[tunes]

So, I've been using a WA33 as a preamp into my JotR, and I can't believe how good it sounds. It's unbelievable really. The TCs still win in bass, but in nearly everything else the SR1as are better.

I went from my DAVE to the JotR without the WA33 preamp, and things didn't sounds as good. Perhaps adding tubes somewhere into your chain makes the SR1a sound even that much better.

LIstening to QOTSA's Era Vulgaris has amazing imagining. I feel like I'm on hallucinogens (in a good way). I've never had imaging that good from my other headphones or my (relatively meager 2channel setup [I don't have the space for a real 2-channel setup at the moment]).

Anybody else use some tubes in their SR1a chain?

What is it like to listen to music on Hallucinogens as I have not had this experience?

 

[Ciggavelli]

What is it like to listen to music on Hallucinogens as I have not had this experience?

I just mean that the imagining is so clear and sound stage is so wide and deep. Everything dances around me, as if I was hallucinating. I see color in the sounds as well.

I haven’t done any hallucinogens in a very long time, but the SR1as quickly reminded me of those experiences.

 

[Marax]

Final Thoughts on SR1a & Jotunheim R With and Without EQ & Live vs Recorded Jan 30/2020​

My follow up to https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up.701900/page-3755#post-15441946 post 56523

After taking Tuesday off from any listening after last Monday’s marathon I just cooked the Jotunheim R all day and I returned yesterday (Wednesday) and spent many hours listening and re-listening to two fairly good recordings of the Rach 3 that I had just heard at the concert on Sunday.

I’m about 75 to 80 hours play time on my “R”at this point. The difference in sound loudness level between balanced and SE is notable so I use a sound level meter and 300 Hz test signal on CD to get loudness levels as close as I can, usually within 1 tenth (0.1) of a db for comparison listening to those two modes on the “R”. I use thin wedges cut from Post-It stickie’s to mark same levels of loudness for both balanced and SE positions on the front plate around the volume knob. While I’m pretty good at getting levels close by ear, my OCD compels me to at least give the appearance of some qualifying instrumentation, LOL!

The first recording is by the Philadelphia O., no less, with Dutoit, and was recorded 1990 by Decca in the Philadelphia O.’s usual recording venue at that time, Memorial Hall in Philadelphia (in the days before costs drove so many orchestra’s to start releasing “live” recordings culled from a series of recent consecutive concert performances made (or so I believe – I stand to be corrected). The other recording is by the Baltimore Symphony under David Zinman on Telarc and was recorded in 1994 in their normal performance locale, The Joseph Meyerhoff Symphony Hall. Both recordings are DDD.

By the end of Wednesday’s listening sessions with the SR1a I found myself thinking about what it was that made live versus recorded a different experience, specifically.

For whatever reason I seemed to have a clearer aural recollection of the live performance just attended while listening to these recordings with SR1a then usual in the past when I’ve prep’d before and followed up after live concerts with listening sessions of the same work(s) on CD (and LP’s prior to 2004). Perhaps because of the “rightness” this ribbon design displays at reproducing the entire frequency spectrum at all but the lowest frequencies. I’ve always been partial to ribbons done right over other methods. Carver’s Amazing IV’s ribbon / cone hybrids are my all-time, all-around favorite, followed by Quad ESL 63’s with subs being my 2nd choice for an ultimate speaker solution – wish I still had them both, and the rooms to play them in.

What is it specifically about live concert sound that makes it so different aside from being a part of the event, compared to electronically reproduced sound?

When I go live;
1. The immediacy and sense of body to the sound is so beyond the term “transparency” as we apply the term to electronically reproduced sound.
2. Dynamic range, the difference between the softest and loudest sounds seems so much wider and finely graded compared to what speakers and electronics can manage. However, some digital recordings can manage sounds so low in volume level I want to turn it up to hear it better, but then loud passages are way too loud. This doesn’t happen to me listening live.
3. The ambient air sound of the hall itself, its acoustic signature, is more apparent and can be somewhat unique to that venue and is not captured all that well on recordings.
4. Sound comes out of a silent background when live that is unlike the silent background produced by electronic components (audience noise aside). The concert hall is alive with a sense of air, recorded background is generally dead quiet but sterile. There are times live when a silence following a crescendo can be just as startling as the crescendo.
5. Transient attack seems, somehow, more precise and more impactful. And decay characteristics vary with the different acoustic properties of different halls.

