[limpidglitch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbear56 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now to select a descent set of Grados, but which model? Not sure yet. Any opinions out there are very welcome. In the meantime, stay tuned to my detailed analysis of the px 100s and portaPros.

new SR60/SR80 or used SR225.
I see you're in australia, then the used 225s might even be cheaper.

And you guys are seriously tempting me to check out these portapros.

 

[tbear56]

Quote:

Originally Posted by limpidglitch /img/forum/go_quote.gif new SR60/SR80 or used SR225. I see you're in australia, then the used 225s might even be cheaper. And you guys are seriously tempting me to check out these portapros.

Thank you for the info. I'll give all of them a listen to and then make my decision from there.
As for the portaPros, in Australia they are cheap enough to just buy them. Since my last post the portaPros have been burning in all day and about half an hour ago I did some more comparing between the PX 100s and portaPros. I love different types of music and picked the following music tracks - Pink Floyd's Another Brick In The Wall Part 1, Dire Strait's Private Investigations, Andrea Bocelli's Les Feuilles Mortes (featuring Veronica Berti) and a few other selections from known well recorded sources. I chose both demanding tracks and some music which only has a few instruments like flute, pan flute, brass instruments (or parts of tracks) and of course piano is always a good test for any audio equipment.
Anyway, to get to the point, so far, the portaPros have definitely improved even more and I would consequently say that they will probably burn-in in less time than the PX 100s took. Already the gap between the portaPros and PX 100s is becoming more apparent. Bearing in mind that I'm still burning in the portaPros, they are the more exciting listen but they can also handle the delicate stuff too - so a good all rounder. Don't get me wrong, the warm, easy listening, but always detailed sound that the PX 100s present is not at all disappointing, but not as involving. Put it this way - I listen to the PX 100s, but I tap my feet with the portaPros.

But I'll still put another post here once I've truely made up my mind, although I think I already know the answer (and think that you do as well) - the portaPros!!!

Catch you all next week.

 

[mfaughn]

I have a pair of PortaPros that are ~3.5 years old. They were listened to for probably nearly all day, 5 days a week at work for 1.5-2 years. The bass is now flabby as all get out, highs very diminished, but mids are pretty nice (electric guitar is magical on them). A have a pair of KSC-75 that have a handful of hours on them. Although these are very slightly different drivers they are similar enough to make a comparison. The new KSC-75s are VERY different sounding. The highs are there and already losing any shrillness with just a few hours of burn-in, the bass doesn't flop around. I more or less have the same impression as the OP. I too had wondered exactly what he had...do headphones wear out with use (at least portapros that is).

-MF

 

[tbear56]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfaughn /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a pair of PortaPros that are ~3.5 years old. They were listened to for probably nearly all day, 5 days a week at work for 1.5-2 years. The bass is now flabby as all get out, highs very diminished, but mids are pretty nice (electric guitar is magical on them). A have a pair of KSC-75 that have a handful of hours on them. Although these are very slightly different drivers they are similar enough to make a comparison. The new KSC-75s are VERY different sounding. The highs are there and already losing any shrillness with just a few hours of burn-in, the bass doesn't flop around. I more or less have the same impression as the OP. I too had wondered exactly what he had...do headphones wear out with use (at least portapros that is). -MF

As sure as there's death and taxes, everything does have a use by date. What I was trying to explain in my first post on this thread was that any mechanical part within any type of system needs time to burn in, then after burn in, has a period of time when it will sound its best, however the quality of the product will dictate how long it will last at performing at its best. I would say that using the portaPros so often (5 days per week over a 1.5 - 2 year period) is really not bad at all in my opinion, especially when you consider that these are not expensive headphones at all. It specifically really boils down to the quality of the suspension of the transducer and how long the cone or dome can maintain its integrity. In time the suspension will begin to lose its elastricity, the air moving mass will begin to break down and that's when you will notice degradation of the sound you once had.
This very thing usually manifests itself when one day you go to listen to something you are familiar with and feel that it just doesn't sound as good as you remember. That's the time to begin thinking about the component's use by date and the fact that maybe it's been reached.

 

[dwilson9@tiscali]

part of the problem with the PortaPros is the foam pads. Mine are 3 - 4 years old and I noticed the foam was decaying pretty badly where its held to the blue driver frame with the fairly sharp moulded pins. So i bought some new pads and immediately the SQ changed. Where the bass had become flabby and over emphasised it was tighter, the diminished treble slightly brighter than before (with beneficial effect to the sound stage). The materials feel quite different, but that's probably due to the degradation of the original pads.

A cheap and worthwhile upgrade!

