Quest for better sound - What to upgrade?

[aCuria]

i have trouble figuring out the best way to improve my equipment. My gear never sounds as good as they do in the shop, and i have trouble finding the weakest link.

Using this setup now
SourceMarantz CD 6000 OSE
AMPOriginal Master
CansGrado 325i/HD-25-II
SpeakersAego M

Possible upgrades i have been looking at
Xonar Essence STX
DAC1
HD-800
BM5A or Adam A7

With a budget of $1500 what will give me the most mileage? I use headphones say 60% of the time and speakers 40% of the time.

Any suggestions will be appreciated

 

[sonci]

Do you listen on audio CD, or PC audio files?

 

[Kobra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aCuria /img/forum/go_quote.gif My gear never sounds as good as they do in the shop...

Instead of looking at new hardware, try to maximize what you have. Make sure you've positioned and set up your speakers correct (try different distances between each other, toe in - toe out, height in relation to you your ears, etc. etc) .

I'd guess that one of the biggest differences between your home and the shop is speaker placement and damping, do some experimenting to see if you can get better sound (no collaboration, just a good read)

Though if you absolutely feel the need to burn some $, I'd look into adding a DAC to your mix, with your budget you'll be able to get a real killer!

 

[Uncle Erik]

I'd go for new speakers. Look for used ones at Audiogon - you'll save a stack of money. The HD-800 probably is very good, but I got a pair of Quads for $650. I was looking at Magnepan 1.6QR speakers for about $1,000 last night. I've seen Klipsch LaScalas go around $1,500 used. There are some blue chip, classic speakers for the same price or less than the HD-800. After much thought and deliberation, I put my 2009 audio budget into Speaker-Fi than into the new models. It just made more sense and I have zero regrets from the Quads.

 

[iriverdude]

I'd second new speakers. They're basically good for PC but not Hi-Fi.

 

[aCuria]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonci /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you listen on audio CD, or PC audio files?

Both actually. I listen to mostly PC audio files, and rip all the CDs I buy to flac with eac

 

[aCuria]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobra /img/forum/go_quote.gif Instead of looking at new hardware, try to maximize what you have. Make sure you've positioned and set up your speakers correct (try different distances between each other, toe in - toe out, height in relation to you your ears, etc. etc) . I'd guess that one of the biggest differences between your home and the shop is speaker placement and damping, do some experimenting to see if you can get better sound (no collaboration, just a good read) Though if you absolutely feel the need to burn some $, I'd look into adding a DAC to your mix, with your budget you'll be able to get a real killer!

Speakers are a good idea but note I do not have a dac or a soundcard or even a preamp. I intend to get that asus soundcard soon, am not sure how much of an advantage something like the dac1 will be over that card. If I go for something like the dynaudio bm5a, which does not need a preamp, how will the volume control work out of the soundcard? Or will I still need an amp for the volume control.

 

[terrymx]

Powered monitors have internal amping and the volume controller on the speaker itself so you can connect your soundcard directly to the monitor, that's the point it. I haven't personally used too many of them, but maybe the monitor you're getting has a way to connect directly to the main amp section or a direct button that skip the preamp section, then you can use your sound card as the sole volume controller, which also isn't a good idea if you can only do from within the computer and not a physical knob, which could result in accidentally blasting the speaker. Yes I'm making this more complicated than it needed to be, but it's very late right now.

 

[aCuria]

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrymx /img/forum/go_quote.gif Powered monitors have internal amping and the volume controller on the speaker itself so you can connect your soundcard directly to the monitor, that's the point it. I haven't personally used too many of them, but maybe the monitor you're getting has a way to connect directly to the main amp section or a direct button that skip the preamp section, then you can use your sound card as the sole volume controller, which also isn't a good idea if you can only do from within the computer and not a physical knob, which could result in accidentally blasting the speaker. Yes I'm making this more complicated than it needed to be, but it's very late right now.

the bm5a does not have a volume controller i'm afraid, so i am not too sure how this will work

 

[sonci]

If you dont like the sound of your HiFi separates, you cant improve by adding PC audio, at least in theory, though by using PC you can use various software equalizers,
Nothing against the Xonar, but it cant compare to a Marantz source or an high end DAC.
You should test several speakers with your amplifier(I know this is impossible..

