Questions about the K1000

[003]

As you all should know by now, I have a K1000 on the way, but I've got some questions about it. Two questions that a lot of people seem to disagree on.

First, imaging. Does the K1000 have good imaging (better than the HD650)? I know everybody agrees they have an ENORMOUS soundstage, but I have seen a lot of conflicting opinions about the imaging. Some have said their imaging is amazing, and only rivaled and/or beaten by high-end electrostats, where as others say imaging is one of their weak points. What is the truth about imaging? I am going to go out on a limb and assume it depends on how they are amped. But I would like more input on this, and what type of amping works well for them.

Second, the bass. Now, I am no basshead, and I have gotten tired of the flabby bass from the HD650 and muffled sound. Most people agree that the bass on the K1000 rolls off at around 45-50Hz. Now that is all fine and good, but in laymans terms, what will that do to the sound? Other people have said that the bass that it does have is incredibly accurate, tight and controlled. Again, I assume it will largly have to do with the type of amping. And again, what would the best type of amping be for the bass?

Next, about the sound. If I am using an all solid state power amp, and an all tube preamp, will that give me a good taste of what tubes have to offer and what solid state has to offer?

Everything else seems good.

 

[PeeeMeS]

I'm only going to comment on the 2nd one


The bass sounds a lot like the bass you would get from electrostat speakers. There's no impact.

 

[003]

Does it sound bad?

 

[PeeeMeS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 Does it sound bad?

Well do you like impact?
Some people prefer the less harsh, less impact, more electrostatic type bass.
Others prefer bass with so much impact, your head gets a free massage

The 2 other head-fiers who tried my K1000s had these opinions:
1: Didn't seem to care either way, liked overall sound of K1000s
2: Would have prefered more K701ish bass, but could definitely live with the K1000 forever


I can't imagine anyone prefering bass-heavy hip-hop music with the K1000s, but tastes do vary.

 

[003]

Ok, thanks. I've never heard an electrostatic speaker, btw. Oh wait, yes I have heard an electrostatic speaker, and it sounded damn good, but it was paired with a sizeable sub.

Is the K1000 bass like some say, very tight and controlled?

And does it make you feel, like some say "this is it?"

 

[jjcha]

I wouldn't worry too much about K 1000 bass.

Relative to the A900LTD or SR225, yes, with most amps, there will be a lesser amount of bass. It will just sound less weighty, like there's less body there.

A900LTD's bass isn't particularly tight or defined, so for me, the K 1000 is superior in the bass department, despite it being rolled off on the bottom octave (something that doesn't bother me personally, though it bothers some) and having a less amount. I'm a big fan of the SR225, and I think it does great with bass. I think if you really absolutely need your bass, you may find the K 1000 lacking relative to the SR225, but for me, and I'm guessing most people, the strengths of the K 1000 show why it is the superior headpnhone.

I'm puzzled about PMS's assertation it sounds like electrostat bass. Obviously, he's never heard the Omega 2. But I suppose it's not dissimilar to my SR-X in terms of being rolled off and not having the same presence in the bottom end.

As for imaging versus soundstaging - well, honestly, I don't think the K 1000 has absolutely the widest soundstaging. That still goes to the 010 for me, though the K 1000 can go pretty darned wide. For me it's got a nice full spread across left to right - it's the opposite of the Sennheiser HD650 "3 blobs" you can get when that can isn't amped very well.

Honestly, I've not found the right combo to get the K 1000 imaging as well as I would hope. Sometimes I feel I've found better imaging synergies with my W10VTG or L3000. The 010 is still the king for me for imaging as well. But there have been times I've been very impressed, seduced, by K 1000 imaging, so I know it's capable of it. I just suspect it takes a well put together rig to bring it out to its best, which is something I have yet to do.

So, I find this aspect of the K 1000 is very amp dependent. The right amp can widen, deepen and define the K 1000's imaging. It's almost always nicely full, even out of something like a T-Amp. Just the question of how wide and defined.

Good luck. I wouldn't worry too much about your purchase. You're going ot have a lot of fun.

Best regards,

-Jason

 

[003]

Thanks, this is great to hear, and I'm not a bass head so I doubt that will bother me. What I'm worried about is that I'm not exactly sure what "rolled off" means, and when I hear it, I am thinking that it will distort or something when you try to play bass that it cant properly play. How does it do with louder volumes?

