled Martha and Fred above does seem to be valid to me...associating it intrinsically with any particular geographic region or nationality of people is over and above the point I'm really trying to make, which is simply that the distinction seems to exist.



It's actually from a much broader array of observations and readings including the article above and copious amounts of discussion across multiple audio forums.



No-- my only point is that it does seem to be a valid distinction. While I wouldn't be surprised if there was some correlation with various cultural preferences at times I am ultimately not trying to make any absolute claims about who prefers said tuning (or doesn't) relative to what part of the world they're from.



I think people can be differently sensitive to various regions of the FR in the same way they can be differently sensitive to different types of spiciness or flavoring in food. While I'm sure it's possible in both cases to make some degree of generalization based on geography & nationality for the sake of the point I'm trying to make here I'm fine considering it an entirely personal choice in much the same way that whether one is a "dog person" or a "cat person" is an entirely personal choice.



100%

Shure makes iems like 535 and 846. So did Oppoty make Blon 03. Both are warm and both sold well. It's not as if we can slice the audiophile community in two and decide which tuning is universally superior.

As for the article... it's bad. Bad in a way that it doesn't add much to the audiophile discussion but rather something to disturb people and create division. The title is also aptly named "Why is it so damn piercing to Western Ears?". If you look at the author's reviews, he has not experienced anything better than a KZ / TRN.

Of course they're piercing. It's like $10 dollars and out of budget to put even one genuine Knowles in the shell.
 
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Jul 12, 2021 at 11:47 AM Post #1,647 of 3,284

Mehran

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Diversity in race, colour, nationality and ethnicity , and in this case people's taste and hearing are all great ,they make life rich and we should embrace it, but at the same time they on the surface and superficial things. If we self-identify too much we these things we are not doing ourselves any favours . And it will be easy for us to get offended by any stupid thing.
Racism is a very hateful and ugly thing , and we shouldn’t label any little thing as that .
 
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Jul 12, 2021 at 11:51 AM Post #1,648 of 3,284

Rockwell75

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I like the food analogy, one must not be offended if someone says you are Italian so you like spaghetti ,lol . I wouldn’t take offence to that.

I feel there are many parallels between our relationship with food and with our favorite music and gear if for no other reason than the similarity in the emotional connection involved. I remember the following insightful comment from a couple years ago:

I think the hi-fi audio consumer has a different psychology than a consumer of regular everyday goods. When I buy a washing machine I do it without passion. I'm only concerned with its objective qualities: does it wash well, is it energy efficient, is it quiet, does it cost a reasonable price, and I don't particularly care about the brand or if anybody else likes it.

A high end headphone on the other hand is not something that simply satisfies a need. We have an expectation that it will somehow enrich our lives, it will bring us joy and happiness. You "love" your headphone but you don't give a second thought to your washing machine, even though your washing machine is much more useful/needed in your life. When you love something, you begin to have a relationship with that thing. If someone tries to hurt it, you want to protect it.

Speaking specifically to food another parallel I see is how there are certain basic foods (fresh fruits & grains vis a vis standard/neutral tunings) that can be appreciated by everyone anywhere but within every individual there are also preferences for specific types of coloration/specialized flavors & dishes that may or may not be related to cultural or geographical factors and will be less popular/universally liked.
 
Jul 12, 2021 at 12:06 PM Post #1,649 of 3,284

HiFiHawaii808

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The problem, Rock, is that you're generalizing an entire continent as well as a type of audio tuning developed from scientific research papers, based on a few interactions with people on discord which is a small demographic.

Do you really think its a culture thing? i am asian-american and i like the "so called eastern tuning"... i.e. same tuning that the california-based harman intl came up with studying people in california...

I dont listen to a second of jpop and kpop.

I listen to rock, classic rock, indie, jazz, classical, american country and folk and bluegrass, post rock, new wave, etc etc. The few asian singers i probably listen to are Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Japanese Breakfast and Lush, which are all american asians singing in very western rock bands.

So whats your thoughts on my outlandish and apparently unique preferences according to your theory? Am I just an outlier because my preferences line up somewhat closely to an industry-standard based on listening preferences?

I think it comes more down to individual preferences than generalizing an entire region or demographic.

Sony makes plenty of headphones and iems that have big midbass bumps, just like a western brand like 64 audio makes iems that fit closer to a subbass over midbass tuning.
This explains why I resonate with your reviews, impressions and rankings. I like similar music and tuning. Although, I think I prefer more bass than you do.
 
Jul 12, 2021 at 12:22 PM Post #1,650 of 3,284

feverfive

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If we self-identify too much we these things we are not doing ourselves any favours . And it will be easy for us to get offended by any stupid thing.
I am intentionally highlighting only this one part of the whole statement...

Have you even MET head-fi? Or any hobbyist community? <-----this is asked tongue-in-cheek, so please don't take offense.

I mean, this forum is all about over-indentifying with objects we buy. Every product thread, yeah also the ones in which I participate, wind up largely being circle jerks of mutual admiration. TBC, I'm not saying this in an angry, accusatory way. **It's the very nature of hobbies, and the advent of specialized online communities highlights this even more.** It's nigh impossible to fully engage in any hobby without participating/perpetuating this, especially online IMO. It contributed greatly to why I more or less left the hobby (at least the online community aspects of it) for 5+ years until coming back about a year ago.
 

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