[Argo Duck]

(I just posted these impressions in the Decware appreciation thread - so yeah I'm cross-posting - sorry to those following both

. Any further comparisons I'll keep to this thread).
 
I got a clear couple of hours two days ago to compare Lyr & Taboo directly (both amps set to 80dBA with pink noise; two of my std review tracks).

I started with the Lyr in stock 6BZ7. Both tracks sounded really good. At that point I thought this is a pretty high bar for Taboo.

Then the Taboo (stock except for a NOS Tung Sol 12AU7 substituted for the JJ 12AU7 driver). Heavens, what a difference! So much more information in the low-tuned bass guitar and accompanying vocal of the first test track; more presence and definition to hi-hats.

This particular track is a lightly instrumented and fairly sparse ballad. The next one (Rodrigo e Gabriela Hanuman) is a lot more busy. Whilst I didn't notice as much difference in attack as I expected, very apparent was a far more "full range" sound from the Taboo - everything evenly balanced, nothing 'artificially' forward. In contrast, the 6BZ7/Lyr was bottom-heavy and (maybe because of this) gave an impression of being muddled and slow.

This was a worthwhile finding for me. I had been starting to wonder if the Taboo might be a bit bottom-dominated (which I don't want). Not because it sounds like it is, but because of how "richly" it renders the bass and lower mids. I wondered what could be doing this.

I needn't have worried. It actually puts everything up there in pristine balance. I think my "bottom-dominated" impression is just that it's given me a lot more information in that area than I've had from (stock) Lyr or Concerto; hence I noticed it more.

It's obvious stock Lyr versus (near) stock Taboo is not a fair comparison. If/when I get time I'll repeat this with better Lyr tubes such as Siemens 6DJ8 and my faves the Matsu 6922.

 
Quote:

has anyone compared a decware taboo and a schiit lyr?

 

[Frank I]

Nice comparison. I have noticed that the Decware amps have great bass. The bass on the Taboo is tight deep and very controlled. Nothing sloppy about the presentation  of the Taboo. Glad others are now starting to appreciate the quality of Decware amps and more important the versatility of what you can do with them and best of all easy to find current production tubes and none are off the wall and obscure types.

 

[Llloyd]

Thanks for the comparison
 
I was curious about the lyr vs taboo.  The impression I seem to have of the Lyr is pretty similar to what you described as well.  It's nice to know that the taboo which i'm hoping to get soon is, as it should be, noticeably above the Lyr.

 

[Argo Duck]

Thanks Lloyd - OT, did you get to take a look at the Minimax vs Bifrost thread?
 
(And thanks Frank!!)

 

[Llloyd]

Yes!  I did get a chance.  If you're the one who sent me there, thanks a lot it was very very helpful.

 

[rational]

Thank you for the great review. Although, I now have to pinch pennies and obsessively check the classifieds for a used one. Those amps sure are gorgeous, I think they are far more aesthetically pleasing than the Woo stuff.

 

[shaunybaby]

Quote:

(I just posted these impressions in the Decware appreciation thread - so yeah I'm cross-posting - sorry to those following both

. Any further comparisons I'll keep to this thread).
 
I got a clear couple of hours two days ago to compare Lyr & Taboo directly (both amps set to 80dBA with pink noise; two of my std review tracks).

I started with the Lyr in stock 6BZ7. Both tracks sounded really good. At that point I thought this is a pretty high bar for Taboo.

Then the Taboo (stock except for a NOS Tung Sol 12AU7 substituted for the JJ 12AU7 driver). Heavens, what a difference! So much more information in the low-tuned bass guitar and accompanying vocal of the first test track; more presence and definition to hi-hats.

This particular track is a lightly instrumented and fairly sparse ballad. The next one (Rodrigo e Gabriela Hanuman) is a lot more busy. Whilst I didn't notice as much difference in attack as I expected, very apparent was a far more "full range" sound from the Taboo - everything evenly balanced, nothing 'artificially' forward. In contrast, the 6BZ7/Lyr was bottom-heavy and (maybe because of this) gave an impression of being muddled and slow.

This was a worthwhile finding for me. I had been starting to wonder if the Taboo might be a bit bottom-dominated (which I don't want). Not because it sounds like it is, but because of how "richly" it renders the bass and lower mids. I wondered what could be doing this.

I needn't have worried. It actually puts everything up there in pristine balance. I think my "bottom-dominated" impression is just that it's given me a lot more information in that area than I've had from (stock) Lyr or Concerto; hence I noticed it more.

It's obvious stock Lyr versus (near) stock Taboo is not a fair comparison. If/when I get time I'll repeat this with better Lyr tubes such as Siemens 6DJ8 and my faves the Matsu 6922.

 

 

Hello AiDee,thanks that was just what I was looking for this thread is making it more easy to save some money a side for this amp.
 
Quote:

Thank you for the great review. Although, I now have to pinch pennies and obsessively check the classifieds for a used one. Those amps sure are gorgeous, I think they are far more aesthetically pleasing than the Woo stuff.

Yep they sure are great looking I have the taboo and Zen Torri as my background and there they look real good

 

[Llloyd]

Hello.  I'm still having trouble seeing how a preamp really comes into play in increasing the dynamics of a headphone amplifier.  I've been trying to dig up as much info as I can on the subject, but I'm afraid I'll need someone to clarify for me why the signal from source to amp needs to be increased if the dac already gives a decent line level signal?  What is it about a preamp that can affect the sound quality this much?
 
