[fzman]

I was thinking that the smaller bore size of a tip attenuates the highs only, and by lowering the highs it would create an illusion of enhancing the bass.

This may be conformatin bias on my part, given the following train of thought. Lower frequencies have much longer wavelengths -- that's why the bass pipes on a ppe organ are 16' tall, and in some cases, 32' tall!! With conventional speaker drivers, the driver's dispersion gets narrower with increasing frequency within its usable range. You need larger rooms to support lower frequency reproduction, as the waves are bigger....

So, it seems to me that bass needs a bigger aperture to come out. I would be quite curious to know what iem desginers would say in this regard - does the iem tech behave similarly to speakers in rooms?

 

[dothebarracuda]

But it brings up a question about bass quantity and bore size. I thought i'd read somehwere that smaller bore gives more bass,which not only seems counterintuitive to me, but my ears tell me that they reduce it. Do my ears work wrong, or was the post I saw recently just wrong?

I was just thinking about this. Your experience 100% matches mine. Smaller bore = emphasizes higher frequencies by reducing lower ones. Larger bore = hear all the frequencies in balance. It is the opposite of what I frequently see on here. One theory I have that it depends on the IEM itself - the shape of the nozzle or the sound signature (brighter vs warmer). Would be interesting if something were wrong with our ears but I doubt it!

As for 2-pin vs MMCX, I find there can be issues with the 2-pin cable falling out, but it's a better problem than with MMCX where it's too easy to rip out the socket and break the IEM. I got a tool for extraction that works well which makes MMCX better overall in my opinion for being more secure, but the 2-pin is less stressful. It still seems harder to destroy beyond repair. It barely matters though. Perhaps there will be a better standard one day.

 

[Neweymatt]

I was just thinking about this. Your experience 100% matches mine. Smaller bore = emphasizes higher frequencies by reducing lower ones. Larger bore = hear all the frequencies in balance. It is the opposite of what I frequently see on here. One theory I have that it depends on the IEM itself - the shape of the nozzle or the sound signature (brighter vs warmer). Would be interesting if something were wrong with our ears but I doubt it!

As for 2-pin vs MMCX, I find there can be issues with the 2-pin cable falling out, but it's a better problem than with MMCX where it's too easy to rip out the socket and break the IEM. I got a tool for extraction that works well which makes MMCX better overall in my opinion for being more secure, but the 2-pin is less stressful. It still seems harder to destroy beyond repair. It barely matters though. Perhaps there will be a better standard one day.

What's the tool you've got for the MMCX?

I'm always a bit paranoid pulling my IER-Z1R out from their cables, the fit is so snug I'm afraid something is going to split sometimes.

 

[Wildcatsare1]

What tips do Y’all use with your Thummim?

 

[fzman]

https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/mmcx-assist-for-in-ear-monitor-iem-earphone-green

 

[toranku]

I was just thinking about this. Your experience 100% matches mine. Smaller bore = emphasizes higher frequencies by reducing lower ones. Larger bore = hear all the frequencies in balance. It is the opposite of what I frequently see on here. One theory I have that it depends on the IEM itself - the shape of the nozzle or the sound signature (brighter vs warmer). Would be interesting if something were wrong with our ears but I doubt it!

As for 2-pin vs MMCX, I find there can be issues with the 2-pin cable falling out, but it's a better problem than with MMCX where it's too easy to rip out the socket and break the IEM. I got a tool for extraction that works well which makes MMCX better overall in my opinion for being more secure, but the 2-pin is less stressful. It still seems harder to destroy beyond repair. It barely matters though. Perhaps there will be a better standard one day.

An easy way to visualize this would be seeing how balanced armature drivers are tuned with tubes. A larger tube inner diameter allows for more treble frequencies to come through. Smaller tube inner diameter would reduce the amount of treble coming through. Neither should reduce the amount of bass frequencies being reproduced. If there is less or more perceived bass frequencies coming through, it would be how the tips fit the user.

 

[dothebarracuda]

What's the tool you've got for the MMCX?

I'm always a bit paranoid pulling my IER-Z1R out from their cables, the fit is so snug I'm afraid something is going to split sometimes.

This extraction tool. It has been infallible for me and works for any MMCX cable/IEM pairing. But it's also very expensive for what it is. I don't know if I would recommend it for everyone but I appreciate it for peace of mind (I have broken MMCX connectors before while being careful). The type that @fzman linked is popular and works well.

 

[dothebarracuda]

If there is less or more perceived bass frequencies coming through, it would be how the tips fit the user.

It occurred to me that could be the reason. So maybe my ears are weird after all!

 

[ranfan]

Smaller tube inner diameter would reduce the amount of treble coming through.