These individual qualities may not be significantly beyond the capabilities of reproducing systems but adding these characteristics together makes it very easy for me to tell the difference between live and Memorex. It may fly in the face of technical measurements, but that’s the way I hear it.

So, on to the SR1a. How do my different driving options for it fair against my aural recall?
The equipment lineup used: Emotiva ERC-3 both AES and Coax out to Yggdrasil 2 inputs, and out to Jotunheim R in both balanced and SE direct modes, and then also with Loki inserted into the SE leg that I can engage or bypass. All analog interconnects were Straight Wire Symphony IIC for consistency, (I like the sound I get and they are not expensive, are well built, and come with nice connectors). Note: I leave Loki “ON” when in bypass mode per Jason’s suggestion.

Results were kind of what I anticipated.
Running balanced into the R came closest to defining some of those qualities I experience in the concert with the exception of the deepest bass sounds (not that the bass was better with the interface). SE direct or with Loki “in” or “bypassed” inserted was about or almost exactly the same, maybe a hair less pure sounding but certainly nothing to stress over or a reason to proclaim balanced a superior approach for home listening (but I do like XLR connectors over RCA connectors, personal preference). If balanced has an edge to my way of hearing its perhaps the potential for a slightly better crosstalk performance (speculation on my part) and any effect that may have on imaging and soundstage, but the recording quality also determines a lot of that as well. The balanced input did, on a few occasions, add a slight amount of edgy-ness to the highs with some recordings but it improved significantly with additional hours of burn-in. The improvement in the highs was the most notable change to the sound of the “R” with increasing hours of playing time. Otherwise the sound is as clean and clear and detailed as can be on either balanced or SE inputs through the “R”.

Then I insert Loki on the SE leg, engage it, and things changed.
Inserting Loki (and the additional meter of interconnect required) didn’t seem to lessen the transparency much if at all. But when I engaged Loki at 20 Hz, “wow”, the push of air, the oomph at the very bottom, so right, so seductive, and so addictive. The sounds character now was of slightly softened, especially in the highs, and it had an overall relaxed, luxuriant, involving sound that was still nicely detailed and resolving to go along with that “wow” bass. I’ve tried Loki with my other phones and amps in the past but the result was usually a tendency towards too much of a good thing in the bottom end. And in truth, I don’t feel my Utopia or 1266 Phi, or even HD800S get any benefit from Loki in the lows, they sound fine to me as is with the right amps driving them. My HD800 did benefit a bit but still, in top to bottom sound, the SR1a couldn’t be beat for me with just a bit of help with that 20Hz knob. The SR1a works very well with a little EQ’ing on the bottom end and continues to sound clean and undistorted. I found no need to play with Loki’s other frequency settings but as I think about it, could a balanced version of Loki or some other balanced equalizer……hmmm? (Can’t just leave well enough alone, can I?). I noticed the same improvements to the deepest bass with my chosen tracks from the Chesky Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc and others, with Loki and the SR1a. It’s not that the SR1a by itself doesn’t do bass well; it’s just that in my case and with my music and for a few instruments, I like a little more weight on the bottom end. Again, that’s my personal preference. And I want to be clear, the differences I mention above (with the exception of deep bass) with respect to balanced vs. SE, with or without Loki, and other characteristics are extremely slight.