 

[tbear56]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwilson9@tiscali /img/forum/go_quote.gif part of the problem with the PortaPros is the foam pads. Mine are 3 - 4 years old and I noticed the foam was decaying pretty badly where its held to the blue driver frame with the fairly sharp moulded pins. So i bought some new pads and immediately the SQ changed. Where the bass had become flabby and over emphasised it was tighter, the diminished treble slightly brighter than before (with beneficial effect to the sound stage). The materials feel quite different, but that's probably due to the degradation of the original pads. A cheap and worthwhile upgrade!

That would be because the transducers are now sitting the originally designed distance from your ears, plus if the pads were starting to "demateralize" it would also mean that it had probably become brittle which would mean that the sound would not pass through the pads as well as when they were new. There are other pad materials which don't go brittle, but "soggy", meaning it loses the air content that it was once capable of holding thereby becoming less transparent to the sound trying to pass through it. Either way, regardless which of these have occurred, the sound naturally suffers.
A partially related topic refers to loudspeakers. One pair of speakers I own are TDL Studio 1 transmission lines - an oldie but a goodie and from your neck of the woods. Whenever I listen to these I take the front grills off and remove the protective steel grills from the tweeter's dome. Admittedly, some grills that cover tweeters are not removable, but those particular tweeters are actually using the grill as either a defusser for the sound or to otherwise smooth out the frequency response to correct an anomoly, or they are using the grill for both purposes. Either way, the difference in sound quality can be totally amazing, but all of this is not rocket science, although certainly an amount of science is involved, but it also is truely an art form of its own. As for cartridges, loudspeakers and headphones, these are the weekest link in the chain, not only because they are electro-mechanical, but their very design is critical in all areas and for headphones, it's the earpads and other components surrounding the transducer, and for loudspeakers it's even more difficult because not only is the cabinet design critical, but so is the room they are going to be used in and that includes where in the room they are going to be placed. For example, a bookshelf loudspeaker is not meant to be put in a bookshelf, but on a stand. Surprisingly, many floorstanding loudspeakers actually also benefit being placed on stands. And putting loudspeakers in a corner is an absolute "no-no" - unless they were specifically designed that way. Klipschorns are a case in point.

 

[tbear56]

Hi all. I'm surprised no one has made any comments to expand this thread, but anyway, now for my opinions on several headphones, including what this thread is really all about - the burn in characteristics of the Sennheiser PX100 and the Koss portaPro as well as PX100 vs portaPro.

I've been doing many comparisons with many different types of music as well as leaving the portaPro just playing music while I go off and do things I need to do so as to burn them in more quickly. The first thing I found is that the portPro burns in a lot quicker than the PX100s did. I would say that the PX100s take at least 50 hours to start sounding even close to their full potential, but to my ears sounded just perceptively better closer to 100 hours. They probably have something close to 200 hours on the clock now.

I liked the sound of the portaPros straight out of the box, however there was a little edginess which bordered on harshness here and there, but the thing that kept me listening to them and not just throwing them in the draw, was a relatively linear frequency response and best of all, the transient attack. Anyway, they would probably have about 150 hours on the clock now, but for the last few days I haven't noticed any sound improvement. I would say that the portaPros are definitely burnt in and reach their best in about 50 hours. So the portaPros will start giving their best in roughly half the time when compared to the PX100s.

To recap, straight out of the box, the PX100s appear laid back with a prominent bass and not a whole lot of top end, almost as if there was a dip in the frequency response around the 8K area and then an over exaggerated airiness in the top end with some music. The conclusion is that the top end does come back to be more linear after the 8K or so dip. I've already mentioned my thoughts of the portaPros straight out of the box, so will not repeat it again here.

So which is best? I guess here I had better explain how each headphone has changed since new. The PX100s got MUCH more linear with its frequency response, so in effect completely lost the "boom box" sound it had from new, and to my ears ended up sounding slightly warm and very smooth sounding with very good extension at both ends of the frequency range. The portaPros on the other hand lost its occasional harshness over time. It already had a well extended bass and good high end, but like the PX100s, everything smoothed out with time.

My summary. The portaPros definitely offer the better sound. Great transient attack, well extended at both ends, a midrange which can "bite" when it should, although with the top end I would say the PX100s extend just that little bit further, but the PX100s with their slightly warm sound may not suit everyone's taste. Put simply, you can play anything through the portaPros and they will excite and impress everytime. The PX100s offer great sound too especially if you wish to listen to orchestral music. This is because they present the warmer sound. The portaPros on the other hand give a nice edge to brass instruments.

