Radsone EarStudio ES100
Jun 12, 2019 at 12:21 PM Post #4,816 of 6,673
It's also kinda annoying because with my S8+, changing the bitrate does not stick, it also converts back to Adaptive mode after disconnecting.

Yes, it is a nuisance. I think it is because Android system limitations, but I'm used to do it before connecting ES100 and it holds up for the whole session.
 
Jun 12, 2019 at 2:58 PM Post #4,818 of 6,673
Some phones are worse than others. But most have a 200 ms lag in the audio when using bluetooth. Charts below show some examples.
I read somewhere that iPhones have 150ms bluetooth latency, but can't find the source of that measurement right now. Under 40ms is supposed to be undetectable.
Bluetooth-Codec-Latency-by-Smartphone-e1554288678837-1024x660.jpg


Only current way to reduce that lag that I have heard, is to: 1) Separate the audio and video and then 2) Make the video lag the audio by the same amount as the bluetooth latency.

Sounds simple, but don't think any current phone or computer has this native ability. I have seen an App that does this to basically eliminate latency; But it only works withing that App, And not for anything else.

Be happy you don't have a Huawei Mate 20 Pro with 500ms of lag !
 
Jun 12, 2019 at 3:11 PM Post #4,819 of 6,673
You can adjust it via Developer Settings (press "build...." multiple times to activate this menu in your settings). You can find out exactly how by google :)
It's also kinda annoying because with my S8+, changing the bitrate does not stick, it also converts back to Adaptive mode after disconnecting. So I didn't bother, personally, I can't hear any difference even between LDAC and AptX

M50 was my first "serious" headphones too but soon moved on. I don't have much experience with full cans, but if you're not afraid of getting used equipment, I believe there are great choices for $200

Ah, thanks. I haven't texted AptX (standard) much at all, but when I accidentally had it on there for a minute or so it definitely didn't sound bad either. I haven't even considered getting used headphones, but seeing that it stretches the $200 to get something in a higher tier I might have to consider that as well.

And wow, I can't believe they have a "battery care" mode. I just started going all out in taking every measure to preserve phone battery since getting a new one, with things such as no longer using fast charge at all and not ever charging my phone fully to 100%. I was thinking of also only charging the ES100 to 90% or so to preserve battery life since I'm reading some people are having battery issues within a year of owning the device, but to see that they've built in an option to do that really shows that they've thought of it all.
 
Jun 12, 2019 at 3:58 PM Post #4,820 of 6,673
Oof, that 990 kbps LDAC is rough with the stuttering on the Galaxy S10+ SD. Turning off location like someone suggested makes it borderline tolerable, which I'm not sure I understand. With location on it stutters constantly to the point of sounding like static mess. With location off it stutters once every 5-10, sometimes getting through 30 seconds to a minute without stuttering. And this is not with the phone in the pocket or anything. My phone and ES100 are next to one another on my desk.

Does anybody know exactly what adaptive generally does? Like if it visits the 990 kbps range or stays on the lower to mid end. Since 990 kbps is probably a no go for me with the stuttering I'm wondering if I'm better off leaving it on 660 kbps or adaptive.
 
Jun 12, 2019 at 3:59 PM Post #4,821 of 6,673
Some phones are worse than others. But most have a 200 ms lag in the audio when using bluetooth. Charts below show some examples.
I read somewhere that iPhones have 150ms bluetooth latency, but can't find the source of that measurement right now. Under 40ms is supposed to be undetectable.
Bluetooth-Codec-Latency-by-Smartphone-e1554288678837-1024x660.jpg


Only current way to reduce that lag that I have heard, is to: 1) Separate the audio and video and then 2) Make the video lag the audio by the same amount as the bluetooth latency.

Sounds simple, but don't think any current phone or computer has this native ability. I have seen an App that does this to basically eliminate latency; But it only works withing that App, And not for anything else.

Be happy you don't have a Huawei Mate 20 Pro with 500ms of lag !

Thanks, so this is another reason why getting rid of headphone jack was a stupid decision. Reason I wasn't aware of when I jumped into ES100 (to be honest I had no option, being an iPhone user).
 
Jun 12, 2019 at 4:19 PM Post #4,822 of 6,673
FYI Only. More/Different Latency measurements... https://superpowered.com/latency Note that these readings differ from the ones in the previously charts copied here. This is ONLY Audio Latency, not the full Audio Bluetooth Latency.
Also note that this is RAW data from individual users. So sometimes a lot of variation in reported latency for same phone/device. Also have no idea what is different in test methods here vrs previous data. Not my expertise...
- Looks like Apple phones and ipads have lower Audio latency than the Android products. Good enough that lag should be minimal.
- And Newer Android phones with Bluetooth 5+ have lower Audio latency. (But still higher than Apple. Android has some work still to do to reduce latency.)
This Audio Latency is only a part of the full Bluetooth Latency. This is why it is faster/shorter times.
 
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Jun 12, 2019 at 8:22 PM Post #4,823 of 6,673
I just got the fh7 and fa7.Im using them straight from my samsung s9+ and the ipad pro 11.5 with chord mojo.The chord mojo is good,but not good as an portable device (the cable gets loose,lots of electric noise when moving it).I have looked at the fiio m11,but then i have another big device dragging around.I had the pioneer xdp 100r before,and it was poor battery life and outdated system.Maybe the es100 could be something.Bluetooth can be great when traveling or walking outside.Dont know if you are into samsung mobiles,but wondering if the es100 is better than samsung s9 and headphone jack output?
For the FA7, absolutely. EQing the mid-bass down is transformative.
 