[Sidebar on EQ’ing: From 1970 when I started down the Hi-Fi road to sometime in the early 90’s there were numerous hi-end brick and mortar audio stores to visit. A recession or two closed up many except some in mostly urban settings. Coupled with the new-fangled flat screen TV stores with cheaply priced and even cheaper sounding surround systems and subsequent incursion of Big Box stores followed by moves toward direct internet sales, they all combined to spell the death knell for many audio only Hi-Fi shops. During that earlier period it was not unusual for me to spend a Saturday a month hobnobbing with owners and sales personnel and other regular denizens at those stores. One of my favorite past times was sitting quietly on the sidelines when a new prospect came in to the store. Their inquiry was typically along the lines of “I want to put together a system that is accurate, neutral”. Turns out in most cases that’s not what they wanted at all, they were really looking for “crisp highs and lot’s a bass” to get the sound the way they liked it best. Of course audiophile purists eschewed the use of tone controls or equalizers. Over time my position on EQ developed into “if I can do without fine, if it can help get the sound more to my liking without fouling up the sound in some other way, why not”?]

The improvements to deep bass with EQ and the “R” were similar as when using my Ragnarok 1 or PrimaLuna with Loki and the SR1a with interface, but results are even a little better with the arrival of “R”.

I suspect pushing the volume and Loki’s 20Hz setting too high at too high a volume could do some damage to the ribbon but I don’t listen at levels that might do that (or so I hope).

It is possible that more play time will improve the deep bass without EQ , but I kind of doubt it, or my brain will reset itself to accept what I hear as more correct, maybe. If it sounds like I’m waffling on the subject of whether the SR1a needs EQ to meet my preferences, you’re right, I am. Sometimes yes, and sometimes no, boils down to almost a recording by recording decision and not surprisingly many analog sourced recordings benefited the most, many all-digital recordings required little or no EQ at the bottom. Fortunately, with the “R” I can switch from balanced to SE, with or without Loki engaged, as quickly as I can move two toggle switches and adjust the volume.

It’s probable that different electronics will lead to different results. Different interconnects might as well. I have several significantly more expensive cable sets I can try at a later date; they could make a positive or negative difference, or no difference at all. I’m not really in a rush to put myself thru that gauntlet.

Now, what about that interface box? I found it less transparent than the “R”. But, I thoroughly enjoyed the sound of it for 90+ days with either my Ragnarok 1 or my PrimaLuna EVO400, and Loki when I felt it was needed. This headphone was a keeper for me with the interface before I was aware of the possibility of “R”. But pitting the interface against the “R” made it clear to me that the “R” was the way to go. The “R” is both refined and forthright in its sound capabilities with the SR1a. I also wonder, as other posters have mentioned here and elsewhere, does / would the interface compromise the sound of conventional high power amplifiers, even those costing mega-bucks? But listening to the SR1a with the interface was still a fully satisfying experience for me.

February 2, 2020 (after a few more days of listening and burn-in)
Rather than listen to 10 hours of talking heads repeating a lot of hot air about today’s Super Bowl, I’ve decided to wrap up my first week with Jotunheim R plus SR1a and revisit my initial thoughts and recordings until kickoff. I was around 125 hours at the end of today’s session on the “R” and well over 300 on the SR1a due to my accelerating burn-in on the “R”, and I don’t believe things will change sound wise at this point.

My take at the end of this week is the same as at the start except for the previously mentioned improvements in the highs with playing time that has also been noted by other posters. While SR1a + Jotunheim R combo may not be the best solution for all listeners and all genres of music, it is for me with classical, Classic Rock, and Jazz. EQ’ing at 20Hz with Loki gives me the ability to tailor the lows to my liking on a disc by disc basis. The sound of stringed instruments on this combo is unparalleled for texture, smoothness and a very realistic sound (if the recording is honest). And piano sound, one of the most difficult instruments to record and reproduce, is about as good as I’ve ever heard. Voices come across as extremely life-like, and I could go on and on but…

[Another Sidebar: I played piano and violin (and still have it) as a youngster and my father was a classically trained pianist. But the allure of the baseball & football field & basketball court and other sports ended what would most likely not have been a promising career for me as a musician anyway.]

