Regular speaker wire does the job right?

[Kryogen]

I have an old amp that has spring type connects, and I've ordered the mission m72i speakers.

I guess an adequate choice would just be speaker wire. Should I get the big one, or the regular one? Difference?

Where do I get that anyway?

 

[HiGHFLYiN9]

For $169 speakers I wouldn't invest in anything more expensive than the standard 16 gauge lamp cord, places that sell it include: Home Depot, Radio Shack, Sears, BJs, Best Buy, Circuit City to name a few.

 

[Kryogen]

Thanks, that's what I though.

 

[rickcr42]

and for something a bit different or cheapo you could give a twisted pair of individual wires from CAT-5 a try or even twisted pair #18 slid copper magnet wire.

the limitng factor in your case is those ungodly spring clips which the manufacturers insist on pushing on us but are about the worst speaker-amp interface civilised man has ever come up with.The joke is on us but i for one am not laughing
Whoever invented them should be taken out back and beat with a box of "spring clips" until he cries uncle,then put to work deigning something better but just as cheap to make (ever hear of barrier strips ?)

I think the only way they made it past the drawing board is somepone married up.............

 

[Kryogen]

No point making something real cheap when 16 gauge wire costs nothing

Would it be worth it getting bigger wire? Like 14 or 12 gauge?

What's the problem with spring clips?

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

Would it be worth it getting bigger wire? Like 14 or 12 gauge? What's the problem with spring clips?

i have not yet seen the spring clip that can handle 12 guage or even 14 guage wire.there may be one but i have not seen it (and i avoid the spring clip like it had typhus if possible)

what is wrong with spring clips ? Nothing right about them even though they are used on just about every single piece of consumer level mid-fi gear !

the contact area integrity is the worst and not much of the actual cable is making a good contact.If you could see inside a spring clip you would wonder how they ever manage to pass 100watts without buring up in the process !

A high current connection they are not but we are stuck with them because some knucklehead decided that folks were too damn stupid to use the little screwdriver that used to come with receivers to crank down the speaker cable to the screw terminals or binding post .Or so dumb they would not buy speaker cables with banana plugs already attached for high current amp ease of set up so instead they came out with an audio nightmare-

"The Spring Clip"

Yes ladies and gentleman ! you can now attach your speakers without using a thought process ! Step right up while I demonstrate.

1-push the clip

2-insert the wire NO NOT TOO FAR !

3-release the clip

see how easy ? Is modern science not a truly amazing thing to behold ?


We even color coded the connections for you just in case you do not have the brains of an ice cube.We have already come to the conclusion you have no idea which end of a screwdriver goes to the screw .
And there is no need to worry about if it is a sound connection folks.It is all about the ease of use !


the old way of unscrew the terminal a bit,put a loop on the end of the wire or put a spade clip on it ,place this over the post, then screw the terminal down tight was just way too hard and far too many steps for our technically advanced society to handle.

Can you tell i hate the spring clip ?

Not a new thing :

http://www.head-fi.com/reviews/asl_uhc_rickcr42.html

 

[BRBJackson]

oops, see below

 

[BRBJackson]

Quote:

We even color coded the connections for you just in case you do not have the brains of an ice cube

HA! Good one Rick. BTW, I've seen worse. I just bought a cheapie surround sound rig for our 3rd backup-backup TV (yeah, I know...), and not only were the speakers/connections color-coded, it came with matching colored (i.e. green/green-black wire goes to green speaker; red/red-black wire to red speaker, etc.) hookup wire. just in case the consumer's 3 remaining brain cells decided not to communicate during the arduous install...

I weep for the future of this nation sometimes.

 

[Kryogen]

lol

 

[Mr.Radar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRBJackson HA! Good one Rick. BTW, I've seen worse. I just bought a cheapie surround sound rig for our 3rd backup-backup TV (yeah, I know...), and not only were the speakers/connections color-coded, it came with matching colored (i.e. green/green-black wire goes to green speaker; red/red-black wire to red speaker, etc.) hookup wire. just in case the consumer's 3 remaining brain cells decided not to communicate during the arduous install... I weep for the future of this nation sometimes.

Hey, was that made by DMTech? Our DMTech HTiB system (which came free with our cell phone) has exactly the same system. Also, it came set to PAL and Region 2, I had to go find a region hack to get it to play our DVDs (which are all Region 1, except for a few counterfeit ones my dad got when he was in Thailand).

 

[MadMonky]

Wow, you can definately have trust in the quality of a HTiB that comes with a cell phone. What were the other free gift options, an alarm clock and a handheld fan?

