[HiFiHawaii808]

Where warm-neutral is concerned the A18S is kinda my first, second and third recommendation (especially if you're willing to go custom), so you having it already makes this more difficult haha

I think 3-4 sets is pretty much the most optimal a collection can be, and every time I do a clear-out I generally aim to end up with that many, as they're just enough to never really get bored, but also aren't so many that some of them end up collecting dust for weeks at a time.

My personal approach in choosing 3-4 sets is generally along the lines of one of each - Bright-Neutral // Neutral-Warm // W-shape // V-shape

The bright-neutral IEM is mostly for when I feel like a lighter signature that isn't as full as the other three, and here I'd recommend the Andromeda 2020 or maybe even something like the Campfire Ara - they're excellent monitors that I can just wear for hours with 0 fatigue of any kind, and they're also priced really well. I'll update this paragraph in a few weeks as there's another release around that price point that I've been testing and loving but can't disclose yet.

Neutral-Warm you have covered - both the VE8 and the A18S fit that bill, ranging from more neutral to more warm depending on module, what you're driving them with etc

W-shape - I absolutely love those personally as they provide an exaggerated, over-the-top experience without sacrificing midrange presence, technical performance and detail - top 2 recommendations here are the Noble Sultan (a little brighter) and MMR Thummim (a little warmer and crazier), with an honorable mention to the AAW Canary

V-shape - this is pretty much for when you need some fat bass in your life. I didn't own a V-shape until I received the Trinity recently, and I'm going to be getting that as a custom because I've been finding it super fun and addicting. EE's Legend X can't not be mentioned here, and maybe something like the FiR M5 if you're into a more forward upper midrange

For classical specifically, I can't tell you myself as I don't really listen to any, but going off of @Wyville's recommendation - the DITA Dream XLS seems to be pretty godmode there

Hope this is of some help!

I appreciate the sound signature targets you are recommending. I wasn't thinking of it exactly like you presented. This gives me more clarity on creating a diversified portfolio of IEMs. Reminds me of how I balance a stock portfolio. I didn't know that the VE8 and a18s were so similar in sound signature. I really love the 18s, but since I am committed to the VE8, I am going to listen to that for a while to fully experience it. I feel badly for the dealer who let me demo the 18s. She actually called me yesterday about the 20% discount. Given that the VE8 and 18s are so similar, I'll have to tell her that I need to consider something else. Probably the Nio.

The Sultan was on my short list. As was the Legend X. The DITA Dream XLS has now hit my radar and I am going to look at it more closely. V-shaped sound signature is not my favorite, but I'll keep on open mind.

 

[mvvRAZ]

I appreciate the sound signature targets you are recommending. I wasn't thinking of it exactly like you presented. This gives me more clarity on creating a diversified portfolio of IEMs. Reminds me of how I balance a stock portfolio. I didn't know that the VE8 and a18s were so similar in sound signature. I really love the 18s, but since I am committed to the VE8, I am going to listen to that for a while to fully experience it. I feel badly for the dealer who let me demo the 18s. She actually called me yesterday about the 20% discount. Given that the VE8 and 18s are so similar, I'll have to tell her that I need to consider something else. Probably the Nio.

The Sultan was on my short list. As was the Legend X. The DITA Dream XLS has now hit my radar and I am going to look at it more closely. V-shaped sound signature is not my favorite, but I'll keep on open mind.

Oh I actually wouldn’t say that the two are especially similar - the VE8 is a lot thicker, with slower bass and overall a fair bit more warmth - they’re quite different but in a sense I find that they fill a similar niche

From vision ears I’d recommend the Elysium quite heavily - it’s actually the IEM that I’ve owned for the longest period of time now, over 1 year

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Like @mvvRAZ said, my current favourites for classical music are the DITA Dream XLS. They balance certain reference qualities with naturalness and a liquidity to the notes that I really like. The stage is very wide and layering and positional information are outstanding. The presentation is full of emotion, but not overly coloured, and it is very dynamic, picking out subtle tonal nuances with ease while scaling to grandness when the music calls for it.

A bit brighter and more technical would be the FiR Audio M4, which especially when paired with the DITA Oslo cable (which adds a little bit of warmth), present a huge stage that feels incredibly open. I will do a more in-depth comparison of these soon, where I will look specifically at classical music, but I enjoyed both presentations a lot when I reviewed them.

