[greenkomodo1]

Can get some really great deals on ebay. Is it worth paying 75 bucks / £50 for the upgrade from 10i?

 

[dlayman]

  Can get some really great deals on ebay. Is it worth paying 75 bucks / £50 for the upgrade from 10i?

 
IMO, it is. Keep in mind it has a completely different sound signature than the T10.  Much better treble extension and bass that isn't overdone but still hits hard.  Most people who are big fans of one don't like the other.  I really like the M750, hated the 10 and love the 20.  But people who really dig the 10 might find the 20 too bright.  I find the 20 to be pretty balanced and refined with just a touch of extra sub-bass.

 

[greenkomodo1]

Thanks a lot. I am coming from using the IE80s and my cable broke so going to try something else. I have tried Westum, cheap Shures, Etymotic and UE900 and they are all far too flat for my liking. I've got the 10i coming tomorrow so will give them a whirl.

   
IMO, it is. Keep in mind it has a completely different sound signature than the T10.  Much better treble extension and bass that isn't overdone but still hits hard.  Most people who are big fans of one don't like the other.  I really like the M750, hated the 10 and love the 20.  But people who really dig the 10 might find the 20 too bright.  I find the 20 to be pretty balanced and refined with just a touch of extra sub-bass.

 
Thanks a lot. I am coming from using the IE80s and my cable broke so going to try something else. I have tried Westum, cheap Shures, Etymotic E4RS and UE900 and they are all far too flat for my liking despite the nice detail in them. I've got the 10i coming tomorrow so will give them a whirl.

 

[noobnorwegian]

Anyone know how the bass quantity of the T20 is compared to SoundMagic E10? I like the SQ of the E10, but IMO it could have a little stronger bass - sub bass and slightly more treble.
 
Is the T20 as forgiving to recordings as the westone W60/4R? I loved my W60 until it fell on the ground and broke. Now I am considering something cheaper, more sturdy (build quality) equally smooth but with more bass presence. Sometimes I think of T10 with treble filter could perhaps do the trick, or sometimes T20 with bass filter... or am I looking at the wrong IEMs?

 

[HiFiChris]

@noobnorwegian
 
What tips are you using with the E10? The stock silicone ones? If so, which of the two? The narrow or the wide bore ones? The wide bore tips deliver a bassier sound.

The T20 is bassier than the E10 but also brighter.
 
Red is the E10 (wide bore tips), grey the T20 (reference filters):
 

 

Spoiler: About the measurements

From http://frequency-response.blogspot.de/p/about-measurement-graphs.html:

Please note that my plots weren't recorded with professional equipment but with my Vibro Veritas coupler that was pseudo-calibrated to more or less match a real IEC 711 coupler’s response with applied diffuse-field target, hence the results shouldn’t be regarded as absolute values but rather as a rough visualisation.
Especially at 3, 6 and 9 kHz, there are sometimes greater deviations from professional plots – but for a general, rough comparison between various in-ears and a rough idea of how they sound, the results are sufficient, and in the mids and lows, they are even (very) accurate. If the treble or any other frequency band deviates from my perception, I'll note that below the graph.


You are probably also interested in what I am using to measure the in-ears, so I'll list my gear:

1. First and foremost, I am using my Acer Windows 7 64 Bit Home Premium Laptop with Intel i7 quad-core processor, 16 GB of RAM and many other cool features - but that doesn't really matter, as about any computer is able to do the measurement stuff. For recording the plots, I use ARTA as software.
2. The most important thing when doing the measurements with multi-driver in-ears that have a varying impedance response over their frequency range is having a source with as low as possible output impedance, hence I'm using the LH Labs Geek Out IEM 100 for that purpose.
   It features a ruler-flat frequency response without and with complex load from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, which is important for getting a good result.
3. The microphone/measurement coupler I am using is the Vibro Labs Veritas, which I calibrated to mimic a real IEC 711 coupler's response with applied diffuse-field compensation target.
4. The interface I use for capturing the microphone input is actually quite simple - it is a cheap StarTech.com ICUSBAUDIO2D. Its microphone input section sufficient, as it has got loads of amplification power to achieve a strong input level, and most importantly, its input frequency response is flat from 20 Hz (-0.2 dB) to 20 kHz (+/- 0 dB)

As you can see, the fundamental requirements (flat input and output response from 20 to 20000 Hz, very close to 0 Ohms output impedance of the output device) are given, so that the recording gear doesn't influence the in-ears' sound.

 

[noobnorwegian]

  @noobnorwegian
 
What tips are you using with the E10? The stock silicone ones? If so, which of the two? The narrow or the wide bore ones? The wide bore tips deliver a bassier sound.

The T20 is bassier than the E10 but also brighter.
 