Jun 12, 2019 at 8:33 PM Post #4,825 of 6,673
...

The ES100 can receive LDAC if your device can send a strong enough signal. So far, all LDAC receivers I have, seem to have trouble maintaining connection at 990kbps, past about 10 ft or open air. Through walls or people (water degrades bluetooth signal), distance can shorten. Some devices are too weak to send full LDAC from a phone in hip pocket, to the ES100 clipped/in a chest pocket.
LDAC is also supported by Sony home theater devices. My UBP-X800 Blu-Ray player provides rock-solid 990 KB/s from across the room, provided I turn off other nearby BT radios.
 
Jun 16, 2019 at 3:15 PM Post #4,826 of 6,673
Anyone stacking this with an amp?

Someone reccomended Periodic Audio Nickle Amp,

Still interested in for anyone with experience? Hoping an amp will get the Es100 the edge it is missing over my wired setup
 
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Jun 16, 2019 at 3:31 PM Post #4,827 of 6,673
Thanks, so this is another reason why getting rid of headphone jack was a stupid decision. Reason I wasn't aware of when I jumped into ES100 (to be honest I had no option, being an iPhone user).
That assumes BT is the “only” option, which is incorrect given the plethora of lightening/USB to audio dongles. (I’ve not seen many latency complaints when using a dongle as the iOS audio stack is pretty refined.) Also, there are many other BT receivers with AAC (no need to worry about aptX HD/LDAC, because iPhone) so the ES100 is not the only option available.

Granted, a dongle occupies the same port used for charging port (there are audio + passthru dongles; also less relevant with wireless charging) and takes up an TINY bit more space. However, since already dealing with a dynamic tether cable the small inline dongle really isn’t that much more to deal with.

The real reason to move to BT is eliminate the dynamic tether wire between the player/phone and headset so a static wire can be used (or the wire can eliminate entirely). While removal of built-in 3.5mm might encourage switching BT, it does not require using BT.

Indeed, BT is not suited for all tasks, especially music editing/creation or twitch games due to latency. However, it can have video retardation to compensate for stream sync issues - I believe this may actually be done already in the iOS Youtube app (looking for verification).

Is there a particular application you use that is noticeably affected by audio latency? (Trying to understand actual problematic cases.)
 
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Jun 18, 2019 at 1:37 PM Post #4,828 of 6,673
That assumes BT is the “only” option, which is incorrect given the plethora of lightening/USB to audio dongles. (I’ve not seen many latency complaints when using a dongle as the iOS audio stack is pretty refined.) Also, there are many other BT receivers with AAC (no need to worry about aptX HD/LDAC, because iPhone) so the ES100 is not the only option available.

Granted, a dongle occupies the same port used for charging port (there are audio + passthru dongles; also less relevant with wireless charging) and takes up an TINY bit more space. However, since already dealing with a dynamic tether cable the small inline dongle really isn’t that much more to deal with.

The real reason to move to BT is eliminate the dynamic tether wire between the player/phone and headset so a static wire can be used (or the wire can eliminate entirely). While removal of built-in 3.5mm might encourage switching BT, it does not require using BT.

Indeed, BT is not suited for all tasks, especially music editing/creation or twitch games due to latency. However, it can have video retardation to compensate for stream sync issues - I believe this may actually be done already in the iOS Youtube app (looking for verification).

Is there a particular application you use that is noticeably affected by audio latency? (Trying to understand actual problematic cases.)

I'm not interested in dongles/wired dacs/amps. I don't like to carry unnecessary bulk in one package. Been there/done that/not interested. That's why BT is the only option.

The app in question is, as per my original post, youtube.
 
Jun 18, 2019 at 2:07 PM Post #4,829 of 6,673
I'm not interested in dongles/wired dacs/amps. I don't like to carry unnecessary bulk in one package. Been there/done that/not interested. That's why BT is the only option.

+1. dongles/wired dacs/amps/bricks = pain in butt. I also really don't like having the headphone wired directly to the phone - my phone needs to be free.

I personally don't find the ES100 lacking with any of the gear I use it with. Love it.
 
Jun 18, 2019 at 2:15 PM Post #4,830 of 6,673
Well, I received the Advanced Sound Accessport Air yesterday. Did some listening with my Fidelio X2.

Build quality....simply destroys the ES100 and it's much cheaper. Then you have the audio, for me, I prefer the ES100. It's much more detailed. The APA is no slouch though, it is still very good as it supports AAC, AptX and AptX-LL.

One thing I noticed though, it defaults to AptX. I went to developer options to swap to AAC and see how that sounded. Instantly the music became so much louder, had to take it a couple notches down. I have no idea why this is. I asked Adv on the FB page and they said, they EQ'd every codec differently. This is just seems like a 3db boost in audio. It's pretty drastic and gives the impression that AAC can drive headphones more. Haven't experienced this with the ES100 at all.

All in all, it's a solid device but the ES100 is still my favorite, esp bc it also has balanced out. The APA will be given to my dad for a late Father's Day gift.
 

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