RAZ's TOTL review and rambles thread
Jun 1, 2021 at 10:26 AM Post #2,161 of 3,517

mvvRAZ

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Jun 1, 2021 at 11:05 AM Post #2,163 of 3,517

Deezel177

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When Oriolus started raising prices of Traillii to $6599 and thereby increasing resale value of Traillii on second hand market, it reminded me of the watch industry. What a world that would be, where iem industry starts to mimic watches.

The MSRP's of summit iems like Mason FS and Traillii are already approaching this category!! :laughing:
Indeed. I have to be honest when I say that those two releases kinda jaded my view on the market; at least a little bit. It's also why I recently declined a review offer from a brand I've worked with multiple times in the past (not an IEM), because they may or may not be planning on approaching those sorts of price points. I'd personally love to see more Jolene's, or EVE20's, or EVO 10's on the market. But, you can't always get what you want. Here's to hoping those disruptors keep coming, and the $5-6K trend slows down a bit; trickles down, at least.
 
Jun 1, 2021 at 11:41 AM Post #2,164 of 3,517

NCUS

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Easy answer, real music isn't “analytical, transparent colder sound, ” that's “hifi, ” and something you won't hear listening to live music.
It's a bit more complicated. If you ever sat next to a violin, brass section, etc. it's not really a warm silky sound. If can become warmer and more diffuse depending on the concert hall and the distance between the listener and instruments. I'll go out on a limb and guess that aside from some classical, most mics are set relatively close to the instrument, so the actual reference sound may be more raw than warm. At the end of the day, people should just buy what sounds good to them.
 
Jun 1, 2021 at 11:49 AM Post #2,165 of 3,517

gLer

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Indeed. I have to be honest when I say that those two releases kinda jaded my view on the market; at least a little bit. It's also why I recently declined a review offer from a brand I've worked with multiple times in the past (not an IEM), because they may or may not be planning on approaching those sorts of price points. I'd personally love to see more Jolene's, or EVE20's, or EVO 10's on the market. But, you can't always get what you want. Here's to hoping those disruptors keep coming, and the $5-6K trend slows down a bit; trickles down, at least.
I think the trend towards bundling $2k cables with IEMs and not giving buyers a choice is more problematic to be honest. But yes, let's hope those two are anomalies, regardless of the fact that Traillii at least justifies the cost (though the price increase leaves a sour taste and smacks of profiteering).
 
Jun 1, 2021 at 1:56 PM Post #2,166 of 3,517

Deezel177

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I think the trend towards bundling $2k cables with IEMs and not giving buyers a choice is more problematic to be honest. But yes, let's hope those two are anomalies, regardless of the fact that Traillii at least justifies the cost (though the price increase leaves a sour taste and smacks of profiteering).
I've written and rewritten my paragraphs-long - admittedly, fairly resigned and bleak :D - reply to this several times, but I think I'll follow your lead: Hope and see what the future holds. :)
 
Jun 1, 2021 at 4:09 PM Post #2,167 of 3,517

normie610

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It's also why I recently declined a review offer from a brand I've worked with multiple times in the past (not an IEM)
It can only be a DAP or cable…wondering which one 🤔😁
 
Jun 1, 2021 at 5:03 PM Post #2,168 of 3,517

rantng

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Indeed. I have to be honest when I say that those two releases kinda jaded my view on the market; at least a little bit. It's also why I recently declined a review offer from a brand I've worked with multiple times in the past (not an IEM), because they may or may not be planning on approaching those sorts of price points. I'd personally love to see more Jolene's, or EVE20's, or EVO 10's on the market. But, you can't always get what you want. Here's to hoping those disruptors keep coming, and the $5-6K trend slows down a bit; trickles down, at least.
There was a time I thought JH IEMs were too expensive. Now I look at their IEMs and the prices actually seem quite reasonable. Whodathunkit?
 
Jun 1, 2021 at 5:17 PM Post #2,169 of 3,517

Wildcatsare1

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It's a bit more complicated. If you ever sat next to a violin, brass section, etc. it's not a warm silky sound. It can become warmer and more diffuse depending on the concert hall and the distance between the listener and instruments. I'll go out on a limb and guess that aside from some classical, most mics are set relatively close to the instrument, so the actual reference sound may be more raw than warm. At the end of the day, people should just buy what sounds good to them.

I'll agree, and throw in another, Brass, it ain't dainty, but, for the most part, I'm in row 5-15. Maybe first or second for jazz. Plus, I agree, whatever floats your boat, in the end, it's subjective, you can have charts up to your heine, but they don't mean a thing if it's not hitting your subjective preferences.

My point is, particularly in reviewing, you have to have an easily communicated benchmark, mine is live, an amplified instruments. I’m not being a snob, just because I am old fart who doesn't do EDM, in fact, that makes what I write less relevant to someone who does listen to it.
 
