RAAL 1995 Immanis
Oct 9, 2024 at 2:32 AM Post #2,792 of 3,305
Folks, I've moderated some posts but leaving this as the final say as this is getting off-topic. What you all are discussing is nothing new in this ~2.5 decade forum, and nothing revolutionary. Furthermore whilst some of the earlier posts may have been tolerated, this is drifting quite off topic. Feel free to search in HF as there'll be tonne of other posts like this over the past 20 years, and should you feel you need to continue, head over to the Sound Science forum section instead.

Otherwise, let' stay on track on the Immanis.
Too many new members don't know their history. The whole thing is exhausting.
 
Oct 9, 2024 at 2:52 AM Post #2,793 of 3,305
Interesting and daring article by @chrisyak about the professional hatred around Immanis...
This mirrors a lot of my thoughts about the divisiveness around this topic.

https://www.androidheadlines.com/un...tics-rushed-judgments-and-hidden-agendas.html

(Posting here as a gentle topic of discussion. I really don't want to start any flame wars— I'm quite tired of being beat down for sharing my opinion)
That article really over-dramatized the situation.
While the core message of "trust your own ears" is very agreeable, the whole wrap up of the reviewer situation is not.
"Rotten to the core"?, like c'mon, that sounds like brain rot on the authors side to me.

he made it sound like said influencers were totally bashing the headphone and selling their short show impressions as full reviews.
Which they did not. They've been very clear about the circumstances of their assessment.
@Resolve and @GoldenSound have also not formally reviewed the immanis in anyway, with Resolve making a couple statements he isn't a big fan in quick impressions from shows. Thats a rushed judgement? If he was doing a full official review off of 5 minutes of listening, then I could see the authors point.

If we aren't able to post quick impressions from shows, positive or negative, then whats the point..of any of this?
Exactly. Especially as reviewer you get a ton of questions like "how Was headphone xyz", which they can't just ignore.
As reviewers they should be more cautios with extreme descriptions like "this is the best" or "this is trash". However their opinion on the Immanis is nowhere that extreme.

Although I very much disagree with their impressions of Immanis, I do respect both Resolve and GoldenSound and their general opinions on audio.

It is very much possible that the setup/chain that they demoed on Immanis was not ideal. It is also very much possible that they listened to a defective unit.
No the setup/chain Was just fine. I've also been there. The only issue could be described as the source being a mere A&,K DAP, but that same issue applied to everything else on display
 
Oct 9, 2024 at 2:58 AM Post #2,794 of 3,305
Interesting and daring article by @chrisyak about the professional hatred around Immanis...
This mirrors a lot of my thoughts about the divisiveness around this topic.

https://www.androidheadlines.com/un...tics-rushed-judgments-and-hidden-agendas.html

(Posting here as a gentle topic of discussion. I really don't want to start any flame wars— I'm quite tired of being beat down for sharing my opinion)
The author of that write up is a bit dramatic, but I agree that the responsibility of YouTube influencers has grown huge and needs addressing.
I have 6 headphones. I love them all and would be unable to decide which to keep if I had to choose one. In that group is the LCD-4Z, a headphone that goes used for under 2K. It has a bold dark meaty sound which is irresistable to my ears. I prefer it to the Susvara and TC- by alot. 9 out of 10 people would disagree. I understand their reasoning. The 4Z lags behind them in nearly every technical area- but IMHO it betters them in TONE. I'm nuts about the dense dark solid sound and that is more important to me that the other technicalities it may lag in. It just moves my emotions in a way that the others don't. I think most reasonable people out there could respect and understand my rersoning but still disagree- and I accept that.... Dont lie to yourself based on public opinion. Be true to your likes and dislikes and express your opinions in a proper way. We are supposed to be friends and expressing our opinions is part of this friendship.
Good points here. I also like(d) many controversial headphones (4Z, Empy, Elite etc.) and never really cared about negative opinions. Afterall every TOTL headphone has a fanbase and an opposing camp. There is nothing new there.
At the end of the day, we just need to audition everything and don't write something off just based on negative reviews. Also be careful with the hype. :) Audition, audition, audition and follow your ears as opposed to influencers.
 
