[JulioCat]

godluvsxs

Comes with Digital Filter DF1704

 

[slim.a]

Quote:

Originally Posted by godluvsxs /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for your guidance, so let me make it clear here before I trigger the purchase, even with the analytical DF1704, the bass impact (punch) is better than COMPASS's dac? Bass impact is quite important in some of my records playback, personally I think that COMPASS bass is there but not tight enough, thus when the bass hit it tend to be quite loose, which weaken the bass impact in my sense

Yes, in my system the DF1704 gives more impact. However, you have to keep in mind that I have upgraded the headphone cable, the interconnect, and power cords, hence the improvement may not be as noticeable with basic interconnects and power cords.

 

[K3cT]

Now for something totally from the left field, has anyone compared this with a Stello DAC100 before?

 

[Patu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3cT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now for something totally from the left field, has anyone compared this with a Stello DAC100 before?

I've owned DA100 previously but I can't compare the two because I had totally different setup back then.

 

[Patu]

I did some comparison between optical and coaxial connection today. I currently have ESI Maya44 soundcard with native ASIO support. It also has coaxial and optical output straight on the card without any breakout cables. So I pulled 4m coaxial (Bluejeans Belden 1694A Coaxial) from the sound card to DAC19Mk3. Then I pulled Bluejeanscable 4m optical same way. I could easily switch between the two just by switching the input on front of DAC19Mk3.

Here are the results:

I could hear no difference at all. No matter how hard I tried there simply were no difference between the two. I went through my usual test tracks and couldn't hear a slight difference. This is funny because I thought I heard some difference between my QED P75 coaxial cable and Bluejeans coaxial cable. But now there's no difference between the two transfer methods.

Well anyways I've lately had some problems with electricity here. I live in a very old building so the wiring is very old also. Sometimes when I turn on the lights I might hear a click if there's a track playing. This happens with coaxial connection between my PC and DAC. So I think I'll stick with optical connection for now. I (once again) ordered ESI Juli@ for reference quality optical out connection. There's probably not any difference between Maya44 and Juli@ but it makes me feel better to have Juli@ there.

Luckily I got one very cheap through eBay.

 

[slim.a]

Patu,
Maybe if your current soundcard is not galvanically isolated in its coaxial output, and you are A/Bing optical vs coaxial, the noise is still being transmitted through the coaxial output that is connected when you are listening through optical?
As for the electricity problem, you might want to check this pulse protector.

 

[ccschua]

Hi,

Just wonder how to know if the unit comes with DF1704 or PMD100 ? There is a switch at the back and is it for that purpose.

 

[FauDrei]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccschua /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just wonder how to know if the unit comes with DF1704 or PMD100 ? There is a switch at the back and is it for that purpose.

Unit comes with DF1704 unless you specifically ask for PMD100. But for $30 you can get PMD100 module and swap modules to your liking.

There is no switch at the back (at least in standard non customised units).

 

[slim.a]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccschua /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi, Just wonder how to know if the unit comes with DF1704 or PMD100 ? There is a switch at the back and is it for that purpose.

When I bought it a few months ago, the dac came with pmd100.
As for now, it seems that they have switched to the df1704 and the pmd100 can be had as an option (here).
Mine didn't come with a switch

Edit --
Sorry, FauDrei already answered the question

 

[regal]

get both boards, it will help with resale if you ever decide to upgrade to one of their higher models. I prefer the PMD100, others like the DF1704. They are both better filters than 90% of what else is out there.

 