All things considered and speculated upon the direct drive “R” appears to be the current best option for me, with or without EQ, for my SR1a. And, at $150.00 the Loki is not really a bank account breaker. Also, we now know RAAL|requisite will release their own direct drive amplifier soon and while certainly not in the mega-buck category price wise it will apparently be 4 times more expensive than the “R”, but like the SR1a itself, it is being built for the pro recording market more than consumer audio market and that may have something to do with the design, build, and cost.

In closing, the biggest issue I have with the SR1a is its naming. I keep transposing the “S” and the “R” when I type them probably as I’ve also got “R”AAL|requisite buried in the back of my head. Such are the trials and tribulations of an audiophile, LOL. And so;

1. Does the SR1a replicate the concert hall experience for me? No. But neither does any other transducer and collection of electronics & cabling I’ve heard with the music I listen to. But with the “R” and Loki it comes satisfyingly closer for me than several other options I’ve experienced to date (not that I’ve heard or owned all of the best available headphone and amping options).
2. As to whether To EQ or To Not EQ the SR1a & Jotunheim R combo with Loki? The answer for me is…………Yes!
finis

Long time lurker, first time caller.


Been playing with my pair for about a week. Have tried running Jotunheim R directly from my Bifrost (prior model, SE output only), as well as with Valhalla 2 and Loki in the chain. I did some A/B comparison with Valhalla in the mix and could barely noticed a difference. Currently running Bifrost > Loki > Jotunheim. So far my only complaint would be experiencing what I presume is the bass clipping issue that some have mentioned in this thread (distortion in bass, when playing at higher volume levels - at around 12 or 1 o'clock on Jotunheim's dial). If I boost the bass some with Loki, it's even more pronounced. I've heard mention of needing to compensate when boosting bass with EQ... Is that only an issue when using software?

Curious to see any changes balanced would bring to the mix as some of my other components get upgraded and I can run balanced. Not sure if Gungnir (and with it, balanced output) and a freya peramp would help with the distortion at louder volumes issue, or it it's just a limitation on the Jot-R. If anyone else has recommendations I'm all ears.

 

[Ciggavelli]

Long time lurker, first time caller.


Been playing with my pair for about a week. Have tried running Jotunheim R directly from my Bifrost (prior model, SE output only), as well as with Valhalla 2 and Loki in the chain. I did some A/B comparison with Valhalla in the mix and could barely noticed a difference. Currently running Bifrost > Loki > Jotunheim. So far my only complaint would be experiencing what I presume is the bass clipping issue that some have mentioned in this thread (distortion in bass, when playing at higher volume levels - at around 12 or 1 o'clock on Jotunheim's dial). If I boost the bass some with Loki, it's even more pronounced. I've heard mention of needing to compensate when boosting bass with EQ... Is that only an issue when using software?

Curious to see any changes balanced would bring to the mix as some of my other components get upgraded and I can run balanced. Not sure if Gungnir (and with it, balanced output) and a freya peramp would help with the distortion at louder volumes issue, or it it's just a limitation on the Jot-R. If anyone else has recommendations I'm all ears.

I had bass clipping and distortion too. @BrowChan suggested that it might be due to my WA33 being used as a pre-amp. I had the volume on the WA33 at 12 o’clock and then used the Jot R at like 10 o’clock too and got distortion/clipping on very low bass notes.

I fixed that issue by putting the wa33 at 9 o’clock and then the JotR at 12. No clipping anymore at all

 

[BrowChan]

I had bass clipping and distortion too. @BrowChan suggested that it might be due to my WA33 being used as a pre-amp. I had the volume on the WA33 at 12 o’clock and then used the Jot R at like 10 o’clock too and got distortion/clipping on very low bass notes.

I fixed that issue by putting the wa33 at 9 o’clock and then the JotR at 12. No clipping anymore at all

Would definitely like to know what that sounds like (should be awesome), haha. I used to do something like that (but by controlling my laptop audio output volume, not pre-amp) with Arya and other cans that distorted when EQing the bass up. I hope there wasn’t any catch as I assume tweaking the pre-amp outputs better results.
I wonder if Torq did something similar to yours since you said you were able to fix it.