)

Best thing to do, that worked for me, is to listen to what you have, after some time, if you listen to good music you gona like your gear...

 

[terrymx]

I think a cheaper solution is you could get a DAC that has a knob and USB connection to the computer, to be used both as a source and headphone amp, but can be connected to the monitor to control volume. You can even use cheap a CMoy as preamp for the monitor if you already have a good source.

If you are going passive speaker direction, you would still need to get an amp to drive the passive speaker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonci /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you dont like the sound of your HiFi separates, you cant improve by adding PC audio, at least in theory, though by using PC you can use various software equalizers

Also by altering the space. I heard a typical monitor in a squared box room and then the same one in recording studio, which has unparallel walls, arch ceiling and acoustic damping. The difference is so huge that it blew my mind, well besides the more expensive equipment that was use. So in theory he could build a new house to accomodate his sound system to improve the sound. Although I may be missing the point by suggesting this alternative.

 

[smallcaps]

my vote is go with a good DAC. they are quite useful and for your budget you can get a beauty. also because this is head-fi, you could go for a certain pair of headphones that cost around $1500

 

[Kobra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aCuria /img/forum/go_quote.gif Speakers are a good idea but note I do not have a dac or a soundcard or even a preamp.

Yeah, I noticed -that was why I recommended you to get a DAC (preferably a USB DAC that you can use with both your PC and your CD-player).
Quote:

I intend to get that asus soundcard soon, am not sure how much of an advantage something like the dac1 will be over that card.

The Asus Essence STX is a very good card, I currently have the DX but I've tested the STX and will upgrade to it in the very near future. The benefit of getting a external USB DAC is that you will be able to connect your Marantz CD 6000 OSE to it to get a improvement in sound quality. There's some pretty good DAC's that's cheaper than the Asus STX, but equal or better in sound quality. I'm currently researching the Audiotrak Dr.DAC2 (about $200 on eBay) and the Audiotrak Prodigy Cube (about $100 on eBay), both of these cards have a supposedly good headphone amp (read reviews and previews in the "portable amp" section) and it's possible to swap the op-amps in both of 'em so you can tweak them to your liking and to match your speakers/headphones.
Quote:

If I go for something like the dynaudio bm5a, which does not need a preamp, how will the volume control work out of the soundcard? Or will I still need an amp for the volume control.

Those speakers are pretty good, I've listened to them

But have you looked at the Dynaudio MC15? Those speakers are a variant of the Dynaudio BM15 studio monitors, they are also active speakers so there's no need for a external amp.

What ever active speaker you end up with, you'll use the Windows volume slider to alter the sound level if you connect the speakers to the Asus card or the volume control of the external DAC (if you go that route).

So, to sum it all up: The Asus might be the better choice if you only like to use your computer as a source, but a external DAC would be better as you could both use it with your existing CD-player and other computers that you might have (a laptop perhaps)

 

[aCuria]

Thanks everyone for the replys =)
Quote:

Originally Posted by sonci /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you dont like the sound of your HiFi separates, you cant improve by adding PC audio, at least in theory, though by using PC you can use various software equalizers, Nothing against the Xonar, but it cant compare to a Marantz source or an high end DAC.

I don’t quite understand this. Is PC Audio that bad? My gut feel tells me that the Xonar will beat my internal sound card and my marantz source, which are decidedly mid-fi. (Correct me if I am wrong though)
Quote:

Originally Posted by sonci /img/forum/go_quote.gif You should test several speakers with your amplifier(I know this is impossible.. ) Best thing to do, that worked for me, is to listen to what you have, after some time, if you listen to good music you gona like your gear...

