[antonyfirst]

I've listened deeply to the E500 and ER4P, and I've finally decided to do an exhaustive comparison between the two. First of all, sorry if my english won't be perfect.

Source: Kenwood HD20GA7, Kenwood HD10GB7 mp3 players
IEMs: d-JAYS, Etymotic ER4P, Shure E500

The Players
The Kenwood mp3 players are probably the best dap on the market. They are the only good alternative to carry a player+amp. They are rich of details, they have large soundstage and a warm, liquid tonal balance.
They cost a bloody lot of money (see audiocubes), but they are worh of it.

ER4P vs d-JAYS

I received the ER4P about two months ago, coming from the KSC75 and the D-Jays. The D-Jays are said to have a gradoish sound... I've never heard other headphones than IEMs (besides the KSC75), but I trust what Kramer told me.
I tried the ER4 with the triflanges and then with the Etymotic black foam tips, and I found that the foam gives to them a much more natural sound. My guess is that foam walls help the propagation of the low frequencies, but, more likely, the narrower tube of the triflanges is part of their problems.
The Shure Black Foam tips, besides, make the ER4 lose any kind of sibilance.
Switching forth and back between the d-Jays and the ER4 gave me the impression that the d-JAYS were veiled in comparison. The sound spectrum is also more compressed on the JAYS, while the unequalized ER4P are brighter in comparison, but have also deeper bass (I can bring it on with EQ).
The d-JAYS sound overall good (and very good for the price), but they have overpowering electric guitars that I don't like. Other people, like Kramer, like them ("snarling, in your face guitars"). The electric guitars are more detailed and much less distorted on the ER4P, and more relaxed. I like them more.
Also, the d-JAYS don't change much with equalizer. A fellow to whom I sold them, confirmed that they sound like Grados without deep bass.
I've read many posts saying that the Etys have cut transitories, but it isn't the case: it's only a matter of volume. I found that boosting the bass made them sound much less thin than people were saying. They are impressively detailed, making possible for me to hear whispers, or musicians touching their instruments.

The Shure E500

After getting used to the Etymotic, I wanted to know how much better could I get from them, and I bought a pair of Shure E500.
They are very warm. I didn't find difficult to get used to them. While I find the d-JAYS veiled coming from the Etymotic, this isn't the case for the E500. They are very detailed, but they have a much fuller tonal balance and warmer sound. I'd dare say they are lush.
With the Kenwood players I've used, they hiss much more than the ER4P.
Using the same players, their soundstage is better than the ER4 (but not wider). The instruments occupy more places in the space where you hear the music.

Etymotic ER4P vs Shure E500

Basically, after having tried the E500 I couldn't go back to the Etymotic. The E500 are different, but I liked them immediately.
I had to try some equalizer settings with the ER4 to bring out a sound signature closer to the E500.
Eventually, I've managed to do that with the little HD10GB7 (better than the HD20): a tighter tonal balance compared to the Shures, but much more detailed.
The "Rock" preset of the Kenwood HD10GB7 synergizes incredibly well with the ER4, making them sound much warmer. I'd dare saying "tubey", but I've never listened to a tube amp. What I've found incredible is how the equalization made the Etys sound so realistic, with good, resonating bass and sparkling highs. The overall sound is sweet, and hearing violins, guitars, voices and noises (like the bump of shoes or a closing door in a track) is pure bliss. They all sound like they are being played from a vinyl. For exemple, I can hear the violin being played, but also being touched while playing. And the same for piano, guitar... it's like having not only sound, but "touch+sound".

This overall sounds sweet and resonating, not cold like it was without using the equalizer.
Instrument separation is awesome (obviously, talking about the ER4P).

My guess is that the ER4 was originally a headphone that needed to be used with large amps, so that people could tune the sound at their will, thus shaping the response of the Etymotic.
The etymotic are not simple to drive by mp3 players, and the classic Ety sound, cold, analytical isn't what was originally intended for them. It's a matter of how good the equalizer (or the amp) is.

Conclusions

When buying the E500, people have a great sound out of the box. They are already coloured to sound great. The E500's tonal balance can't be shaped like I can do with the Etys.
The ER4, instead, have to be shaped properly to sound like they are intended to, but once you do that, they are heaven.
In fact, I needed to hear the E500 to understand what to ask to my ER4, and now I've found their perfect balance.
I hope you enjoyed my comparison. If you have any questions, feel free to ask them.

 

[Assorted]

Nice review, would you say the ER4Ps would benefit more/exceed the E500 when amped?

 

[mrarroyo]

Very nice review. I personally prefer the ER4S to the ER4P even when you use th P to S adapter on the ER4P.

 

[antonyfirst]

I've not listened to any amps (though I'd love if someone loaned to me an iMod + amp), but I would say: definetely so. The ER4 give me the impression that they can grow much more than the E500.
To use an analogy, the Etys are like an empty box that can be filled with more and more goodness, while the E500 have their own goodness, and don't change much their sound signature (whatever eq settings I use with them).

 

[antonyfirst]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very nice review. I personally prefer the ER4S to the ER4P even when you use th P to S adapter on the ER4P.

Actually I'd use the P to S adapter with an amp. With my Kenwood HD10GB7 it would make them sound worse, because it's an impedance too high to be driven from an unamped dap. For exemple, with the P/S adapter I have the impression that the soundstage gets worse (less currents).