[vlach]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'll write a very short comparison between Bel Canto DAC3 and Audio GD DAC19Mk3. I'm not that good in writing long reviews so I'll skip it. I'll just briefly tell about the differences I hear between them. You can see my equipment chain listed in my signature. I did my comparisons mainly with my speaker rig. About DAC19Mk3: When I first heard Audio GD DAC19Mk3, I owned Audionemesis DC-1 DAC. DC-1 has very smooth and analog like sound which you couldn't believe coming from DAC and ultimately from computer. Anyways it's even too mellow and smooth sounding and when you'd miss that aggressiveness and attack, it might not be there. Audio GD greatly improved on details, clarity and sounded overall better than DC-1. Audio GD brought energy and excitement to the music but still stayed on the warm and natural side. IMO Kingwa's description of "monitor like sound" is pretty much rubbish. Monitor like sound is what Benchmark DAC1 (and in some sense, Bel Canto DAC3) produces. Utterly neutral sound with sharp high end and superb details. DAC19Mk3 is IMO slightly on the warm side and is very easy to listen to. Pleasant and smooth sound signature overall. Usually warmth is related to unextended highs and poor bass performance (loose basses etc.). With DAC19Mk3 bass stays in great control and extends pretty nicely. High end definitely isn't as energetic as it could be. I can hear that and it was also measured by slim.a earlier in this thread. I clearly can hear this now when I have DAC3 to compare. But this is what makes the DAC so nice to listen to. You just can't get fatigued with this DAC. About DAC3: Well then my Bel Canto DAC3 arrived. I was full of excitement when I picked it up from our local customs office and finally got home and plugged it in. The sound was completely different from DAC19Mk3. What struck me first was the insane amount of details and separation which was really something quite astonishing. The difference was much bigger between DAC3 and DAC19 than it was between DC-1 and DAC19Mk3. I could once again hear new things on my recordings. I even checked my cell phone couple of times through the test session because I thought it was ringing but instead the new sounds I was hearing were on the track. The soundstage was more "spot on". What I mean is that the instruments were more clearly on their own places. Very clear soundstage, which was also very deep. With many test tracks, I could clearly hear that the vocalist stood in front of the band and the instruments actually are behind the vocalist. You could also call this "more upfront" sound maybe? Soundstage width was pretty much the same with both DACs. Bass performance with DAC3 is stunning. Very fast and extremely deep bass. It surpasses DAC19Mk3 bass performance being more extended and having more slam. Overall the sound coming drom DAC3 is more dynamic and toe tapping than it is with DAC19Mk3. Though DAC19Mk3 takes you in to the music very well also but it doesn't sound as dynamic as DAC3. And then of course the high end. It clearly extends more with DAC3. It measures a flat frequency response which might explain it to some extent. But anyway, now the cymbals were much more prominent on many tracks I tried. Now this might sound like very positive thing but to me it always isn't. I have now got used to the easy sound with not that extended high end with my previous DACs. Now when I can truly hear the energy of the highs, it can get annoying every now and then. My ProAc speakers are extremely revealing and fast sounding speakers so they will play everything that comes out of DAC3. This makes me uncomfortable every now and then. The amount of details and separation is so insane that it doesn't always sound good. Changing from my silver IC cable to copper cable helped this a lot though. Conclusion: DAC3 sounds slightly more hifi with all the details, separation etc. but at the same time it doesn't sound harsh or anything else like that which usually comes with details and extended highs, when we're talking about some lower priced DACs. DAC3 still keeps things musical. I would pair this DAC with setup that is slightly on the warm side. DAC19Mk3's sound signature is on the warm side of neutral. It's very easy and fun to listen to and definitely a great DAC. Extremely good value for the money. I still haven't decided between the two. I'm waiting to receive my new speaker cables from Enigma Audio and only after that I'll make my final decision.

Which digital filter were you using in your DAC19Mk3 during this comparison; PMD100 (mode A) or DF1704 (mode B)? The consensus seems to be that mode "B" has more extended highs which would make it less warmer than mode "A" IMO.

 

[slim.a]

Vlach,
I believe Patu did his comparisons with mode A.
As for me, it happened that I did another A/B comparisons yesterday to test with my new Artisan Cables Ultimate Silver Dream interconnect. And once again, I reached the same conclusions :
Mode A is warmer almost tube like. It lets you focus on the sentiment conveyed by the performance rather than the small details.
Mode B is more precise, more analytical (but not in a bad way). It has more extended highs and more bass slam. It is also more detailed oriented and the perceived soundstage is bigger and airier.
Both modes are "analog" sounding (no digital harshness). So preferring one mode over another is a matter of taste and system synergy. You should try both of them if you intend to buy the dac.
I hope it was a helpful comparison.