Curious as to how that is so. Is that because of how higher frequencies travel at a shorter distance, making it more prone to obstacles than lower frequencies?
It's true that when I blow a whistle with the same puff and mouth opening diameter, the more I extend the lips (tube length) the heavier and more bassy the whistle sounds.
It sounded as if the treble decreased relative along with length of the physical medium. But it can also be that the longer the canal and volume of the tube, the more air quantity and/or density there is for the sound wave to traverse through. The more obstacles obstructing the higher frequency wave the less power/loudness it is able to output.
I'm not sure whether if the loudness of the treble is decreased with smaller tube diameter, or perhaps it's the tube length. The surface area of the tweeter output could also play a role in this.

 

[toranku]

Curious as to how that is so. Is that because of how higher frequencies travel at a shorter distance, making it more prone to obstacles than lower frequencies?
It's true that when I blow a whistle with the same puff and mouth opening diameter, the more I extend the lips (tube length) the heavier and more bassy the whistle sounds.
It sounded as if the treble decreased relative along with length of the physical medium. But it can also be that the longer the canal and volume of the tube, the more air quantity and/or density there is for the sound wave to traverse through. The more obstacles obstructing the higher frequency wave the less power/loudness it is able to output.
I'm not sure whether if the loudness of the treble is decreased with smaller tube diameter, or perhaps it's the tube length. The surface area of the tweeter output could also play a role in this.

A smaller tube diameter decreases the resonances of the tube, acting as a mechanical low pass and reducing HF response. Longer tube length (not inner diameter) causes the HF to lose energy and brings tube resonances towards bass frequencies.

What some manufacturers do to kill off a subwoofer BA's treble response is to both lengthen the tube and greatly reduce inner diameter of the tube. Shure demonstrates it with the SE846.

 

[chickenmcnug]

What tips do Y’all use with your Thummim?

New Bee silicone

 

[RTodd]

A smaller tube diameter decreases the resonances of the tube, acting as a mechanical low pass and reducing HF response. Longer tube length (not inner diameter) causes the HF to lose energy and brings tube resonances towards bass frequencies.

What some manufacturers do to kill off a subwoofer BA's treble response is to both lengthen the tube and greatly reduce inner diameter of the tube. Shure demonstrates it with the SE846.

Looking closely at the Traillii the bass drivers terminate into a plastic tube and than into a single very small diameter metal tube that is reducing the diameter by at least 50% and it is about 6-7mm long. This matches what you describe. The tuning choices on the Traillii look like a master class in IEM design.

it is highly unlikely to me that any tip changes would alter the Bass on this IEM at all. Any treble coming from the bass driver would already have been dealt with by that tuning tube.

The treble in this IEM have no tubes at all the ports from the estats end into a bit of a pocket that is quite large and is the largest opening on the top of the IEMs exit to the tip. This looks as though tips could impact and alter the higher frequencies.

 

[toranku]

Looking closely at the Traillii the bass drivers terminate into a plastic tube and than into a single very small diameter metal tube that is reducing the diameter by at least 50% and it is about 6-7mm long. This matches what you describe. The tuning choices on the Traillii look like a master class in IEM design.

it is highly unlikely to me that any tip changes would alter the Bass on this IEM at all. Any treble coming from the bass driver would already have been dealt with by that tuning tube.

The treble in this IEM have no tubes at all the ports from the estats end into a bit of a pocket that is quite large and is the largest opening on the top of the IEMs exit to the tip. This looks as though tips could impact and alter the higher frequencies.

I have no idea what the tralili's internals are but if its a short metal tube then it is likely to be a damper. They typically have cloth on the inside that increases acoustic impedance, dampening the highs. What most manufacturers would do is to damp the HF of the woofers with dampers to reduce any potential phase cancellation when interacting with the tweeters.

With regards to length and ID of the tubes, typically a long length is considered to be more than 20mm (I've seen them go up to 90mm) and a very small ID is considered to be 0.3mm. Modern day technology allows for the 3d printing of such structures which makes what was previously difficult now very much possible. You can find such 3d printed structured in the likes of fearless' ACME and Craft Ear's RASEN. Shure was boss enough to stack metal to create such a structure.

The "pocket" you may be referring to might be a horn, but I am not sure since photos online doesnt show it quite clearly. One of the problems with EST implementations is often that the EST simply isnt playing enough to be worth using. A horn and placing the tweeter closer would be a great way to increase treble output. However that usually still isnt quite enough - voltage dividers in the electronic circuit would help attenuate the other drivers and allow the EST play something of significance.

 

[mvvRAZ]

Loads of reviews and impressions to get to, EA making a pretty serious comeback too...

 

[bluestorm1992]

Loads of reviews and impressions to get to, EA making a pretty serious comeback too...

Michael, you promised to give some LP6K impressions. Are you finding it a good device, or would you be going back to LPGT or even try other DAPs? Just curious.