 

[george_7777]

Hello,

I've just got a hd20ga7 and I'm about to get a good iem, to replace the marsmallows I'm using now. Ety's where in my list, but I wasn't sure about which one to order er-4s, er-4p with adaptor to s ? What can you tell from your experience??

Thanks

 

[SONGsanmanwah]

Great review. I like the fact that you actually own two model of Kenwood players and found them to have different synergy with the same phones. I mean it's a surprise but it also makes perfect sense. I'm not much of an EQ fan myself but think I'll try some because of what you wrote here!

 

[antonyfirst]

Quote:

Originally Posted by george_7777 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hello, I've just got a hd20ga7 and I'm about to get a good iem, to replace the marsmallows I'm using now. Ety's where in my list, but I wasn't sure about which one to order er-4s, er-4p with adaptor to s ? What can you tell from your experience?? Thanks

Hi. Take the ER4P. The ER4S have too much impedance, and that will result in too little currents, that result in a compressed soundstage.

To Songsanmanwah: Thanks! The HD10GB7 sounds better. It has a larger soundstage, and a better custom EQ.

 

[ClieOS]

This just make me want to get a pair of 4P more and more

Thanks for the review btw!

 

[PeterDLai]

I've always thought about the Etymotic ER-4, but its "stick-out-of-the-ear" appearance turns me off.

 

[george_7777]

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfirst /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi. Take the ER4P. The ER4S have too much impedance, and that will result in too little currents, that result in a compressed soundstage.

Thanks for your reply.

I was thinking that maybe ER4S's higher impedance is going to lower the reported little hiss you get from the kenwood when nothing's playing (not a big problem anyway). Did you find out a way to fix or minimize that hiss or maybe you've just learnt to live with it (sure I can

)

A bit OT: have you been using custom EQ of hd20ga7? What settings?

 

[Raphael]

To be honest, I'm going to have to say to go with the Shures. I'm a huge Ety fan, and after buying them, I haven't looked back. But they are phones that will not warm up to your ears. Believe me, I've been using them for over 2 years. I've used the er6i for a good year and a half, sold that and currently using the er4s. The etys are amazing headphones, and I'm yet to run across anything I like better. But if you're going with the Etymotics, you have to keep in mind that they are like very exquisite oysters. If you make them well, they are absolutely delicious. But if prepared wrong, they will make you very sick.

In simpler words, if you're going to buy Etymotics, you better have a damn good source and a damn good headphone amp in your arsenal. Otherwise, you may be very disappointed. Then you will start understanding what everyone means when they say the etys sound thin, cold and metallic. But with the proper setup, they will put you in audio bliss. Etymotic has made portable versions of their earphones, but they failed imho. Etys were not made for portable DAPs. Either have a very good source (i.e. iMod, DAP feeding digital to dedicated DAC etc.), or you will find more comfort from the Shures.

 

[Claus-DK]

I like your rewiew, but I do not agree that the shures don't need EQ, maybe it is the player I use (Ipod), I always use "Treble boost" for my e500 it helps a lot with the treble roll off, to me they sound to dark without EQ..

If you yet have to try amping the e500 you schould try it, it really brings them to life..I use a X1 and it makes the bass more "crisp" and also helps with the roll off...

Unfortunately I think that the e500 is kind of boring to listen to in the long run, they are very good phones, but a bit boring especially without an amp..

And now I really do NEED to try a pair of ety's...

Thanks

 

[antonyfirst]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raphael /img/forum/go_quote.gif To be honest, I'm going to have to say to go with the Shures. I'm a huge Ety fan, and after buying them, I haven't looked back. But they are phones that will not warm up to your ears. Believe me, I've been using them for over 2 years. I've used the er6i for a good year and a half, sold that and currently using the er4s. The etys are amazing headphones, and I'm yet to run across anything I like better. But if you're going with the Etymotics, you have to keep in mind that they are like very exquisite oysters. If you make them well, they are absolutely delicious. But if prepared wrong, they will make you very sick. In simpler words, if you're going to buy Etymotics, you better have a damn good source and a damn good headphone amp in your arsenal. Otherwise, you may be very disappointed. Then you will start understanding what everyone means when they say the etys sound thin, cold and metallic. But with the proper setup, they will put you in audio bliss. Etymotic has made portable versions of their earphones, but they failed imho. Etys were not made for portable DAPs. Either have a very good source (i.e. iMod, DAP feeding digital to dedicated DAC etc.), or you will find more comfort from the Shures.

I can't hep but agree. It's what I've said also in my review: the Etys have more potential than the Shure, but they can also sound bad, if paired with poor source. The Kenwood is a good one, iMod+amp is another good source.

The ER4P don't hiss much with Kenwood players, the slight hiss is absolutely tolearable, even in quite environments. The E500, instead, hiss noticeably in quiet environments.

George: Custom EQ on the HD20GA7 is very simple. I used to raise the bass to 180 Hz, +2. But you should try also the preset called Rock: I no longer have the HD20GA7, but "Rock" on the HD10GB7, well... rocks.

I don't know if these presets sound the same on both players, though.

I know that the Kenwood HD10GB7 and HD30GB9 have been selling also with rebranded Etymotic ER6i, so some presets could really be dedicated to make the Etymotic iems shine.

 

[antonyfirst]

Claus: if you have a GOOD source, you should definetely try the ER4. Rember that you'll have to play with EQ/amp a bit in order to get the right sound signature.
Also, don't forget to use the Shure black foam tips, that cancel all the sibilance on the ER4.