Oct 9, 2024 at 3:33 AM Post #2,795 of 3,305
Interesting and daring article by @chrisyak about the professional hatred around Immanis...
This mirrors a lot of my thoughts about the divisiveness around this topic.

https://www.androidheadlines.com/un...tics-rushed-judgments-and-hidden-agendas.html

(Posting here as a gentle topic of discussion. I really don't want to start any flame wars— I'm quite tired of being beat down for sharing my opinion)

While I kinda agree that the article's author raised a very good and valid point about possible conflict of interest from reviewers / influencers "employed" by a retailer, I also don't think it's right to act as if the Immanis is exempt from healthy criticism especially when it involves measurement. The article seems to paint the Immanis as the best thing invented since sliced bread. :sweat_smile:
 
Oct 9, 2024 at 5:10 AM Post #2,796 of 3,305
Its a first impression on a fair, Immanis is no golden shining headphone god that deserves different treatment than any other piece of gear - people try stuff, people share their experiences. There is even no review, no bashing, just a reserved comment on a piece of gear during a fair.

Speaking of integrity I find it absolutely out there how easy some people are to accuse others of some kind of melodious intend and motive, when their purchase decisions don’t align with someones opinion.

Yes GS and Resolve are influencers, but its not like there is no trackrecord of good content and reviews and ton of good helpful community member quality content on headfi by both with zero monetary gain. GS input on HQP profiles alone was a BIG contribution for audiophile community. Yes there might (!) be a conflict of interests, but its an asumption (which hey, might be valid) and not a definitive fact like its sometimes presented here. But you are an adult and can decide how to go with it. I would be much more careful about an influencer pushing 10k piece of gear down your throat, during a hype period.
 
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Oct 9, 2024 at 5:33 AM Post #2,797 of 3,305
Well, while it was possible to audition the Immanis in a quiter environment, this entailed leaving the show, jumping on a short Bus ride to a different location and overall meant a big time investment, which they, just like me, probably didn't have to spare.

I agree in some Form that Goldensound, as someone who now has direct ties to some products, can't be considered impartial anymore. However that also holds true for every other summit fi headphone and DAC not only Immanis.
And I Don't only mean it because of the financial ties. The products he is involved with have been tailored to his taste.
I already love the Immanis, but damn would I love an Immanis ThanatosVI Edition, with small changes according to my taste...
 
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Oct 9, 2024 at 5:33 AM Post #2,798 of 3,305
I've owned the Immanis for quite a while and listened to it in my own environment with a few amplifiers and sources.
I don't think it's the BEST all-around headphone. That's why I own other headphones.
However, I do believe that it brings something new to the headphones world that was introduced by the SR-1a/b and now it is a more complete solution.
What the ribbon(s) technology brings is something special that no other headphones I've heard can mimic.

So, for me, they are a game changer in the headphones market and in headphone design and sound.
 
Oct 9, 2024 at 6:27 AM Post #2,799 of 3,305
We’re drifting off topic again…talking about reviewers/influencers' responsibilities, cost of Immanis, etc.

Going forward I'm gonna moderate such posts.

You all really need to move on from such off-topic discussions.
 
Oct 9, 2024 at 8:20 AM Post #2,800 of 3,305
I have 6 headphones. I love them all and would be unable to decide which to keep if I had to choose one. In that group is the LCD-4Z, a headphone that goes used for under 2K. It has a bold dark meaty sound which is irresistable to my ears. I prefer it to the Susvara and TC- by alot. 9 out of 10 people would disagree. I understand their reasoning. The 4Z lags behind them in nearly every technical area- but IMHO it betters them in TONE. I'm nuts about the dense dark solid sound and that is more important to me that the other technicalities it may lag in. It just moves my emotions in a way that the others don't. I think most reasonable people out there could respect and understand my rersoning but still disagree- and I accept that.... Dont lie to yourself based on public opinion. Be true to your likes and dislikes and express your opinions in a proper way. We are supposed to be friends and expressing our opinions is part of this friendship.
I loved the 4Z also. But still preferred my SusOG. I had a hard time selling it. But had to make some choices to compensate for DAC upgrades.
 
Oct 9, 2024 at 11:54 AM Post #2,802 of 3,305
We’re drifting off topic again…talking about reviewers/influencers' responsibilities, cost of Immanis, etc.

Going forward I'm gonna moderate such posts.

You all really need to move on from such off-topic discussions.
Yes, please, let's move on to what makes all of us headphone aficionados!
 
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Oct 9, 2024 at 2:28 PM Post #2,804 of 3,305
On the topic of how flatness of FR (among other things) influences the presentation...

As many of you already know, there are Convolution filters by Mitch from Accurate Sound for SR-1 and CA-1 headphones.

