[scotvl]

sorry double post

 

[wslee]

@wslee: can you give us some information about ES400?
Or should we wait for an official announcement?

ES400 is a power amplifier (60watt/channel) designed for 2.5mm full balanced source devices.
It's for loudspeakers.
We're planning to release it 3Q this year.
Thanks,
WS

 

[scotvl]

ES400 is a power amplifier (60watt/channel) designed for 2.5mm full balanced source devices.
It's for loudspeakers.
We're planning to release it 3Q this year.
Thanks,
WS

Nice you can probably count me in for a ES400 to pair with my ES100 to power the speakers in my garage then. Is it going to be a Kickstarter campaign again and when do you think it may start?

 

[Soaa-]

WS, do you guys have any plans to fix the issues I described in this post?

 

[wslee]

I've had my ES100 since Friday. This is pretty much everything I've wanted in a source device. I'm really loving the BT/USB dual function.

Some feedback:

• On Android, the DAC filter selection UI is buggy. It'll sometimes show two modes selected at the same time when I try switching modes. Also, regardless of which mode I select, it always shows "short delay slow roll-off" when I reload the app. Is the mode switching working?
• I wish ambient mode worked all the time, not just when music is playing.

I've been really digging the sound quality out of it. Impedance is low enough that bass isn't problematic on my MD+. And especially, the thing is dead silent! No hiss, no electronic noise. I'm using single-ended double current output.

@Soaa:

DAC filter selection issue is a bug on Android Application, not a firmware issue.
Currently, we're working on it and release new bug fixed version of Android application sooner or later.
About your suggestion on ambient mode operation,
I'm sorry it's not possible to make it worked all the time.
Thanks and Regards,
WS

 

[wslee]

Nice you can probably count me in for a ES400 to pair with my ES100 to power the speakers in my garage then. Is it going to be a Kickstarter campaign again and when do you think it may start?

NO MORE Kickstarter campaign ever again.
We'll officially release it in the market within this year.
Thanks,
WS

 

[scotvl]

Thanks for the input and I agree with you.
We're preparing the next F/W update and will update the feature as you requested.

BTW, please keep that always in your mind that Android phone volume control with any Bluetooth device is always performed before BT audio encoder.
Thus, you will get considerable loss in audio quality when adjusting the volume on the phone.
Setting the volume on the phone at the maximum (0 dBFS) and adjusting ES100 analog volume would give you the best audio quality.

Thanks and Regards,
WS

wslee my lg g6 and my Sony sbh50 bluetooth receivers volume are locked together when I change volume from either device while my note 4s volume operates independently of the sbh50. Will this be a problem when I pair my g6 with the ES100 ? I just ordered the ES100 from amazon.ca yesterday to take advantage of the aptx HD pairing so it will be a week or two before I can test it for myself. Do you think the g6 is sending the full pcm stream at any volume like an iOS phone, is that possible being an android phone?
Editing to add its the Canadian bell g6 LG-H873, thanks.

 

[redogfizbal]

Just placed my order. I’ve tried all the current top Bluetooth headphones and have not found what I’ve been looking for. So I am going to to do detachable cable mod on my DT770 80’s, and clip this puppy on. Keeping my fingers X.

 

[wslee]

wslee my lg g6 and my Sony sbh50 bluetooth receivers volume are locked together when I change volume from either device while my note 4s volume operates independently of the sbh50. Will this be a problem when I pair my g6 with the ES100 ? I just ordered the ES100 from amazon.ca yesterday to take advantage of the aptx HD pairing so it will be a week or two before I can test it for myself. Do you think the g6 is sending the full pcm stream at any volume like an iOS phone, is that possible being an android phone?
Editing to add its the Canadian bell g6 LG-H873, thanks.

@scotvl:
For the volume synchronization, both the smartphone OS and BT receiver should support it together.
And ES100 doesn't provide the volume synchronization, which means you need to take care the source volume manually, keeping it the maximum for the best performance.
There are pros and cons concerning the volume synchronization. But to provide fine volume step, ES100 doesn't support it.
Thanks and Regards,
WS

 

[SubMash]

Anyone used it with aptx except me? Because I can't be alone who can hear those problems.

http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_aliasing.php

Try this and tell me you don't hear random clicking and sand noise together with heavy harmonics ringing and sweep tones going all wrong directions. My test show harmonics louder than tone on SBC and APTX. Hope it's firmware bug - it sounds like wrong frequency conversion.

Try this - do you believe those are the sounds of 17-20kHz? http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_mosquito.php

I got 3 earstudio devices all behave the same. I got 2 completely different sources. Tried tochange all settings - no effect. None of that happens with simple beats headphones on the same tests.

I will try to check USB DAC mode also, but it doesn't matter. And I will do later proper RMAA tests. Will post some measurements screens later.

Unfortunately, right now, I got reply from WS that ES100 is OK and there would be no more discussion since people like it.

 

[wslee]

Anyone used it with aptx except me? Because I can't be alone who can hear those problems.

http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_aliasing.php

Try this and tell me you don't hear random clicking and sand noise together with heavy harmonics ringing and sweep tones going all wrong directions. My test show harmonics louder than tone on SBC and APTX. Hope it's firmware bug - it sounds like wrong frequency conversion.

Try this - do you believe those are the sounds of 17-20kHz? http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_mosquito.php

I got 3 earstudio devices all behave the same. I got 2 completely different sources. Tried tochange all settings - no effect. None of that happens with simple beats headphones on the same tests.

I will try to check USB DAC mode also, but it doesn't matter. And I will do later proper RMAA tests. Will post some measurements screens later.