 

[slim.a]

I updated my review with the following :

Part II (update October 09) :

Part II was done using this chain as a reference :

Foobar 0.8.3 > Kernel Streaming > M2Tech hiFace BNC > Stereovox XV2 > Audio-gd DAC-19mk3 > Artisan Cables "Ultimate Silver Dream" > Audio-GD C-2C (w/ upgraded pot) > Artisan Cables "Silver Dream" > Sennheiser HD-650


Digital Filter : Mode A vs Mode B

Mode A :
The sound is tubey like, charming and there is more "body" to the music. When listening to Diana Krall or Norah Jones voices, it is just mesmerizing.
The energy is however centered in the midrange, both frequency extremes are slightly rolled off. Overall, there is a slight loss in resolution and airiness that makes classical less involving than mode B.
The Mode A seems to be slower on transients (the attack of the notes are masked) but the decays are preserved and seem linger longer than with mode B.
The overall balance of the sound is natural but on the warm side of neutral.
I am sure there are kind of headphones and speaker systems where mode A could be a good match, but it is just "too much" of coloration with the sennheiser hd-650.

Mode B :
The main differences with mode A : Mode B has better resolution, better bass (tighter and deeper), more extended highs, better instrument separation and more clarity. The soundstage seems also "airier". These qualities make listening to classical music quite enjoyable. Mode B is "faster" in transients compared to Mode A which gives the illusion of better dynamics.
The downside of mode B is that it is sometimes "too" revealing in the highs especially when it is paired with the Sobek digital cable but I don't think it is due to the DF1704 module since it is smooth sounding when it is paired with the Belden BNC cable or the Stereovox XV2.
The sound with mode B could be described as "monitor" like but not in a bad way.

Conclusion on Mode A vs. Mode B :
While I prefer the mode B (DF1704) on my system, there is no good or bad digital filter here. Both of them are excellent and it is like comparing a good tube amp vs a good solid state amp.
Mode A focuses on conveying the emotions behind the music while Mode B is more detail oriented and with better extension at the frequency extremes. Since the additional digital module costs only $30, I highly recommend that any buyer try both of them on their system.


Transport and digital cable :

A perfect DAC should not be affected by the quality of the transport as long as the transport is "bit-perfect", however it seems that allDACs are affected to different degrees by the quality of the transport.
Since, the dac19mk-3 has no reclocking or ASRC, it is affected a lot by the quality of the transport and the digital cable. However, the digital section seems to be designed well enough to benefit from a low jitter source without adding more jitter (the DIR9001 is given for 40ps for instance).
This doesn't mean that it sounds bad with a jittery source. It still sounds better than all my other dacs even with its usb input. However, to extract the best performance from it, the dac-19mk3 should be use with a good transport and digital cable. In my case, the best combination that I have found after many trials is the m2techHiface with the Stereovox XV2 BNC cable.
For those who might be interested, I wrote a comparison of various usb to spdif converters here.

Vibration control/Component feet :

I know that vibration control is a "sensitive" subject but I found that it can impact a lot the sound of the dac in my experience. Also, if done right, vibration/resonance control can improve the sound of a component without drawbacks. Since, I cannot afford a Monaco GrandPrix Rack, a Solid Tech Rack or a Finite Elements rack (to name a few). I bought a cheap E&T rack (see picutre of my system attached) and put my dac and headphone amp on sandboxes which are the most cost effective way to suppress vibration that I could find.

Specifically with the dac-19mk3, I have tried a few ways cones/feet to replace the stock plastic ones : Vibarpod cones, Brass cones, and Herbie's Audio Tenderfoot. All the three provide improvements but the vibracones are a little dull sounding, the brass cones are a little hard sounding and the Tenderfoot give the best balance between resolution and naturalness of sound.

Power cords :

Power cords can definitely alter the tonal balance and resolution of the dac. I settled for quite some time now on the Hifi Cables & Cie PowertransPlus (for both my dac and head amp) which seems to have a great synergy with all 4 audio-gd units I tried them with. The audio-gd house signature is slightly on the warm side of neutral and those power cords "wake them up".
It is also important to check the phase (direction) of how the power cords are plugged if you have schucko plugs (or reversible plugs) on your mains multiplier. There is apparently an in phase and out of phase in all transformers and the effects are slightly audible in the soundstage and forwardness of the sound.


Analog interconnects :

The DAC-19mk3 is only as good as your interconnects. Only a high quality interconnect can do justice to this DAC.
I have tried many budget interconnects that are usually recommended such as : Kimber PBJ, DH-Labs Silver Sonics BL1, Sharkwire (the one sold by Audio-gd). However, none of them do justice to the dac-19mk3. You have to step up to something like the Hifi Cables Khnoum or the Artisan Cables Ultimate Silver Dream Interconnect to really do justice to the DAC-19mK3. With the Kimber PBJ or the DH-Labs BL1 there is a definite loss in resolution and extension at the frequency extremes. They also have a "digital" sound that alters the superb tonal qualities of the DAC.

