Retirement for the Chaintech AV-710

[Camaro69]

It comes a time in every sound cards life where it loses it's shine, out of it's prime.

Vista x64 has made this a nightmare. I have yet to get this card properly working. I had it to work but with much headaches. Now it's not being recognized anymore so it's time for me to move on. I'm stuck with onboard right now, but at least it has optical out.

Any recommendations? I would be looking for a Vista x64 "friendly" sound card. Something that can feed my H/K amp & Boston speakers along with my headphones. I listen to music as well as game. I've been a out of touch if there is any alternatives to the X-fi series from Creative, but if there isn't... I wouldn't fuss if I had to settle.

 

[Oink1]

Shame - it's a great card

Good luck finding an alternative buddy.

 

[MadMan007]

What are you looking for as far as outputs? Do you need good analog out or just a decent card with digital out?

 

[Camaro69]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMan007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What are you looking for as far as outputs? Do you need good analog out or just a decent card with digital out?

A decent card with digital out. Since my headphones go through my amp, I am in no need for amped analog outs. 70% music 30% games.

 

[MadMan007]

Need more details on your computer then but you may just want to try the onboard sound first if it has the correct digital output, it may work well enough for you.

What expansion slots do you have available (PCI or PCIe) and do you have onboard sound at all and just turned off or none at all?

 

[obobskivich]

well, tbh, no onboard sound will get close to the quality of the AV-710, sorry to say, but its still got quite a way to go

you might look at the HT Omega Claro (yeah, I know, 8x the price just feels great) or Asus Xonar bards, I'd peek at the Xonar HDAV, Claro Halo, or X-Fi Prelude (I like my X-Fi Prelude, but I also game quite a bit, and use Windows XP, which all contribute and benefit the X-Fi software, with Vista, I'd take Xonar any day of the week)

 

[MadMan007]

I guess I forgot where I was posting

I simply suggested *trying* the onboard because he may already have it and more importatnly since he's using a digital output the poor analog out of most onboard sound might not be a factor. At the very least in the meantime it might be an option.

For gaming X-Fi chips are still at the top, even in Vista, but you have to use the ALchemy software. With no special considerations the X-Fi Prelude is the easy recommendation for doing everything well. I have a Xonar DX and while in theory Asus's EAX wrapper sounds nice I've found that it does not allow EAX in all games, the older they are the more likely you can't enable EAX, the games claim that 'the soundcard does not support EAX' so the Prelude or another X-Fi card is still the more compatible option. Going forward that won't matter as much as more games include OpenAL support.

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMan007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess I forgot where I was posting I simply suggested *trying* the onboard because he may already have it and more importatnly since he's using a digital output the poor analog out of most onboard sound might not be a factor. At the very least in the meantime it might be an option. For gaming X-Fi chips are still at the top, even in Vista, but you have to use the ALchemy software. With no special considerations the X-Fi Prelude is the easy recommendation for doing everything well. I have a Xonar DX and while in theory Asus's EAX wrapper sounds nice I've found that it does not allow EAX in all games, the older they are the more likely you can't enable EAX, the games claim that 'the soundcard does not support EAX' so the Prelude or another X-Fi card is still the more compatible option. Going forward that won't matter as much as more games include OpenAL support.

you won't get any empathy out of me with a post like that, I do agree that some members will spend more than others consider prudent, especially in the PC arena, my point isn't that all onboard is horrible, my point is that crappy digital sources == crappy sources, and don't even start with the "ITS DIGITAL IT CANT MATTER" garbage, because thats also bunk (ever hear of clock jitter? not to mention, just because its sending out digitally, doesn't mean its internal processing is neccisarily what you want)

personally, I like my X-Fi Prelude, however I realize in terms of pure SQ, it is nowhere near the top of the line, especially for discrete cards, its a very good balance, and for its price, an excellent buy, the AV-710 is a great card as well, my thinking is, if he's replacing it, why not upgrade as well, I'm sure the digital onboard would work just fine, but it won't really be an upgrade, just a potential sidegrade (or potential downgrade)

which is why I suggested HT Omega, Asus, and lastly Auzen, however since gaming wasn't listed high up on his priorities, the Xonar will be more than capable of satisfying his needs, another option (come to think of it) would be the Onkyo card, if you really like the VIA chipset, as the Onkyo is basically a "maxed out" implementation of Envy, contrasted to the HT Omega which relies on a C-Media processor and the Asus which relies on a modified variant of the same chip (which, in its own right, is amazing, but the Envy shouldn't be overlooked just because of its age)

 

[MadMan007]

That's perfect because I don't post on forums to get empathy

I merely suggested *trying* the onboard, if only temporarily, but I believe I made clear that it's not going to compare to other cards for gaming. I don't assume that it's good or bad unlike you. There's no harm in trying something is there? Nor did I ever say that it would compare to other cards for audio use. So there was no need to put words in my mouth and go all audio-snooty on me with a lecture.