I guess the final word is this ... if you listen to orchestral or easy listening music most of the time ... buy the PX100s. Their warmer presentation and generally sweet sound make for a great listen. For those who listen to all other types of music the winner is definitely the portaPros - they get you tapping you toes and very involved in what you are listening to.

I suppose that I haven't really helped you if you listen to ALL types of music as I do. For me, I'll still be listening to the portaPros though ... they are the better all rounder.

Remember this though - whichever of these cheap headphones you do buy - they both have their virtues and good and not so good points. For the price, which in Australia is about the same for either headphone they are the only two which give you total value for money.

Since writing this I've had a listen to several Grado headphones and again, in Australia, the Grado SR60 is probably the better sounding - read more accurate - headphone, but it's slightly more expensive and lacks the deep bass, although what is there is just as accurate. This is where the SR80 comes in to its own - bass extension. Ok, it's more expensive than the PX100s, portaPros and it's younger brother, but as I've also listened to the 125s, 225s RS-1s and even had a go with the GS-1000s, the SR80s offer almost everything these other much more expensive headphones offer, but at a fraction of the price. So it really boils down to your pocket and the equipment you own.

MY FINAL WORD - For an inexpensive headphone, buy the portaPro, but also remember my comments about the PX100s. If you have reasonable equipment and can afford it, buy the SR80 - best value bar none. If you have audiofile grade equipment buy the GS-1000s - if you can afford them!. If you have equipment anywhere in between, try the Grado that suits your pocket - SR80 through to the RS models. Now I say this because I did read somewhere that each Grado is incrementally better than its cheaper brother, and by God, they're not far from 100% correct!!! Admittedly I haven't tried Grado's full range, but believe I took a more than reasonable sampling of their range. I should point that the Grado models I listened to were the "i" models, ie, SR60i, SR80i, etc... AND FINALLY, I did listen to other models from Koss, AKG and Audio Technica and while they all sounded great in their own way, I must admit that I was the most impressed with Grado's consistency between models, and since this thread has nothing to do with headphone reviews of every headphone I've had the pleasure or displeasure of listening to, I only make honourable mention of Grado. What I really mean here, is that if you are in the market for really good headphones, start with Grado as a benchmark and then listen to the other brands in that particular price category.

 

[iancraig10]

This really is puzzling because in direct comparison, the old versions of the px100 and porta pro really sound fatter than my new versions.

Anyway, my daughter flattened my px100 so I am getting another pair so at least I can re-compare the new to the old with a different new one. The sound in both cases is so different that you would think that they are different headphones entirely.

Just for UK people. £17 for both the senn and the porta on Amazon. The px100 was originally priced at £39. They are a bargain.

Ian

 

[tbear56]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iancraig10 /img/forum/go_quote.gif This really is puzzling because in direct comparison, the old versions of the px100 and porta pro really sound fatter than my new versions. Anyway, my daughter flattened my px100 so I am getting another pair so at least I can re-compare the new to the old with a different new one. The sound in both cases is so different that you would think that they are different headphones entirely. Just for UK people. £17 for both the senn and the porta on Amazon. The px100 was originally priced at £39. They are a bargain. Ian

I can't really comment on the old and new versions as it's only recently that I had a need to buy smaller headphones, so the ones I have are the very latest models of each.

You see, when I was a lot younger I had a great sound system and hated listening to headphones. Problem was my mother use to come up to my room and tell me to turn the volume down all the time. I love my mum, but sometimes she was a real pain - still is sometimes. So, to please her and still have good sound I succumbed to her wishes and bought a pair of Maruni headphones. I thought that they didn't sound too bad, but wanted something even better, so purchased some Maruni electrostatics. The electrostatics couldn't go as loud, but the sound was unbelievable, so from then on I was hooked. In fact, I still have both pairs of Marunis. The thing is, that these days I like to go to bed and put headphones on and listen for a while before going to sleep. Trouble was that I couldn't get comfortable laying my head on the pillow with the big Marunis, so I knew I had to source something smaller - enter the PX100s, followed by the portaPros. They are perfect for my needs as now I can lay my head on the pillow and either headphone don't move, nor do they get in the way.

So that's my story. Maybe someone else can comment on the sound from the new and old versions, however, from what I been able to find out, the Koss portaPro have been "reinvented" several times over the years since coming onto the market over 20 years ago. I think the Senn PX100 has had at least one reincarnation since they were released somewhere like 7 to 10 years ago.

Something that I didn't mention in my last post was that I have found that if you listen to the PX100s or portaPros at a low volume level, amazingly it's the PX100s that actually sound better. They appear to maintain their frequency range better than the portaPros. For whatever reason, the portaPros seem to loose a bit of their bottom end composure.