I can understand a preamp with a power amplifier, but with an amp like the taboo I'm having trouble understanding where the benefit comes from.  Maybe someone can enlighten me.  I have to say that on a scientific level I don't really understand preamps very well either, and most of the information that I've read on the subject was extremely simple.  I would definitely get a CSP in the future if it made all that much of a difference, but I can't see how in theory the sound quality would be improved very much since a DAC is supposed to be very neutral, and then the amp increases that signal to the proper volume so how/why is it that a preamp can change the dynamics?

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

Hello.  I'm still having trouble seeing how a preamp really comes into play in increasing the dynamics of a headphone amplifier.  I've been trying to dig up as much info as I can on the subject, but I'm afraid I'll need someone to clarify for me why the signal from source to amp needs to be increased if the dac already gives a decent line level signal?  What is it about a preamp that can affect the sound quality this much?
 
I can understand a preamp with a power amplifier, but with an amp like the taboo I'm having trouble understanding where the benefit comes from.  Maybe someone can enlighten me.  I have to say that on a scientific level I don't really understand preamps very well either, and most of the information that I've read on the subject was extremely simple.  I would definitely get a CSP in the future if it made all that much of a difference, but I can't see how in theory the sound quality would be improved very much since a DAC is supposed to be very neutral, and then the amp increases that signal to the proper volume so how/why is it that a preamp can change the dynamics?

a  preamp will always be better than a volume control. I am  not a technical guy but the taboo was designed to be used mostly with the CSP2. Ask Steve Deckert and he can give you all the technical stuff but I can tell you I have tried them both ways and its in a completely different league with the CSP2. It is more musical and dynamics are in another category. it like going from a Stereophile Class C component to a Class A ranking the differences are that much. Technical stuff for me is never as important as to what I am hearing but Mr. Deckert will answer all those questions but do look at his web site and you will see the Taboo was designed with the CSP2 in mind.
 
 

 

[Argo Duck]

From a purely mathematical perspective @Llloyd's question has puzzled me too.
 
However, Frank's findings are obviously to be taken seriously and I suspect the answer lies in some form of electrical/electronic synergy between the two units.
 
Not necessarily anything mysterious - except to people like me who went to extremes to avoid the slightest electrical theory in their physics classes (duh!) 

 

[Llloyd]

Thanks for the tip frank.  Decware actually has a really impressive knowledge base.  Here's what I came up with.
 
 
 
http://hosted.comm100.com/knowledgebase/Article.aspx?siteId=81244&id=52

my goal was to have a type B that would remain a type B even in front of our amplifiers and be equally at home in front of any other brand amplifier as well.  And I had to make sure that our amplifier customers can justify it's cost by making it affordable.  The right preamp in front of an SE84C or SE84CS or even SE34I and TORII takes these amplifiers to a new level.  I say it's at least a 30% improvement across the board and the power and dynamics will seem to double.  It really is amazing to hear when you've listened to your amp all these years without one.  And considering that 80% of our amp customers fall into this camp, I can safely say they've yet to hear how good their amplifiers really are!  
 
A good preamp becomes an extension of the source enhancing it's dynamics and overall voltage swing as well as enhancing it's output impedance to more effortlessly drive difficult power amps.  A good preamp can extract detail and timbre that is otherwise hidden by these conditions.  A good preamp can add body and weight and size to a stereo image and improve the depth and palpability of the sound stage. A good preamp can make tiny speakers and or tiny amplifiers sound and perform as though they were bigger then they really are.  A good preamp can organize the presence in a recording to create several more layers to the music.  It can pull things apart and make recordings sound less like recordings and more like real music.

 

 

[Neogeo333]

Something similar happened to me not so long ago. I already had an Eastern Electric dac with volume control. Then brought the Avant pre from EE. I did a test to see which one sounded better. Dac to amp and then dac to pre and amp. Guess what, music sounded better through the pre. With the right pre the signal can become less mechanical and more musical. But what really got me was the HUGE soundstage when using the pre. With dac to amp it sounded thinner and bright. Or maybe those Telefunken 12ax7 smooth plate has magical pixie dust inside.

 

[shaunybaby]

has anybody heard the he-6 with the Taboo? how is it? can it be driven by the Taboo?

 

[Argo Duck]

Not just any preamp however. I tried my HFA Silver (a top New Zealand niche brand from the late 1980s) tube preamp with the Taboo. The HFA sounds really terrific with my speaker system - which easily beats my LCD2, T1 and Stax phones.
 
But HFA with Taboo was not a happy combination - detail and transparency was lost compared to EE direct. There may have been a touch more dynamics. I suspect the HFA/Taboo had mismatched impedance, obviously not a situation with CSP2/Taboo or eveidently Avant/Taboo.
 
Btw the EE was the source in these comparisons too.

 
Quote:

Something similar happened to me not so long ago. I already had an Eastern Electric dac with volume control. Then brought the Avant pre from EE. I did a test to see which one sounded better. Dac to amp and then dac to pre and amp. Guess what, music sounded better through the pre. With the right pre the signal can become less mechanical and more musical. But what really got me was the HUGE soundstage when using the pre. With dac to amp it sounded thinner and bright. Or maybe those Telefunken 12ax7 smooth plate has magical pixie dust inside.

 
 

 

[Neogeo333]

I meant to say that test was with speakers not phones.  If it wasnt for my neighbor I would listen more music through speakers but I only listen mostly at night.
 
Quote:

Not just any preamp however. I tried my HFA Silver (a top New Zealand niche brand from the late 1980s) tube preamp with the Taboo. The HFA sounds really terrific with my speaker system - which easily beats my LCD2, T1 and Stax phones.
 
But HFA with Taboo was not a happy combination - detail and transparency was lost compared to EE direct. There may have been a touch more dynamics. I suspect the HFA/Taboo had mismatched impedance, obviously not a situation with CSP2/Taboo or eveidently Avant/Taboo.
 
Btw the EE was the source in these comparisons too.