You could have a perfectly flat (within reason) response of those two headphones, but how close that flat FR has brought them together, it's up to each listener to decide, but it didn't make them sound the same.
Also, neither the other 20 different headphones that Mitch made the filters for, sound the same after the filter is applied.

Now, has that bringing to FR flatness improved the presentation of many of those headphones for a good number of people? Yes of course, no doubt about that.

If the wish would be to have almost perfectly flat response, that wish can be easily granted by Mitch.

It is just a matter of a few weeks when we will be able to send Mitch the new headphones, as that has been arranged long ago, so once he's done, everyone can try how that works.

So, if you are sensitive to what sort of deviations from a perfectly flat response that I used to create a certain presentation I wanted, you are definitely not bound to it.

You will be able to try how FR accuracy competes to my "artistic interpretation" and if you would prefer it, I would only give you a friendly nod, as I was just like that until maybe 5 years ago and I can't go against notions that my younger self held quite high. It's pretty much just a matter of what phase as an audiophile you're in.

This also means that using the FR to judge the SQ of headphones is rendered irrelevant, as Mitch can get you any headphone FR-flat, literally any.

As I've said before, new tools are available, DSP can change the game, so I'll go with my own feeling of what is a good presentation and offer that.
Nowadays, FR accuracy (and then some) can be achieved with DSP, so fussing about FR really makes no sense. There already are well established speaker companies like Kii, Dutch&Dutch that rely on DSP and there's nothing to measure about them, you will learn nothing of their sound by doing so.

We are able to incorporate objective accuracy into our products, courtesy of Accurate Sound, as we look into what future brings and we welcome it.

All manufacturers are welcome to endorse what Mitch does and I don't know how's that going, but I certainly do.
Trading FR graphs around the web has no point any more for me, as you can easily choose to enjoy objective accuracy with our ribbon headphones. Been there, done that, and we're about do it again.
Simply, we're not going to leave any potential quality gains unexplored and not offer it to our audience.

(Sorry if this post seems to broken up, but I've had several phone conversations since I started writing it 3 hours ago, so many other thought have been interrupting the train of thoughts for this post)
 
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Oct 9, 2024 at 2:32 PM Post #2,805 of 3,305
On the topic of how flatness of FR (among other things) influences the presentation...

As many of you already know, there are Convolution filters by Mitch from Accurate Sound for SR-1 and CA-1 headphones.

You could have a perfectly flat (within reason) response of those two headphones, but how close that flat FR has brought them together, it's up to each listener to decide, but it didn't make them sound the same.
Also, neither the other 20 different headphones that Mitch made the filters for, sound the same after the filter is applied.

Now, has that bringing to FR flatness improved the presentation of many of those headphones for a good number of people? Yes of course, no doubt about that.

If the wish would be to have almost perfectly flat response, that wish can be easily granted by Mitch.

It is just a matter of a few weeks when we will be able to send Mitch the new headphones, as that has been arranged long ago, so once he's done, everyone can try how that works.

So, if you are sensitive to what sort of deviations from a perfectly flat response that I used to create a certain presentation I wanted, you are definitely not bound to it.

You will be able to try how FR accuracy competes to my "artistic interpretation" and if you would prefer it, I would only give you a friendly nod, as I was just like that until maybe 5 years ago and I can't go against notions that my younger self held quite high. It's pretty much just a matter of what phase as an audiophile you're in.

This also means that using the FR to judge the SQ of headphones is rendered irrelevant, as Mitch can get you any headphone FR-flat, literally any.

As I've said before, new tools are available, DSP can change the game, so I'll go with my own feeling of what is a good presentation and offer that.
Nowadays, FR accuracy (and then some) can be achieved with DSP, so fussing about FR really makes no sense. There already are well established speaker companies like Kii, Dutch&Dutch that rely on DSP and there's nothing to measure about them, you will learn nothing of their sound by doing so.

We are able to incorporate objective accuracy into our products, courtesy of Accurate Sound, as we look into what future brings and we welcome it.

All manufacturers are welcome to endorse what Mitch does and I don't know how's that going, but I certainly do.
Trading FR graphs around the web has no point any more for me, as you can easily choose to enjoy objective accuracy with our ribbon headphones. Been there, done that, and we're about do it again.
Simply, we're not going to leave any potential quality gains unexplored and not offer it to our audience.

(Sorry if this post seems to broken up, but I've had several phone conversations since I started writing it 3 hours ago, so many other thought have been interrupting the train of thoughts for this post)
What is flat?
I mean how you define what flat FR of headphone is.
 
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