Jun 1, 2021 at 5:43 PM Post #2,170 of 3,517

ian91

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I mentioned this in another post. To me, there's 100% no chance it is conducting any sound through any bone. Imo it acts like a big, tubeless driver (wouldn't be surprised if it was full range or treble only), creating said "airy" effect

The position of the shell being largely against less conductive cartilage and skin of the ear has made me doubt have much information is being transmitted successfully as you're much further away from bone than say, for example, through skin of the scalp to bone (where traditional BC drivers are placed either preauricular or postauricular for a more direct path to the cochlea). With my brief time with MEST MKII I definitely appreciate aspects to the sound I've not heard elsewhere, so I do feel it does something.

To clarify, are you saying the BC driver just pushes air in the general direction of the bores to create the 'air effect'?
 
Jun 1, 2021 at 7:46 PM Post #2,171 of 3,517

Darkestred

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Indeed. I have to be honest when I say that those two releases kinda jaded my view on the market; at least a little bit. It's also why I recently declined a review offer from a brand I've worked with multiple times in the past (not an IEM), because they may or may not be planning on approaching those sorts of price points. I'd personally love to see more Jolene's, or EVE20's, or EVO 10's on the market. But, you can't always get what you want. Here's to hoping those disruptors keep coming, and the $5-6K trend slows down a bit; trickles down, at least.
Should we start buying up all stock of Mason and Traillii in hopes of ridiculous markups like the hulk!?!?

er meant to quote the watch quote.
 
Jun 2, 2021 at 1:38 AM Post #2,172 of 3,517

Deezel177

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There was a time I thought JH IEMs were too expensive. Now I look at their IEMs and the prices actually seem quite reasonable. Whodathunkit?
One of the greatest anime plot twists of all time. :D I just personally admire the mentality they're showing with the Jolene, which is, "How can we appropriately price this to disrupt the market?" rather than, "How high can we push this and still have people buy it?" Perhaps, it's a luxury or privilege that's afforded by their massive success in the pro scene. They don't feel as much pressure to be the top dogs in the enthusiast market, so they can afford to make moves like that. But, man, imagine the market if every brand thought that way. Rather than constantly having to, as @gLer put it, justify their exponentially rising costs, they're all competing to price their new tech or, more so, their improved tuning techniques lower and lower instead.
 
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Jun 2, 2021 at 2:15 AM Post #2,173 of 3,517

gLer

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One of the greatest anime plot twists of all time. :D I just personally admire the mentality they're showing with the Jolene, which is, "How can we appropriately price this to disrupt the market?" rather than, "How high can we push this and still have people buy it?" Perhaps, it's a luxury or privilege that's afforded by their massive success in the pro scene. They don't feel as much pressure to be the top dogs in the enthusiast market, so they can afford to make moves like that. But, man, imaging the market if every brand thought that way. Rather than constantly having to, as @gLer put it, justify their exponentially rising costs, they're all competing to price their new tech or, more so, their improved tuning techniques lower and lower instead.
Very well said. I'm not sure what happened to tech getting better for the same or less money with each iteration, but that rule doesn't seem to apply to IEMs (as it does to DAPs and other electronics for example).

With the Bird as an outlier exception - because it IS fundamentally better than most if not all its competitors - I'm not sure how these companies are justifying price increases. Maybe it works differently in a niche market such as ours, where demand and perception determine pricing. It's not that they can't make more to increase supply either, it's that they WON'T to artificially increase demand. It's a choice not to get into the volume game.

Ultimately in a niche hobby we as customers DO have a choice and a voice. Enough of us are in direct communication with the companies that make these products for us, so if there is genuine concern at price increases, we need to make that known, not just mumble into our threads and keep buying their wares.
 
Jun 2, 2021 at 2:23 AM Post #2,174 of 3,517

mvvRAZ

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Very well said. I'm not sure what happened to tech getting better for the same or less money with each iteration, but that rule doesn't seem to apply to IEMs (as it does to DAPs and other electronics for example).

With the Bird as an outlier exception - because it IS fundamentally better than most if not all its competitors - I'm not sure how these companies are justifying price increases. Maybe it works differently in a niche market such as ours, where demand and perception determine pricing. It's not that they can't make more to increase supply either, it's that they WON'T to artificially increase demand. It's a choice not to get into the volume game.

Ultimately in a niche hobby we as customers DO have a choice and a voice. Enough of us are in direct communication with the companies that make these products for us, so if there is genuine concern at price increases, we need to make that known, not just mumble into our threads and keep buying their wares.
one thing worth mentioning Imo is that a lot of the prices already factor in pretty substantial discounts - I pretty much refuse to buy almost anything if it doesn't come with a 20% off,, with some exceptions such as first purchase from a company.
 
Jun 2, 2021 at 2:57 AM Post #2,175 of 3,517

gLer

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one thing worth mentioning Imo is that a lot of the prices already factor in pretty substantial discounts - I pretty much refuse to buy almost anything if it doesn't come with a 20% off,, with some exceptions such as first purchase from a company.
I buy everything (with the exception of tips and cables) in mint used condition so anything less than 50% off retail and I'm walking away 😝 $6000 is my son's college fees for a year, so I'm certainly not going to drop that on an IEM (lest I want to pay divorce fees and maintenance too).
 

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