 

[Mr.PD]

Okay, I'm going to go against Rick this time.
I have one of those Denon one box CD player receiver thingys. It's small for shelf use. It came with a pair of little Mission speakers and those awful spring clamps on the back of the receiver. I first used the included 18 or 20 gauge wire. For about 15 minutes. Then I put in some Monster 16 gauge wire and Monster pin wire ends. The gold pins are much better than bare wire for the reasons the Rick mentioned (little to no contact area). Big improvement in sound was observed. I then changed the room around and needed 25 feet of wire to reach the speakers. I got some Kimber in wall bulk wire which uses two conductors of different size for each connection. I again used the pins on the receiver side. The Missions have small binding posts. I think I got another improvement in sound, but it is debatable.
The reason I say to go with some pins for those spring clamps is that gold pins do not oxidize like the copper wire will. You don't have much contact area to begin with and you will loose all of it in a short time. The Monster twist on pins barely fit,and only in the little groove that is machined in to them. The Monster wire I found once and haven't found again. It is copper and silver colored wire twisted together. I think it was a home theater wire kit or something like that. It sounds good for Monster stuff.

edit; I think the Denon has guillotine clips, rather than simple spring clips. You gotta push the red plastic thing down hard to snap them into place, and flip it up to unhook the wires. Yeah, they are color coded red and black, and the wire that came with it was red and black.

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

Okay, I'm going to go against Rick this time.

easy man,there be bears in them thar woods !

Quote:

I first used the included 18 or 20 gauge wire. For about 15 minutes. Then I put in some Monster 16 gauge wire and Monster pin wire ends. The gold pins are much better than bare wire for the reasons the Rick mentioned (little to no contact area). Big improvement in sound was observed. I then changed the room around and needed 25 feet of wire to reach the speakers. I got some Kimber in wall bulk wire which uses two conductors of different size for each connection. I again used the pins on the receiver side. The Missions have small binding posts. I think I got another improvement in sound, but it is debatable.

Well how you have better sound with even less speaker to connector contact area is an amazing thing.The P.O.S. "springclip" has a flat piece of unknown solid metal,lord knows what it is and what the electrical characteristics of it are,with a very small area of actual wire/clip contact and reduced the contact area even more when you mated it to a solid metal clip.
And while I am in the "least metal" camp when it comes to audio connections I also like my high current or power connnections to have some backbone,some guts,some damn "get a grip on yourself" or for me they sent a boy to do a mans job.
The way the clip works if you think about it is the metal contact is a sliding mechanism where one section is stationary and the other slides up to allow entry and then back down to "lock" the cable in place.Problem is there is no LOCK involved and if your fingers were small enough to get them in the hole and you "locked" the plunger you would not even feel it ! A more "girly" connection there never was (gonna take a beatin' for that one

).What allows for it to even have any shot at passing a signal is that if the speaker wire guage is small (man/boy again) and the wire itself soft (girly again

) the "mashing down" clip slides over the wire causing it to also slide up an make contact with the fixed metal are of the clip behind the movung part.So in effect there is a large area of contact just a p*ss poor one there being no guts to this contact because the clip has no b*lls.
you just took the only workable part of the clip and tossed it in the trash and reduced the contact area to just two points and those weak at best.
Do the gold pins wiggle in the clip ? In my experience they ALWAYS wiggle side to side with way too much ease .And did you get a good feeling once they were inserted ?
You know,that "now i can rest easy" feeling you get when you are totally comfortable with the results.Or did you have a feeling,something in the back of your mind that said "these babies seem a bit loose.i hope they don't fall out" thing going on.

I know,they sound better and if true and it works for yoy cool,but i still think we need a National movement to ban the spring clip-to Outlaw the manufacture or the mportation of any pice of gear that has thses in evidence.
Stiff fines or jail time is my thought.

Then when that is dealt with to my satisfaction we can go after the "gold pin" ! without the spring clip what other use could there possibly be ?
This was for those folks so lame they were not happy with the ease of use the spring clip brought,noooooo,but just in case they were so inept and could not get a handle on the concpt of getting ALL the strands of the speaker wire INTO THE HOLE and ended up with shorts across the amplifier output as a result of the wires touching.
I/WE suffer because consumers so lame they can not do a simple "strip the wire,put the wire on the terminal,now screw it down"

Unfrikkin beleivable ! The damn lowest common denominator thing again.The "there may be a toatal idiot buying this" mentality means we all suffer the fools and the joke is on us.

enjoy you springclips man,by the time i take it to capital hill the only clips you will see will be in a museum,at least that is my hope

#1 on ricks personal hit list

 

[aeriyn]

I find speaker clips to be a pain in the arse to hook up. I find screw down terminals to be much easier, as you can SEE everything you're doing.

 

[Mr.PD]

Well Rick, I see your point about mashing the the wire and getting more contact area.
The pins fit the back of my Denon tight enough that they don't wiggle at all. The only thing they will do is rotate. And, since they are trapped by that little groove, they are actually more secure than the bare wire. I can't pull them out.
Yeah the sping clip (guillotine) sucks big time. I was shocked that a respected name like Denon would use them. In fact I don't have much respect for Denon since I found them on that piece.

My main concern is oxidation. Back in my youth, before I knew better I had bare wire connections on low grade equipment and after a few months the speakers stopped working. I found the copper wires had turned black losing all connection with the equipment. btw, I used the bare wire connection on the mission speakers because I didn't like the way anything else fit, but I treated the wires and posts with Pro Gold before tightening the binding posts with the best imitation of a rickster clamp down I could muster.