Red is the T10 (wide bore tips), grey the T20 (reference filters):
 

 
I am using Comply foam tips. I generally prefer foam, as they are more comfortable and isolate better. My favorite foams are the Shure foam, but they only fit narrow bore designs. I read that some people compared T20 with 4r in the mid-range, but it seems like the T20 has a lot more response between 2 k hz and 5 k hz.
 
Is the red line E10 or T10?

 

[HiFiChris]

 
@noobnorwegian


What tips are you using with the E10? The stock silicone ones? If so, which of the two? The narrow or the wide bore ones? The wide bore tips deliver a bassier sound.


The T20 is bassier than the E10 but also brighter.

Red is the T10 (wide bore tips), grey the T20 (reference filters):

I am using Comply foam tips. I generally prefer foam, as they are more comfortable and isolate better. My favorite foams are the Shure foam, but they only fit narrow bore designs. I read that some people compared T20 with 4r in the mid-range, but it seems like the T20 has a lot more response between 2 k hz and 5 k hz.

Is the red line E10 or T10?

Oops, red is of course the E10.

Because of the wide bore, the E10 should sound about similar with the Comply Foam tips as it does with the wide bore silicone tips.

But yeah, where the E10 sounds dark, the T20 has got more treble quantity around 3-5 kHz.

 

[dlayman]

The T20 measurements look pretty good, generally flat with some bass boost. That's how they sound to me. Good response in the treble but refined and not sibilant.

 

[noobnorwegian]

  Thanks a lot. I am coming from using the IE80s and my cable broke so going to try something else. I have tried Westum, cheap Shures, Etymotic and UE900 and they are all far too flat for my liking. I've got the 10i coming tomorrow so will give them a whirl.
 
Thanks a lot. I am coming from using the IE80s and my cable broke so going to try something else. I have tried Westum, cheap Shures, Etymotic E4RS and UE900 and they are all far too flat for my liking despite the nice detail in them. I've got the 10i coming tomorrow so will give them a whirl.

 
How is your whirl going?

 

[greenkomodo1]

I like the RHA 10i, they're similar to my IE80 but it's been a whilst so I can't remember how they differ. Love that type of signature though. 

I don't like the long cable (even though it's useful its just a bit too long), they're a bit heavy but not really a con. I hate memory wire as it just adds to the time it takes to put in...this is where I love the IE80s.
 
But they sound fine for the £70 I paid for them. I have treble sensitive ears it appears, if I crank the volume up to compensate for loud envrionment noise, the odd vocal notes and guitar solos really pierce and hurt my ears. Not sure if this is really my ears or equipment. I use a Fiio X3 2nd gen.
 
Happy overall, I just ordered some Phantom Master 4 as everyone says they are amazing and at half price I thought I'd go for them. No idea what to expect.
 
It appears I can get the T20 for really only 20 bucks more than what I paid for the RHA 10i, not sure if it's worth getting them or the 750 instead to solve my treble woes?

 

[dlayman]

I like the RHA 10i, they're similar to my IE80 but it's been a whilst so I can't remember how they differ. Love that type of signature though. 


I don't like the long cable (even though it's useful its just a bit too long), they're a bit heavy but not really a con. I hate memory wire as it just adds to the time it takes to put in...this is where I love the IE80s.

But they sound fine for the £70 I paid for them. I have treble sensitive ears it appears, if I crank the volume up to compensate for loud envrionment noise, the odd vocal notes and guitar solos really pierce and hurt my ears. Not sure if this is really my ears or equipment. I use a Fiio X3 2nd gen.

Happy overall, I just ordered some Phantom Master 4 as everyone says they are amazing and at half price I thought I'd go for them. No idea what to expect.

It appears I can get the T20 for really only 20 bucks more than what I paid for the RHA 10i, not sure if it's worth getting them or the 750 instead to solve my treble woes?

If you're finding the T10s treble, which is very rolled off, to be bright or bothersome, don't bother with the T20 or 750 both of which have a much stronger, and Imo, balanced treble response. T10's are very bass heavy and rolled off at the top, you won't like the others.

 

[nmatheis]

dlayman: I *think* T10 has a peak around 10-12k that can be bothersome to some people. It's possible that T10 could be hot for some, whereas T20 is just fine

 

[greenkomodo1]

Lol which one of you are correct..

 

[dlayman]

@dlayman: I *think* T10 has a peak around 10-12k that can be bothersome to some people. It's possible that T10 could be hot for some, whereas T20 is just fine

Looking at frequency graphs, It looks like it has a massive suckout throughout the treble range and then returns to normal at about that range.  I imagine that could be perceived as a peak.  There isn't a lot going on at  that frequency range though, I'm surprised people are bothered by it.  Its usually stuff in the 4-8khz octave that irritates some people.

 

[nmatheis]

I'm not bothered by T10's upper end but swear I've read comments by others that it does indeed bother them.