PS-1 ~ GS-1000 ~ RS-1 what ya think?
Aug 2, 2006 at 4:32 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 65

robm321

Headphoneus Supremus
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I am curious about the PS-1. I've heard good things about it, but usually from people that don't own the GS-1000 or RS-1 which is usually not the best comparison. I'd rather hear from people that have lived with both to avoid any favoratism. I'm looking for an objective observation this time around.

I talked with a headfier at the last meet about the PS-1 and he said he wasn't as impressed as everyone esle seemed about the PS-1. After listening to a couple of headphones/equipment comparisons with him I realized he was dead on with what my impressions and tastes, so I definately feel we are on the same page (the comparisons weren't with Grado's btw).

I've heard the PS-1 has more bass than the GS-1000 (that's too much for me). I've heard the midrange is incredible (The best midrange I've heard was the RS-1/flats). Is the PS-1 soundstage like the RS series?

Thanks!
 
Aug 2, 2006 at 5:13 PM Post #3 of 65
Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321
I am curious about the PS-1. I've heard good things about it, but usually from people that don't own the GS-1000 or RS-1 which is usually not the best comparison. I'd rather hear from people that have lived with both to avoid any favoratism. I'm looking for an objective observation this time around.

I talked with a headfier at the last meet about the PS-1 and he said he wasn't as impressed as everyone esle seemed about the PS-1. After listening to a couple of headphones/equipment comparisons with him I realized he was dead on with what my impressions and tastes, so I definately feel we are on the same page (the comparisons weren't with Grado's btw).

I've heard the PS-1 has more bass than the GS-1000 (that's too much for me). I've heard the midrange is incredible (The best midrange I've heard was the RS-1/flats). Is the PS-1 soundstage like the RS series?

Thanks!



I have owned the PS-1's, and currently own the Black Dragon GS1's and RS1's...and will try and offer some thoughts..


The bass on the PS-1's is more intense than the the RS1/GS1...and the MR is the most liquiid by itself out of the three...but the catch is,
the GS1 is more liquid across all Frequency ranges..and is more coherent and accurate to the recording, the imaging on the GS1 is superior to the RS1/PS1...as the headstaging is more accurate and evenly distributed, with a distinct 3D quality that the Reference/Professional phones can not compete with. The GS1 is affected by the source moreso than the other cans...and the amp seems to have a signigicant play into the projection of the MR and lower register..

On the Binaural field recording The Promise, the effect is so realistic on the GS1 that you get cold listening..
The thunder rolls and crashes are more realistic and bearing the nec overtones at the boom/crash on the GS1 because of this phone addressing the Lower band more accurately, and due to the imaging of this phone.The Black Dragon GS1000s make this rain storm a reality minus the wet clothes, really. A must hear.

On For Duke, 24kt 20bit Gold CD, listening to Mood Indigo, song two, the realism in the standup bass or Oboe, is startling on the GS1000, and has so much natural thump and pitch to these stringed instruments, that it sounds like you are listening to them play, not music through headphones. The Black Dragon GS1's make me want to cry when I hear this passage..

The headstaging is a magor differentiator bt these 3 phones, and do not want to get carried away with anything, but just thought this may help.

The RS1 is the RS1, there is nothing that the PS1 or GS1 or BDGS1 can do that will match or emulate the raw intimacy, or aggressive MR shredding in your eye hole...this is clear. With some passages and material, these are still the go to cans for most I am sure.

The RS1 VS the stock GS1000 was a closer call than the RS1 VS PS1...where the PS1 was superior to my ears in the lower register and Mid Range compared to the RS1...although more refined than the RS2, the RS1 seems to fall short on tubes or SS in the sheer musicality sense if comparing directly to the PS1, as the Mid Range and bass on the PS1s are something to hear for any serious headphone listener. The RS1 VS the GS1000 stock, however, seemed to be a whole closer to eachother in terms of presentation and headstaging...although a larger image with the stock GS1, the RS1 seemed to everything better or as well as the GS1 stock did...the GS1 had more bass, yes, but was everywhere compared to the RS1s bass, in that it was not tight or focused in its placement in the music. To my ears, the vocals were more distant and lost somewhat in the headstage with the GS1, whereas, when listening to the RS1, you are right there, hearing every part of the song whether you want to or not..with a slight emphasis on the MR bass(hump) and Upper reg (obviously)..The soundstage on the GS1 helps the speed and overall PRAT of the music played and this is its biggest advantage in my opinion over the RS1..Where with complicated passages where the RS1 jockeys for space in the limited headstage, you lose/miss out on details and mechanics that drive supplemental material on the songs...where the GS1000 just plays the difficult passages smooth and clear, and with nice seperation...allowing the listener to concentrate on the music and and illusion of soundfield..instead of determining which instrument and beat goes or is played from where..