That sounds great. This is the first I've heard of the DITA Dream XLS. Is it widely known and I am just clueless or is this a hidden gem?

I am also considering some full sized open back cans for classical. Thinking about the Sennheiser 800S headphones on my highly modded Bottlehead Crack. How would you compare the IEM experience for Classical vs the full sized open back can experience?

 

[aaf evo]

I have to agree with @mvvRAZ here. I didn’t hear the VE8 and A18s to be that similar. The A18s has much deeper bass and in more quantity as well as more upper treble than the VE8, in addition to what Michael stated too.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I have to agree with @mvvRAZ here. I didn’t hear the VE8 and A18s to be that similar. The A18s has much deeper bass and in more quantity as well as more upper treble than the VE8, in addition to what Michael stated too.

Okay. Not sure I understand his categorization scheme then. Would having a VE8 and A18s in a portfolio work well or would they be different, but too similar to have a good diversified set of listening experiences?

I was ready to purchase the 18s until these VE8 came onto the market at a price I just had to try it.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Like @mvvRAZ said, my current favourites for classical music are the DITA Dream XLS. They balance certain reference qualities with naturalness and a liquidity to the notes that I really like. The stage is very wide and layering and positional information are outstanding. The presentation is full of emotion, but not overly coloured, and it is very dynamic, picking out subtle tonal nuances with ease while scaling to grandness when the music calls for it.

A bit brighter and more technical would be the FiR Audio M4, which especially when paired with the DITA Oslo cable (which adds a little bit of warmth), present a huge stage that feels incredibly open. I will do a more in-depth comparison of these soon, where I will look specifically at classical music, but I enjoyed both presentations a lot when I reviewed them.

How would you rate the A18s mX module for Classical Music? Is it good?

 

[aaf evo]

Okay. Not sure I understand his categorization scheme then. Would having a VE8 and A18s in a portfolio work well or would they be different, but too similar to have a good diversified set of listening experiences?

I was ready to purchase the 18s until these VE8 came onto the market at a price I just had to try it.

I think owning both would be fine. Both are warm but quite different in their music presentations, IMO.

 

[mvvRAZ]

Okay. Not sure I understand his categorization scheme then. Would having a VE8 and A18s in a portfolio work well or would they be different, but too similar to have a good diversified set of listening experiences?

I was ready to purchase the 18s until these VE8 came onto the market at a price I just had to try it.

In the general sense that they’re both what I’d categorize as warm. The A18S has much bigger staging though, faster bass (for better or worse), and more extended and present upper treble - while you could definitely own both, I don’t know if I’d really listen much to the VE8 considering I also own the A18S. The elysium offers a more complementary signature IMO

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

In the general sense that they’re both what I’d categorize as warm. The A18S has much bigger staging though, faster bass (for better or worse), and more extended and present upper treble - while you could definitely own both, I don’t know if I’d really listen much to the VE8 considering I also own the A18S. The elysium offers a more complementary signature IMO

Got it. What you described for the A18s is what I recall in my audition session with them. I thought their detail and resolution were great for Classical music, but they also have a warm bass response which seems to be a unicorn in this industry.

 

[Wyville]

That sounds great. This is the first I've heard of the DITA Dream XLS. Is it widely known and I am just clueless or is this a hidden gem?

I am also considering some full sized open back cans for classical. Thinking about the Sennheiser 800S headphones on my highly modded Bottlehead Crack. How would you compare the IEM experience for Classical vs the full sized open back can experience?

DITA is quite well known, but not the biggest company. They also don’t turn out new IEMs every six months, instead taking more time in their development process and as such don’t attract a lot of hype. I reviewed the Dream XLS a few months ago (link).

Sadly, I don’t have experience with headphones and so can’t compare.

How would you rate the A18s mX module for Classical Music? Is it good?

Sorry, never heard the A18s, so I can’t say anything about that either.

 

[gLer]

Great discussion going on here that Head-Fi yet again failed to alert me to with email updates!

FWIW the Nio is not V-shaped to my ears, more W shaped (tilted towards the bass) if you use the M15/20 modules. Trio is U-shaped. I don't recall 64 Audio making a V-shaped IEM actually.