Unfortunately, right now, I got reply from WS that ES100 is OK and there would be no more discussion since people like it.

@SubMash:
If you don't like DCT and any other sound processing with ES100, please turn them off.
That's why we provide those option up to you.
And again, if you think ES100 has the problem, please let the others know what you insist.
Thanks and Regard,
WS

 

[SubMash]

None of what I said influenced by DCT or ANY other settings in ES100.

I insist that such THD (below zero) is unacceptable for sound equipment of any level and nobody can like it.

I will post measurements later. Now I ask those who bought it to share their opinion based on the simple tests I have linked above.

 

[SubMash]

I don't have aptx HD sources, unfortunately - could you, please, use Spectroid app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.intoorbit.spectrum&hl=en to record back sound of http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_aliasing.php

Thanks.

So some first measurements.
This is Spectral Analysis - the interesting part is at the bottom below yellow chart. It shows testing of linear sweep frequency from 1 to 20kHz. I use Samsung S8+ as a source and manipulate Dual Audio to force it to switch between SBC and APTX. Headphones are Shure SE846.

The first diagonal line below is recording from a microphone of the same phone while using 3.5mm jack output.
As you can see it's quite clean and there is only slight first harmonic available as a line with a smaller angle.

Directly below you can see the result of the same test with SBC codec. So here you can see 5 strong harmonics instead of one slight on the whole spectrum. Plus you can see noise around the signal. But the main thing is Aliasing - the wrong manipulation with a frequency that creates sounds that don't exist - all those lines going different directing and meeting each other at 8100Hz.



Now next picture is a sine sweep of 15-20kHz APTX on repeat. Insane amount of aliasing and CRAZY amount of noise everywhere which makes it stronger than the signal itself.



This one last one is 17.4kHz singe sine tone. The top part of the spectral chart is jack output - clean straight vertical line as it should. SBC makes a lot of harmonics and aliased sound and at 8100Hz it becomes 10dB above signal tone itself. You also can see some noise lines moving aside I would assume due to the clock shift. But at the bottom is the main thing - APTX goes all white noise clipping and sanding.



Decreasing volume only makes this noise smaller. It decreases clipping to some extent, but it's still strongly there even when music is barely can be heard.

I don't have, as I've said APTX-HD sources, so can't check them.

The reason I started checking this is that music was playing wrong - I can hear cracking sounds and strange noise in the music. So after few days, that's what I discovered.

I will set up other sources and BT receivers and will test more in RMAA. That was a quick test at night data. For me, it's unbearable to listen.

I need to admit - I can hear similar but WAY lower level aliasing on some cheap BT and soundcards. But none of them exhibit it to such extent and with so much white noise.

I also need to admit - my headphones are 9Ohm. For advertised 0.5Ohm output impedance it should not be a problem.

 

[tim0chan]

So some first measurements.
This is Spectral Analysis - the interesting part is at the bottom below yellow chart. It shows testing of linear sweep frequency from 1 to 20kHz. I use Samsung S8+ as a source and manipulate Dual Audio to force it to switch between SBC and APTX. Headphones are Shure SE846.

The first diagonal line below is recording from a microphone of the same phone while using 3.5mm jack output.
As you can see it's quite clean and there is only slight first harmonic available as a line with a smaller angle.

Directly below you can see the result of the same test with SBC codec. So here you can see 5 strong harmonics instead of one slight on the whole spectrum. Plus you can see noise around the signal. But the main thing is Aliasing - the wrong manipulation with a frequency that creates sounds that don't exist - all those lines going different directing and meeting each other at 8100Hz.



Now next picture is a sine sweep of 15-20kHz APTX on repeat. Insane amount of aliasing and CRAZY amount of noise everywhere which makes it stronger than the signal itself.



This one last one is 17.4kHz singe sine tone. The top part of the spectral chart is jack output - clean straight vertical line as it should. SBC makes a lot of harmonics and aliased sound and at 8100Hz it becomes 10dB above signal tone itself. You also can see some noise lines moving aside I would assume due to the clock shift. But at the bottom is the main thing - APTX goes all white noise clipping and sanding.



Decreasing volume only makes this noise smaller. It decreases clipping to some extent, but it's still strongly there even when music is barely can be heard.

I don't have, as I've said APTX-HD sources, so can't check them.

The reason I started checking this is that music was playing wrong - I can hear cracking sounds and strange noise in the music. So after few days, that's what I discovered.

I will set up other sources and BT receivers and will test more in RMAA. That was a quick test at night data. For me, it's unbearable to listen.

I need to admit - I can hear similar but WAY lower level aliasing on some cheap BT and soundcards. But none of them exhibit it to such extent and with so much white noise.

I also need to admit - my headphones are 9Ohm. For advertised 0.5Ohm output impedance it should not be a problem.

Have you done the firmware update yet?

 

[SubMash]

Have you done the firmware update yet?
Also, member of the trade means he works for the company, not that he trades anything

Certainly, I'm on the latest FW available.

And I really hope things above are FW problem. Not HW. But it could be. And an absence of support of WS doesn't make sense to me.
I wrote emails first, continued PM here. I don't mean any insults, but facts are facts - the product doesn't work right.

I'm not a competitor and not affiliated with one. I'm just customer who got 3 of those and worry that more people might get the same without knowing it. So it's either should be fixed or product should have specific requirements where it won't work or it should be recalled. Or people should be informed of what they going to get.

Right now I need help from those who also got a product to do simple tests - similar to what I did. I will study further with RMAA.

Or guys - just told me that it's OK for you as a consumer to have sound equipment where harmonics are louder than signal.