In my system I have found 2 very good performing interconnects : the Hifi Cables& Cie Khnoum (French brand) and the Artisan Cables Ultimate Silver Dream interconnects. Unfortunately there is no secret here both of them cost more than 200€ for a pair of 0.5meter interconnect.
The Khnoum was my reference cable for some time now, all the other cables I tried during that period could not approach its performance level. It has the best resolution of any cable I tried in my system and has a very low noise floor. It was until I listened to the Artisan Silver Dream cable that I was able to discern its sonic faults.
The Artisan Silver Dream Cable has a slightly wider and much deeper soundstage, better separation of sounds, and a more natural tonal balance.
Anyway, the choice between them is a matter of taste between the bold sounding Khnoum cable and the more relaxed and natural sounding Ultimate Silver Dream. There was a review by 6 moons of the Silver dream interconnects (which is a lesser version of the Ultimate silver dream that I bought) in which the reviewer compared them to the Kimber Select KS-1030 silver (£1300) and found that they performed at the same level.

To cut it short, the dac-19mk3 has to be used with high quality interconnects (and head amp) to benefit from its true potential. If it sounds warm, muddy or edgy it is probably the sonic signature of the interconnects.


Conclusion :

I was totally blown away by the quality of the DAC when I first listened to it and I am still blown away each time I listen to it. It gives you tremendous resolution while remaining natural and free from digital harshness that manyDACs and CD players are showing. The designers of the EMU 0404 usb should give it a listen, true High resolution does not mean sterile, dry and edgy. True high resolution brings you closer to the original event. I am sure there are betterDACs out there but I never thought I could obtain such a combination between high resolution and "analog" sounding at at such a price. In fact, I thought for a long time that once, you have a "clean" sounding and measuringdac such as the emu 0404 usb, you would have to pay a lot to get marginal improvements. But I was happy (and surprised) to find out that the dac-19mk3 offered a better performance per $ invested compared to my previous upgrades.



Part III :

You can find RMAA results for the dac19mk3 here and the comparison with the EMU 0404 usb here

Patu made an interesting comparison with the Bel Canto DAC 3 here.

Regal impressions after 3 days here

JulioCat comparison with DACMagic here

I will try to keep this part updated, so do not hesitate to remind me if I miss a post or comment that you would like me to include in this part.

 

[vlach]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slim.a /img/forum/go_quote.gif Vlach, I believe Patu did his comparisons with mode A. As for me, it happened that I did another A/B comparisons yesterday to test with my new Artisan Cables Ultimate Silver Dream interconnect. And once again, I reached the same conclusions : Mode A is warmer almost tube like. It lets you focus on the sentiment conveyed by the performance rather than the small details. Mode B is more precise, more analytical (but not in a bad way). It has more extended highs and more bass slam. It is also more detailed oriented and the perceived soundstage is bigger and airier. Both modes are "analog" sounding (no digital harshness). So preferring one mode over another is a matter of taste and system synergy. You should try both of them if you intend to buy the dac. I hope it was a helpful comparison.

It is very helpful indeed. Patu's results was the only reason i was holding back on a purchase because he described the DAC as warm (which often equates to darkness). I much prefer detail, clarity & speed, hence i feel better knowing there is a mode B to suit me needs. Thanks again for the excellent and in depth review!

 

[Patu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vlach /img/forum/go_quote.gif It is very helpful indeed. Patu's results was the only reason i was holding back on a purchase because he described the DAC as warm (which often equates to darkness). I much prefer detail, clarity & speed, hence i feel better knowing there is a mode B to suit me needs. Thanks again for the excellent and in depth review!

DAC19Mk3 with Mode A is just slightly on the warm side. Mostly it offers neutral sound with a touch of "pleasantness". Bel Canto DAC3 was extremely neutral and truthful for the recording. I still think and know that DAC3 is a better DAC but it would've needed some modification for the rest of my equipment chain. I wasn't up to that right now so I decided to stick with DAC19Mk3. I sold my DAC3 few weeks ago.

I still haven't tried Mode B. I opened the package and checked out that there actually is Mode B included. Yep, there it was.

slim.a:

Is it easy to switch the filter boards? Do I just have to pull out the Mode A board and press the Mode B board in there? I might just give it a try in near future.