Now that that's over, for the OP you had an AV-710 for gaming so worrying about gaming might not matter unless you're looking to upgrade that area. I already wrote my impression of the gaming benefits of various cards from personal experience. The only other thing to add to that is that for gaming use the cards other than X-Fi based or a Xonar will probably be about the same as the AV-710 in capabilities.

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMan007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's perfect because I don't post on forums to get empathy I merely suggested *trying* the onboard, if only temporarily, but I believe I made clear that it's not going to compare to other cards for gaming. I don't assume that it's good or bad unlike you. There's no harm in trying something is there? Nor did I ever say that it would compare to other cards for audio use. So there was no need to put words in my mouth and go all audio-snooty on me with a lecture. Now that that's over, for the OP you had an AV-710 for gaming so worrying about gaming might not matter unless you're looking to upgrade that area. I already wrote my impression of the gaming benefits of various cards from personal experience. The only other thing to add to that is that for gaming use the cards other than X-Fi based or a Xonar will probably be about the same as the AV-710 in capabilities.

you aren't going to get very far acting like my mother, except to get a top spot on my ignore list, because I don't play with people who don't play well with others

as far as the Xonar vs AV-710, the Xonar *should* vastly outperform it in terms of quality and abilities, as the Asus driver wrapper does work fairly well, especially in Vista, and OpenAL acceleration is top notch

take a look at some actual #'s, generally the Xonar D2 series will be on par with the X-Fi in gaming performance, and the other CMI8788 solutions are a bit behind, while Envy24 is always in last place, because it doesn't really provide H/W acceleration for 3D sound (although, with OpenAL its probably not bad at all)

 

[MadMan007]

I'm not looking to get...anywhere. You lectured me rudely for no reason imo, and I replied in a perfectly civilized manner saying essentially 'no harm in trying' and 'keep an open mind,' if you can tell me what permenent harm there might in trying be I'd be happy to retract my statements. I think it's great if your mother is perfectly civilized and open-minded as well

As for the Xonar and games, I have one (Xonar DX) and I've tried all different drivers. You said 'should' so I must assume you don't have first-hand use knowledge. The EAX wrapper is not 100% compatible under Vista (and therefore probably under XP since it's driver-based) for older EAX games I can guarantee you and I just thought the OP should know that. Given that, it has the potential to be much better than the AV-710 for gaming but it's not going to be as good as an X-fi based card for games, those things will matter less going forward as games use OpenAL but it's true for games that don't nonetheless. If you've got a link to some 'actual numbers' that can fix the wrapper drivers to work in older EAX games I'd be interested

if not it's simply not on par if it can't enable EAX in games that sold quite well.

Anyhow this argument is silly, the OP hasn't even replied yet

We are all here to help each other, maybe just be nicer to people who make harmless suggestions that don't precisely match your own and you won't need to have an ignore list.

 

[Camaro69]

I appreciate all of the suggestions, but they may be a bit out of my price league. While I wouldn't mind upgrading, I'd like to limit myself to less than $100. I got a little sticker shock looking at these suggestions since I paid less than $40 for my AV-710.

Would you guys happen to know of anything south of $100?

If only the envy drivers for the card weren't so buggy and almost useless in Vista x64.

 

[Ben Diss]

I'm going to try a cheap Audigy card's digital out for music only. I already have an X-Fi for gaming, but I want a dedicated digital output for music while I work. I tried a USB converter but the one I have sux.

It comes in a couple of days. I'll post back if it outputs as clean a signal as the X-Fi.

(This is PCI under WinXP.)

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camaro69 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I appreciate all of the suggestions, but they may be a bit out of my price league. While I wouldn't mind upgrading, I'd like to limit myself to less than $100. I got a little sticker shock looking at these suggestions since I paid less than $40 for my AV-710. Would you guys happen to know of anything south of $100? If only the envy drivers for the card weren't so buggy and almost useless in Vista x64.

I hear that, at $21.99 before it was pulled from the market (or did it hit $15?) looking at replacements/upgrades in the $170 range is probably shocking, then again, that should tell you about the hardware you've got

in the ~$100 range, theres the basic X-Fi, which is around $130 last I looked, theres also the Asus Xonar DX, and Auzen's X-Cinema or whatever its called (CMI8780 iirc), all three of which are good boards, and at least two of which will have good Vista driver support (note, I said good, not excellent)

might also take a peek at some USB D/A boxes, Firestone makes one for ~$120, and Silverstone (yes, the case and PSU company) has one for ~$90

 

[Camaro69]

Well I came down to these two cards:

Asus Xonar DX and Auzentech Prelude.

If my pending offer with the Prelude falls through, I think I'll go with the Xonar. It's cheaper and I won't question myself jumping $100+ for a sound card so it can actually work with Vista 64.

Well okay, I expect it to be superior over the AV-710, but you know...