[PiSkyHiFi]

They are clones - they literally doing an exactly same whole thing by specs with tiny changes.
But it's up to them. Consumer electronics market is tough and it's tough to beat China at "time-to-market".

Amp performance is important, DAC is fine already - there is a space for increasing voltage to drive properly high impedance headphones and THD+N is not stellar on low sensitivity ears as well.
And aside from chips used - most important how a thing is done. There are plenty of top DAC solutions with results worse than a low-cost phone. So many ways how you can make BS product, while most people can't hear any difference and just chasing marketing promises.

I personally would not use LDAC over AAC anyway - at the same bitrate AAC is a clear winner and top end bitrate is a unicorn that works only in perfect RF conditions which are not available in real life.
And Windows 10 only supports SBC/APTX, so LDAC doesn't add much here, while there are no sources that support LDAC and not AAC (maybe Sony phones, idk).
So I hope Radsone is not going to put themselves in money draining situation - chasing every consumer request makes the consumer happy until competitors kill you.

P.S. I'm not opening codec discussion again, so I won't bite on any unsupported argues about it.

I'm just saying they aren't clones because they are all doing the same thing, even these guys - it's engineering, none of these devices would be possible without the the available chip-sets, so, they're either all clones of each other or simply packaged devices based on what's available. There isn't a device that does this kind of thing without one of the generic chip-sets. At least ES100 has a unique App and a unique CEO.

We've already gone through the whole codec thing, suffice to say, more options means more flexibility and more compatibility.

 

[wslee]

@SubMash, @PiSkyHiFi:

Appreciate your input!

I think Fiio has been doing great and we can't be a competitor of theirs,
assuming the company size, age, sales and all others, at the moment.

One thing I've learned, the consumers are honest and smart enough far more than what we expect, giving us lots of inspiration.
We can't cheat and we can't hit-and-run any longer in this era of the collective intelligence.
People surf all the information and compile them to the intelligence they need.

There are lots of similar products on the market and we need to compete them with the real things.
There's no other way.
We're just trying to provide what we believe.

Again, Fiio is doing great and we're also staying their products roadmap tuned.
They give us the inspiration and the users also give us the inspiration.

Anyway, we're very happy to go with the other major set makers for the same goal.

Appreciate your kind support!
WS

 

[daniel1st]

I have a bad experience with guys who jump on making clones. And I live and work in China, so, yes, bad experience.

Battery size doesn't matter - what matters is advertised and verified work time. And right now it's almost 2x difference.
I've no idea what is "resisting disturbance", but es100 is quite durable while, yes, it's simple.
And tempered glass is one of the most fragile things there is - very easy to break, as you know.

P.S. I doubt LDAC has many advantages over APTX-HD - they are pretty much same type codecs with a bit different config for bands.

You would like to know that back to BTR1, which is on the market even earlier than ES100, they already utilized the solution with CSR8675 + AK4376a, and this model has gained high market recognition since then. So I did not quite get why you throught it as a clone, and then who is the ancestor?

I am only an user and a fan of both ES100 and BTR3, and it may not be appropriate to discuss too much about btr3 in this thread at this time so I am not going to comment it more, I think time and market will tell...

 

[daniel1st]

Btr3 is available alr?????

They planned to put it on market late in July~

 

[waynes world]

You would like to know that back to BTR1, which is on the market even earlier than ES100, they already utilized the solution with CSR8675 + AK4376a, and this model has gained high market recognition since then. So I did not quite get why you throught it as a clone, and then who is the ancestor?

I am only an user and a fan of both ES100 and BTR3, and it may not be appropriate to discuss too much about btr3 in this thread at this time so I am not going to comment it more, I think time and market will tell...

Yeah, you can't call these devices clones. They may have the same general functionality, but there are still plenty of differences. I liked the physical build quality of the BTR1, but the ES100 is an upgrade in many significant ways (SQ, balanced output, battery life, ability to use as a dac, great phone app & options, great support from Radsone/wslee, frequent firmware/app updates and improvements such as adding ldac etc). The BTR3 might close that gap somewhat, but there will still be enough differences for people to have to put some thought into it.

 

[p50kombi]

They are clones - they literally doing an exactly same whole thing by specs with tiny changes.
But it's up to them. Consumer electronics market is tough and it's tough to beat China at "time-to-market".

Amp performance is important, DAC is fine already - there is a space for increasing voltage to drive properly high impedance headphones and THD+N is not stellar on low sensitivity ears as well.
And aside from chips used - most important how a thing is done. There are plenty of top DAC solutions with results worse than a low-cost phone. So many ways how you can make BS product, while most people can't hear any difference and just chasing marketing promises.

I personally would not use LDAC over AAC anyway - at the same bitrate AAC is a clear winner and top end bitrate is a unicorn that works only in perfect RF conditions which are not available in real life.
And Windows 10 only supports SBC/APTX, so LDAC doesn't add much here, while there are no sources that support LDAC and not AAC (maybe Sony phones, idk).
So I hope Radsone is not going to put themselves in money draining situation - chasing every consumer request makes the consumer happy until competitors kill you.

P.S. I'm not opening codec discussion again, so I won't bite on any unsupported argues about it.

You're never happy whatever radsone does with the es100 anyway.
Sometimes I wonder why you still keep posting on this thread.

 

[peonist]

I think who’s the first dose not matter. Apple’s big successful iPod was not the first mp3 player. Bought my es100 last year through a Kickstarter campaign and quite satisfied with the sound quality, it’s kind of beyond expectation. Not yet tried Fiio receivers, but hope sometime.

One more thing. Specifications do not guarantee SQ. There are so many other factors including pcba, clocks, power scheme, cables, drivers. Ears are the final criteria. Ears are truly wonderful parts.