 

[dieslemat]

@Ciggavelli @Marax - which tracks did you experience the bass distortion? And can you specific the time also. I would like to test mine.

also did youtest the bass distortion without the Jotunheim R but rather using the resistor box?

 

[Ciggavelli]

@Ciggavelli @Marax - which tracks did you experience the bass distortion? And can you specific the time also. I would like to test mine.

also did youtest the bass distortion without the Jotunheim R but rather using the resistor box?

Pretty much this entire album:

(Lil Baby - My Turn)

It's very bass-heavy. "Heatin up" and "No Sucka" would be some good tracks to try

 

[tunes]

Pretty much this entire album:

(Lil Baby - My Turn)

It's very bass-heavy. "Heatin up" and "No Sucka" would be some good tracks to try

With such a high level system and Jot-R designed for the SR1a this bass clipping really needs to be addressed or many will not want to consider buying this over a STAX system with clean non-clipping bass response.

 

[Ciggavelli]

With such a high level system and Jot-R designed for the SR1a this bass clipping really needs to be addressed or many will not want to consider buying this over a STAX system with clean non-clipping bass response.

I have solved the problem though. You have to have your preamp only at like 25% volume (at least for my WA33). I haven't had any problems with that album since (I had my preamp at 50% volume before).

 

[rkw]

With such a high level system and Jot-R designed for the SR1a this bass clipping really needs to be addressed or many will not want to consider buying this over a STAX system with clean non-clipping bass response.

It was basically a user error .

He connected the output of one preamp (WA33) into the input of a second preamp (Jot-R, which is a preamp+amp). When connecting two preamps together, you have to make sure that the first preamp doesn't overdrive the input of the second preamp, but that was exactly what happened. The volume control of the first preamp needs to be adjusted so that its output stays within a normal line level range.

 

[dieslemat]

It was basically a user error .

He connected the output of one preamp (WA33) into the input of a second preamp (Jot-R, which is a preamp+amp). When connecting two preamps together, you have to make sure that the first preamp doesn't overdrive the input of the second preamp, but that was exactly what happened. The volume control of the first preamp needs to be adjusted so that its output stays within a normal line level range.

I believe I read somewhere, and this is how I did it, max out the Jotunheim R, then have the input preamp (1st pre amp) to controller the volume

Freya > Jotunheim R

With the Jotunheim R’s pot at max.
Then the Freya will be the variable.

 

[thomaskong78]

I am back to comparing Sr1a driven by Jot R and Stax 009s driven by Kgsshv Carbon amp.

The source is Dave and HMS using ripped CD stored in SSD of Cocktail Audio X30 music server.

In general I prefer Sr1a to 009s with open any dynamic sound.

But when I play Paganini Violin sonata,009s give more nuanced details and natural tone of violin.


I had not tried any tube preamp in front of Jot R.

I may try Freya someday.

About three months ago, I had tried Rogue Cronus Magnum II with Sr1a to get overall pleasing sound but with occasional clipping at climax of orchestral music.

I will keep both Sr1a and Stax 009s since each has its own advantage.

 

[Nik]

Try the Sr1a with a 200 watt SS amplifier, but top quality... and your Stax can stay on the desktop... IMHO

 

[dieslemat]

Anyone tried putting a Schiit Saga infront of the Jotunheim R? I did it with a Freya. Just wondering if anyone can share their experience with Saga, or any other dedicated pre-amp

 

[thomaskong78]

Try the Sr1a with a 200 watt SS amplifier, but top quality... and your Stax can stay on the desktop... IMHO

I do not think so.

About 30 years ago, I had hard time choosing between Apogee Duetta Sig(ribbon speaker) and Martin Logan CLX.

Ribbon has advantage in open and dynamic sound while Electro Static has advantage in nuanced treblle.

Since I can afford to keep both, I will choose one of them depending on genre of music.