Well for one I don’t have an amp that powers speakers. The Aego M is a multimedia speaker.
Quote:

Originally Posted by terrymx /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think a cheaper solution is you could get a DAC that has a knob and USB connection to the computer, to be used both as a source and headphone amp, but can be connected to the monitor to control volume. You can even use cheap a CMoy as preamp for the monitor if you already have a good source. If you are going passive speaker direction, you would still need to get an amp to drive the passive speaker. Also by altering the space. I heard a typical monitor in a squared box room and then the same one in recording studio, which has unparallel walls, arch ceiling and acoustic damping. The difference is so huge that it blew my mind, well besides the more expensive equipment that was use. So in theory he could build a new house to accomodate his sound system to improve the sound. Although I may be missing the point by suggesting this alternative.

I will keep the room damping in mind, but there are limits to what I can do. Building a new house is out of the question, and my room is quite small to begin with, which is why I am looking at near field monitors.
Quote:

Originally Posted by smallcaps /img/forum/go_quote.gif my vote is go with a good DAC. they are quite useful and for your budget you can get a beauty. also because this is head-fi, you could go for a certain pair of headphones that cost around $1500

><” Just thinking about the HD-800s makes me feel sorry for my wallet already.
What DAC would you recommend? Something with balanced outputs preferably
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobra /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, I noticed -that was why I recommended you to get a DAC (preferably a USB DAC that you can use with both your PC and your CD-player). The Asus Essence STX is a very good card, I currently have the DX but I've tested the STX and will upgrade to it in the very near future. The benefit of getting a external USB DAC is that you will be able to connect your Marantz CD 6000 OSE to it to get a improvement in sound quality. There's some pretty good DAC's that's cheaper than the Asus STX, but equal or better in sound quality. I'm currently researching the Audiotrak Dr.DAC2 (about $200 on eBay) and the Audiotrak Prodigy Cube (about $100 on eBay), both of these cards have a supposedly good headphone amp (read reviews and previews in the "portable amp" section) and it's possible to swap the op-amps in both of 'em so you can tweak them to your liking and to match your speakers/headphones. Those speakers are pretty good, I've listened to them But have you looked at the Dynaudio MC15? Those speakers are a variant of the Dynaudio BM15 studio monitors, they are also active speakers so there's no need for a external amp. What ever active speaker you end up with, you'll use the Windows volume slider to alter the sound level if you connect the speakers to the Asus card or the volume control of the external DAC (if you go that route). So, to sum it all up: The Asus might be the better choice if you only like to use your computer as a source, but a external DAC would be better as you could both use it with your existing CD-player and other computers that you might have (a laptop perhaps)

Thanks for the heads up on the volume control thing, the MC-15 is not an option, due to strange costing differences. ( I do not live in America ) and I rather have balanced inputs anyway.

Qn: What exactly is the difference between the DAC-1 USB and the DAC-1 PRE? Benchmark’s website is kinda cryptic

Qn2: Does anyone know what kind of power supply the BM5a uses? Can it take 220V? edit Found out, it has a non-switching power supply

 

[Kobra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aCuria /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is PC Audio that bad?

No! A computer built the "right way" can sound really good (or actually it doesn't "sound", but it can reproduce a recorded sound accurately. Some say it can compete with really expensive high end hi-fi gear costing thousands of dollars. I somewhat agree, but like to throw in a heads up that accurate isn't always synonymous with musical) A silent PC (fan less, good shielding, SSD harddrive etc. etc.) is a cost effective base in a hi-fi setup. Though anyone who says this will stand in the line of fire from "the old guard".

Quote:

( I do not live in America )

Neither do I

Quote:

Qn: What exactly is the difference between the DAC-1 USB and the DAC-1 PRE? Benchmark’s website is kinda cryptic

Not much apart that the "PRE" has analogue inputs as well as USB and optical. This makes it attractive to use as a pre-amplifier. As far as I understand the PRE also has LM4562 high-current op-amps throughout entire analog stage in comparison to the usb-version that only has LM4562's in the output stage. I assume this makes the PRE sound a little bit better...