 

[parawizard]

Fiio lost my support. I am no longer buying their products. I bought and used the BTR1 before I knew about the ES100.

The BTR1 was just disposable. They did not make it updatable or they didn't want to go through the hassle of doing so. They released without AAC support then started shipping units with AAC later. They did zero post ship updates. They have annoying non configurable tones that were way to loud on some of my IEMs.

I honestly feel it is a waste to iterate software functionality with hardware iterations only. I really want to support companies that do such a good job as Radsone is doing. They are constantly improving the ES100. The software is great and keeps getting better. They aren't making waste by constantly iterating through cheaper models of products.

It's obvious that Radsone has some great values. Wslee is doing a great job. LDAC support being added is amazing regardless of the codec debate. They believe in their products. Thanks for being different!

 

[Jearly410]

You're never happy whatever radsone does with the es100 anyway.
Sometimes I wonder why you still keep posting on this thread.

Even though the horse is thoroughly dead and beaten about codecs, and that @SubMash can be a bit abrasive, he’s indirectly taught me a lot about audio in general through this thread so I’m happy to have him.

I’ve also noticed @SubMash continually educates himself and will admit when he is incorrect and fixes whatever flaw was in past comments. As a casual observer I really appreciate and respect that.

The conversations @wslee has with all of us also has taught me a lot about the inner workings of audio, so I thank him as well.

 

[m4rkw]

I'm not getting into the argument, just to add that I think Radsone are F*CK*NG AWESOME for the way they interact with us on here and respond to feature requests. I've never encountered this kind of community support from an electronics manufacturer before but I love it. As a result I've been shouting about the ES100 to everyone and anyone who'll listen and have a bunch of friends who have them now.

The best thing we can do to support Radsone is to get as many people to buy the thing as possible.

 

[daniel1st]

Fiio lost my support. I am no longer buying their products. I bought and used the BTR1 before I knew about the ES100.

The BTR1 was just disposable. They did not make it updatable or they didn't want to go through the hassle of doing so. They released without AAC support then started shipping units with AAC later. They did zero post ship updates. They have annoying non configurable tones that were way to loud on some of my IEMs.

I honestly feel it is a waste to iterate software functionality with hardware iterations only. I really want to support companies that do such a good job as Radsone is doing. They are constantly improving the ES100. The software is great and keeps getting better. They aren't making waste by constantly iterating through cheaper models of products.

It's obvious that Radsone has some great values. Wslee is doing a great job. LDAC support being added is amazing regardless of the codec debate. They believe in their products. Thanks for being different!

As I know, btr1 started to support aac since version 2.0, and you can ship your old one back to fiio for free upgrade.

btr1 is the first pure bluetooth amp product of fiio and released quite early in this market, they were lack of experience and somewhat blind of user needs at that time.
Starting from later products like current μbtr and coming btr3, they support firmware update and as I know, they are developing corresponding apps in which area radsone has been doing quite well.
I may anticipate upcoming fierce competition of this market and I expect to see what radsone and fiio bring me the next superise~

Looking forward to the ES100 armed with LDAC~

 

[m4rkw]

Even though the horse is thoroughly dead and beaten about codecs, and that @SubMash can be a bit abrasive, he’s indirectly taught me a lot about audio in general through this thread so I’m happy to have him.

I’ve also noticed @SubMash continually educates himself and will admit when he is incorrect and fixes whatever flaw was in past comments. As a casual observer I really appreciate and respect that.

+1

 

[SubMash]

You're never happy whatever radsone does with the es100 anyway.
Sometimes I wonder why you still keep posting on this thread.

You got it wrong, but I know why you think so. I'm impressed with what radsone is doing and wish them all luck. LDAC is uneasy decision they have to do that will impact their business for sure. And I only hope they calculated it right. Fight Vs Fiio is tough - Fiio is much larger and has more ways to destroy small potent teams.

I advertise through my network radsone a lot and while it's not going to change a picture - I know around few dozen people who bought their products based on my advice directly. I also aware that answering my tough questions here swayed way more people in favor of radsone.

So don't take it wrong - if I had a time I would invest in radsone directly. I like what they do and hope to see them prosper.

 

[SubMash]

Unfortunately, with Fiio coming its necessary to move on to stay unique. Marketing of Fiio is more powerful to convince new people emotionally. Just better is not enough. Some things have to be done unique in hardware. So maybe: higher voltage amp, ip68 rubberized thin design in "behind the neck" format, fw update over bt, more modern minimalistic ID, tube format with single line display hanging on a cable/clip with jacks on top and bottom and screen autorotation, anti-clipping mode with sound normalizer on the phone side, noise suppressor and better mic for ambience mode.

Fiio is here, so don't response on those things. I suggest other guys to throw their ideas for next hardware. Or even do closed idea collection for next hw from users in the app. Like small popup in the next update with simple ask for help. This way you will get more statistical data on what people want to have in es200.

P.S. Don't forget to start advertising and learning how to make it profitable. Also make more personal blog and let people connect to your brand in easier to read format than forum (Facebook is more structured). Make more instrumented tests to show superiority (geeks like it and they are stronger at advertising to their friends). Your brand can be built on a real support and community - Fiio is not strong with that. And find external designer for website and ID (sorry, but they are somewhat not modern at all)

 

[smorgar]

Im so hyped about the LDAC support!
Been wanting to try LDAC and see how it compares to Aptx-HD an soon i can.
Thank you Radsone!

Btw, wouldn't it be nice to be able to change the name of the saveable EQ presets? Now its PRE-1-4 and i save differens EQ presets for differens headphones. Quite often i forget wich is wich. Even if you only get 3-5 letters if would do much for the user/me