Anyway, sorry I can't help you.

Michael

 

[Peyotero]

Bleh! Deeply sorry for the crapy pic quality. Borrowed some point and shoot Nikon from my neighbour but it turned out to be as noob-ish as my own cell phone cam

Not to mention that I'm a POS myself when it comes to camera's.

The whacky recabled piece are the new drivers and the bottom one is from couple of years back. As you (not so clearly) can see the part where you solder to is made of cooper on the new ones and the old ones are some other kind of metal.

There are some other minor differences but it's not even worth it to try and shoot them. Atleast not until I score that damn overpriced Fujifilm Finepix F31fd or atleast start shootin at day light.

EDIT: tbear56@ yes you are correct about having to crank up the volume with the porta's to get good results. I found a nice fix for this by dressing them up with some donut leather pads. Aside from the crazy SQ imrovement, first thing I noticed is that I only have to go at about 30%/40% volume on my laptop with the donut pads, when with stock I'de have to go as far as 60%/70% (roughly speaking).

SQ wise there's no comparison. It's hard to listen to them stock after you've heared what they really can do..

 

[mfaughn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbear56 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would say that using the portaPros so often (5 days per week over a 1.5 - 2 year period) is really not bad at all in my opinion, especially when you consider that these are not expensive headphones at all.

Can't argue with that at all. I was quite happy with them while they were in service. I just sent them back to Koss on the off chance they will warranty them. The swivels that hold the drivers to the headband wore out and won't really hold the drivers on anymore. I won't be miffed if they decide not to warranty them. Hope they do though

-Michael

 

[tbear56]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peyotero /img/forum/go_quote.gif Bleh! Deeply sorry for the crapy pic quality. Borrowed some point and shoot Nikon from my neighbour but it turned out to be as noob-ish as my own cell phone cam Not to mention that I'm a POS myself when it comes to camera's. The whacky recabled piece are the new drivers and the bottom one is from couple of years back. As you (not so clearly) can see the part where you solder to is made of cooper on the new ones and the old ones are some other kind of metal. There are some other minor differences but it's not even worth it to try and shoot them. Atleast not until I score that damn overpriced Fujifilm Finepix F31fd or atleast start shootin at day light. EDIT: tbear56@ yes you are correct about having to crank up the volume with the porta's to get good results. I found a nice fix for this by dressing them up with some donut leather pads. Aside from the crazy SQ imrovement, first thing I noticed is that I only have to go at about 30%/40% volume on my laptop with the donut pads, when with stock I'de have to go as far as 60%/70% (roughly speaking). SQ wise there's no comparison. It's hard to listen to them stock after you've heared what they really can do..

I'd say that putting the leather donuts on them would probably widen the soundstage and give them a slightly fuller sound as they would have more air around them to breathe (although it could also just as easy have gone the other way, ending in a thinner sound if you went too far - obviously you didn't go too far), hence the need to not have the volume up as much as you needed to before the mods.

 

[tbear56]

Quote:

Originally Posted by limpidglitch /img/forum/go_quote.gif new SR60/SR80 or used SR225. I see you're in australia, then the used 225s might even be cheaper. And you guys are seriously tempting me to check out these portapros.

Thanks for the info. Ended up buying the Grado SR325is. The sound of these are incredible. Even though they are quite expensive headphones, they are worth every single cent and then some.

As for the portaPro/PX100, I still enjoy listening to either of these. Both are such good value. You just have to decide which you like the sound of most. The portaPro's transient attack or the PX100's more laid back approach.

 

[physiophile]

I am sorry to bump this old thread but SQ of PP really can go worse with time, IMHO. I still remember how I am blown away by PP as one who would spend money on a decent pair of headphones for the first time. Yet now after about 9 months or so of extended wear, the sound is flattened and all that impresses me is the bass. All other sound are muddier and less recognizable than when I got PP out of the box.

I enjoy bass a lot but I don't want bass to be overwhelming. Kinda contradictory.

 

[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by physiophile /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am sorry to bump this old thread but SQ of PP really can go worse with time, IMHO. I still remember how I am blown away by PP as one who would spend money on a decent pair of headphones for the first time. Yet now after about 9 months or so of extended wear, the sound is flattened and all that impresses me is the bass. All other sound are muddier and less recognizable than when I got PP out of the box. I enjoy bass a lot but I don't want bass to be overwhelming. Kinda contradictory.

That mirrors my experience. That's why I wondered whether the shelf life of a PP is a little on the the low side.

Ian