As for headphones vs IEMs, no IEM can physically create the 'size' and physicality of a large driver open back like the HD800S. That's not to say one is better than the other, but it's a different experience in the same way speakers are a different experience to headphones.

Properly amped, the HD800/S can keep up with most IEMs in terms of resolution and imaging, while presenting a larger, more natural space, which is particularly useful for genres like classical and jazz. They're also physically more comfortable than IEMs, though that's a personal preference.

Of all my desktop gear that's now gone, the HD800 is the only remnant I've kept for the reasons above, and I find it performs well enough with a powerful DAP to suit my portable system.

 

[mvvRAZ]

Great discussion going on here that Head-Fi yet again failed to alert me to with email updates!

FWIW the Nio is not V-shaped to my ears, more W shaped (tilted towards the bass) if you use the M15/20 modules. Trio is U-shaped. I don't recall 64 Audio making a V-shaped IEM actually.

As for headphones vs IEMs, no IEM can physically create the 'size' and physicality of a large driver open back like the HD800S. That's not to say one is better than the other, but it's a different experience in the same way speakers are a different experience to headphones.

Properly amped, the HD800/S can keep up with most IEMs in terms of resolution and imaging, while presenting a larger, more natural space, which is particularly useful for genres like classical and jazz. They're also physically more comfortable than IEMs, though that's a personal preference.

Of all my desktop gear that's now gone, the HD800 is the only remnant I've kept for the reasons above, and I find it performs well enough with a powerful DAP to suit my portable system.

Had the same issue with the notifications as you - you can adjust the emails that you receive in the Preferences - I've got all the boxes ticked I think

 

[Rockwell75]

so true, I have been heavily doing AB among all my iems, as I am trying cables, it is surprising how now I dislike all my iems. Right now seriously all sound like crap to me.

In comparison when I did have gaps been using them, I liked almost all of them

I definitely have ear fatigue now, so best to not listen to any iem for a week now

I remember having that "problem" earlier in the year when I had the u12t/Solaris/LX/VE8 all on hand at the same time. Flipping rapidly between them trying to assess just made me like each of them less. The only way to go (for me) was to just give up on that and give each one a good deal of time (ie., at least a day) before moving on to the next.

 

[mvvRAZ]

oBravo's EAMT1C - the love child of open backs and IEMs

First and foremost, a big thank you to Audio Concierge in the UK for lending me the EAMT1C, I've had the unit for several weeks now and have been able to take my time with it as opposed to the usual rush associated with demo units.

In this specific case, I will be taking a slightly different approach to discussing the pricing - I'll slap a generic "$4000+" pricetag to them even though they retail at the equivalent of $5500 - the reason for that is the fact that oBravo's pricing is generally speaking in a category of its own, so you're paying a pretty fat premium for the tech that's in there as opposed to the usual sound + build.

The EAMT1C

One of the main justifications behind oBravo's rather aggressive pricing is the fact that they're the only ones that have managed to scale down an AMT to a size that can go into an IEM - the EAMT1C features a 13mm DD and an AMT, and both are implemented as full range drivers. oBravo have also implemented a high pass filter, which is a sort of crossover, but where it only limits one driver. From what I've come to understand, the AMT is limited in that it only covers a specific part of the FR spectrum - definitely the treble, and possibly some part of the midrange

I usually never read or write about eartips, because that's very individual, but in this case it really needs to be addressed - the AMT driver in the EAMT1C is extremely picky in terms of fit - with foam I ended up slaughtering the entire treble and upper midrange - with silicone tips I got a really bright and thin sound - after multiple attempts, the only tips that worked for me were those sticky gray ones (Xelastec if I remember right) - if you're planning on buying these I'd definitely recommend you to stock up on eartips before you do so, because they really require some rolling

Once that's out of the way, the EAMT1C is lovely - a mostly neutral monitor, with a slight inclination towards bright and excellent coherency/transparency. From everything I've heard, these are the absolute closest anything has gotten to an open back headphone - I'm not necessarily saying this is a good thing - I for one absolutely love the classic IEM sound, but if you're looking to replicate the open back experience in an IEM, I'd be hard pressed to find something more suitable. It isn't that the staging of the EAMT1C is comparable to say the HD800, but rather the overall presentation and feel of the sound.