 

[tmarshl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 As you all should know by now, I have a K1000 on the way, but I've got some questions about it. Two questions that a lot of people seem to disagree on. First, imaging. Does the K1000 have good imaging (better than the HD650)? I know everybody agrees they have an ENORMOUS soundstage, but I have seen a lot of conflicting opinions about the imaging. Some have said their imaging is amazing, and only rivaled and/or beaten by high-end electrostats, where as others say imaging is one of their weak points. What is the truth about imaging? I am going to go out on a limb and assume it depends on how they are amped. But I would like more input on this, and what type of amping works well for them. Second, the bass. Now, I am no basshead, and I have gotten tired of the flabby bass from the HD650 and muffled sound. Most people agree that the bass on the K1000 rolls off at around 45-50Hz. Now that is all fine and good, but in laymans terms, what will that do to the sound? Other people have said that the bass that it does have is incredibly accurate, tight and controlled. Again, I assume it will largly have to do with the type of amping. And again, what would the best type of amping be for the bass? Next, about the sound. If I am using an all solid state power amp, and an all tube preamp, will that give me a good taste of what tubes have to offer and what solid state has to offer? Everything else seems good.

I have to agree that the imaging depends a lot on how the K1000s are amped. I have found the FirstWatt F1 current source amplifier by Nelson Pass to be a just about perfect match for these earspeakers.

The tweak that made the most difference in bass for me was the addition of the Stefan AudioArt Equinox hardwire cable for the K1000s. The high-end brightness and sibilance softened just enough, and the bass became very accurate, tight and controlled.

 

[Uncle Erik]

I think the bass is just fine. A little more and a little deeper than the K-501, but controlled and very nice. Not as much as the HD-650, but I think Sennheiser overdoes it a bit.

As for the imaging, I think it's excellent. And I don't know why this hasn't been pointed out, but the imaging changes depending on how far you swing the earpseakers out. Well, that affects the bass, too, as well as other stuff.

You'll see. Put them on your head and experiment for awhile, and you'll understand what's going on. You ought to have a pretty good time with that, as well. It's fun getting used to the K-1000.

 

[robm321]

I agree about the electrostat sound. It has that sound because it doesn't have the reinforcement some other phones use.

I am refering more to electrostat speakers which sound thinner than typical speaker, more airy and have bass that has less impact. If this weren't true they wouldn't be making hybrids like this: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...ganclarity.htm

The bass quality is about as good as it gets very detailed, tight.

Rolled off just means that you won't hear the lowest portion of the bass, but there is enough if you're not a

 

[003]

Alright, and one last thing. I do play the occasional game. Just out of curiosity, how are the K1000s for games?

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 Alright, and one last thing. I do play the occasional game. Just out of curiosity, how are the K1000s for games?

I've never tried it, but games usually require lots of bass, so...

 

[003]

No, serious gaming is all about soundstage and imaging. Bass is nice, but not necessary. And I'm not a basshead.

 

[rshdhead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 Second, the bass. Now, I am no basshead, and I have gotten tired of the flabby bass from the HD650 and muffled sound. Most people agree that the bass on the K1000 rolls off at around 45-50Hz. Now that is all fine and good, but in laymans terms, what will that do to the sound? Other people have said that the bass that it does have is incredibly accurate, tight and controlled. Again, I assume it will largly have to do with the type of amping. And again, what would the best type of amping be for the bass? Everything else seems good.

I just tested RS1. 60Hz/80db.......40Hz/75db.....30Hz/70db in weighting-c. You can try to boost 5db at 50Hz and below to check if bass improved. Some phones do nothing, some phones improve, while others cause distortion.

Now I know why Rob said GS1000 has better bass. I would guess RS1 has tighter and more rounded bass than GS1000 that may has deeper bass because RS1 does not spread too much energy below 30Hz.

Frankly, if db at 40Hz is 80Hz-20 or worse, then it is a serious drawback. I think most of musics expect speakers/phones should have relatively flat response from 40Hz above in bass in weighting-c. To me 35Hz is very enjoyable, 30Hz is nice, 25Hz is ok.

Dont get me wrong. I am looking for a good phone just as serious as you or anyones else. And I dont care who make it.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 No, serious gaming is all about soundstage and imaging. Bass is nice, but not necessary. And I'm not a basshead.

It has soundstage and imaging in spades, so it should work.

There was a thread not to long ago about someone using them only for games. I didn't see it in a search, but I'm not he best at searching