The bass on the EAMT1C is quite tight and precise - where I found it does really well is in that it is able to capture decay especially accurately - it doesn't add any flavoring of its own, but it is able to reproduce those slower, satisfying hits very well. It has really good texture that isn't overdone, and manages to maintain coherency with the more transparent, somewhat thinner midrange. It has very good depth, with decent impact - by no means will it satisfy any kind of basshead need, but as far as neutral bass goes, the EAMT1C is a success story.

My one potential complaint here would be that it is bass that you can "feel" as opposed to really hear - quite typical for open back headphones, where you're operating at a much lower pressure. Again though, my recommendation for the EAMT1C would be in the specific case that you're looking for the open back sound within an IEM, so with that assumption, it would be a distinct positive.

The midrange on the EAMT1C is, IMHO, well executed but realistically I'm not the right person to judge it as it misses my preferences on a few accounts. Firstly, it is really transparent. Like, if the Topping A90 was the midrange of an IEM, that would be it - I personally like a little more body and weight to the sound. Secondly, the upper midrange is a bit more forward than what I find enjoyable, and I found myself having to lower the volume with a lot of the 90s rap and alt rock that I listen to.

I do have to say here that the EAMT1C's execution of an upper-mid forward signature is a good one - male vocals still sound correct, and female vocals don't sound overdone and enhanced - they're simply more forward within the performance than what I want them to be.

The treble on the EAMT1C is spectacular once you get the fit right. It extends to infinity and beyond, it has incredible control and detail, and its positioning within the staging has this pin-point precision to it. There's so much and yet so little to really say here - it's not the most sparkly treble you'll find, but where raw quality is concerned, I've heard few monitors that can really go toe to toe with it. The one that comes to mind is the IER Z1R, but to even be in the same league as the IER Z1R on treble quality is already pretty damn impressive.

In terms of quantity, it is a forward treble presentation that maintains excellent smoothness - at no point did I find the EAMT1C overly bright or at all sibilant. You do need to want treble to enjoy these, but if you have a slight treble head tendency, they are likely to hit the sweet spot for you.

On technical ability, the EAMT1C does very well - the staging is what I'd say is most pronounced here, enjoying good width and some of the best height I've heard from an IEM. The staging is where I can feel the sound returns to what I'm used to experiencing with IEMs - I've mentioned in many posts and threads that I distinctly prefer how well organized IEM staging is to the more "floaty" and borderless HP staging, so I've really been enjoy that in the EAMT1C. It is able to give you a really good sense of where everything is happening, with very good air and space between the notes.

The instrumental separation is good, but to my ears the forwardness of the upper midrange gets in the way - it makes vocals sound a little too large and forward, which in turn takes away attention from the rest of the performance - I think I may be especially sensitive to that tuning, so it is very likely that I am misjudging this specific aspect.

Detail is great, they pick up on tons of it - the FR is on some level built for high detail retrieval - forward upper mids, forward treble - it is definitely the kind of presentation that brings your attention to the finer nuances, and it will also pick up on harshness coming from the recording.

Verdict

The EAMT1C is a rare case where I praise an IEM despite the fact that I don't really agree with/love the tuning - it is simply put a very respectable performer, regardless of personal preference. It has a sort of classic audiophile tuning, and is the closest thing I've heard to an open back in the shell of an IEM. At $5500 it is a really tough thing to flat out recommend, but I will say that it fills a rather specific niche, so if you're really looking for that presentation, you'll have a hard time finding another IEM that does it at such a level.

Would I drop my own money on it? I thought about it for a while, but the upper midrange tuning unfortunately doesn't play well with a lot of my stuff - I wouldn't say it is overdone on the EAMT1C, but I tend to enjoy a vocal presentation that's on the same plain as the rest of the performance and it doesn't play all that well with a big chunk of my library (lower res rap, rock etc etc). I know a lot of audiophiles enjoy that "upper mid bite" and the 1C will deliver on that.

I will definitely consider future releases by oBravo though - I absolutely loved the AMT driver and what it did for the treble - sooner or later, I'd love me one of those.

 

[proedros]

for 5500$ an IEM should cook you steaks and give you BJs

oh, and do your tax returns.