The Black Dragon GS1000 VS the PS1 is the tricky one for me to comment on.. I ownded the PS1 for almost a year, but do not have in my possession currently to do a direct AB comp...but have a wicked ill memory so will share nonetheless..the PS1 still has more bass to my recollection than the BDGS1, although not as focused or tight as the BDGS1...the BDGS1 has the same proportion of MR VS HR VS LR in its frequency response, and is truly the most balanced phone JohnG has come up with, this is clear. It is more balanced than the GS1000 stock by a good deal, and its signature is closer to neutral than any Grado phone still for sale currently. The MR compared to the stock GS1 is in your face with detail and volume, and the drivers seem to be opened up more with the BD cable...the bass is more realistic, and the phones' whole presentation is the "air'iest" and most spacious I have heard on dynamic phone..Its realism and speed is unmatched by the stock GS1 nor the PS1/RS1... the speed is behooved greatly by the headstaging capabilities of the BDGS1, in that the instrument placement and origin of vocals for example is accurate and maintained faithfully throughout the songs themselves, giving a true soundfield and audible experience typically associated with speaker listening or live music..
 
Aug 2, 2006 at 5:31 PM Post #4 of 65
I have owned all 3 cans and prefer the ps-1 the most, followed by the rs-1. The ps-1 driver is not glued to the housing so it can be recabled very easily. Contrary to popular belief, the stock grado cables are nothing special and only a little bit better then the stock sennheiser 600 cable (my stock ps-1 cable was converted to a sennheiser replacement cable heh).

Out of your average solid state amp the ps-1 is going to sound way too bassy, on some amps this bass will overwhelm the midrange and ruin the listening experience. Thats why I use a tube amp rolled with some bass light tubes. This adds up to bass that is tight, fast, detailed and goes deeper then either wooden can.

The ps-1 has the most clear midrange, with the 2 wooden cans having similar colouration which polarizes these cans to certain types of recordings, though usually it sounds quit natural. The ps-1 highs are by far the best, the tone is dead on, the treble isn't accentuated and cymbals never get splashy. With the large bowl pads the gs1k has a large treble spike that I quickly found annoying enough to switch to regular bowl pads. The rs-1 treble with bowl pads becomes fatiguing so I always used flat pads with my pair, reducing the amount of treble. The treble of the gs1k and the rs-1 sounds off because the sound is a bit too warm, taking away from the realism.

The place where the ps-1 kills the rs-1 and gs1k the most is in refinement. The ps-1 absolutely nails leading s/t sounds and is able to better grasp the sublties of a singers voice, because of superior delineation leaving the wooden cans seeming a bit smeared in comparison. When I compared the rs-1 to a pair of r10's I heard the same thing.

The ps-1 is a more versatile can then the rs-1 because the soundstage is pulled back a little bit, allowing for a better defined sense of stage and a bit less of that in your face bite grado is famous for. The ps-1 is the can I have heard with the least weaknesses on a properly tuned system.

Comparing all 3 using the same pads, the gs1k has the most bass, followed by the ps-1, with the rs-1 trailing way behind with the least bass. I didn't like the presentation of the gs1k one bit with the big bowls, but with the small bowls I found them to have too much bass. In the end I didn't find them to better my ps-1's in any way so I sent them back.

Biggie.
 
Aug 2, 2006 at 5:43 PM Post #5 of 65
biggie posting some ps-1/gs comparison
finally the time has come
thanks



tongue.gif
 
Aug 2, 2006 at 5:57 PM Post #6 of 65
lol I posted some comments on another forum we are both on a long time ago. :p
 
Aug 2, 2006 at 6:04 PM Post #7 of 65
Thanks!

Wow - I didn't expect such detailed reviews without any of the useless one liner "GS-1000 sucks", "get PS-1, you won't regret it", etc comments.

Really appreciate the impressions. I have a better understanding now.

I think I will pass on the PS-1 over on Audiogon (anyone interested $1K used). Sounds like the best Grado for some, but for my preference it sounds like the GS-1000 hits the mark overall.

One day I'd still like to hear the PS-1, but I can't own 2 $1K phones at the moment. I have a stereo system to support as well.

Audiofiler you may have even upsold me on the BD cable. Is yours single ended? Can I send the GS-1000 in for an upgrade or do I have to buy with cable?

Thanks again everyone - great in depth impressions!
biggrin.gif
 
Aug 2, 2006 at 6:07 PM Post #8 of 65
indeed, thanks for those lengthy comments, Audiofiler and Biggie. I want them both.

I'm dying to hear both, actually. the 2 times I tried the PS-1, i was NOT impressed, but i am certain a good deal of that had to do with the system feeding them.
 
Aug 2, 2006 at 6:26 PM Post #9 of 65
Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321
Audiofiler you may have even upsold me on the BD cable. Is yours single ended? Can I send the GS-1000 in for an upgrade or do I have to buy with cable?


It's possible to get the BD cable balanced along with an XLR to single ended adapter cable. I believe Moon-Audio charges $50 labour + cost of cables + shipping.
 
Aug 2, 2006 at 6:31 PM Post #10 of 65
I might as well explain more about why I don't like the gs1k's presentation. To me with big bowls suck out the midrange magic the rs-1's are famous for. Whats left is an exagerated high end with too many peaks and valleys. When I put the big bowls on my ps-1's I heard similar exagerated highs. The soundstage is pulled back, but the headstage is still the same size. The only nice thing about this presentation is it doesn't need crossfeed like a sennheiser hd6xx or an akg701. Obviously my ears do not enjoy sitting in the crowd, its lonely out their and gets boring. To me this is a grado for people who don't like grados and not a can that is geared to my tastes.

To me the best grado would be a lighter version of the ps-1 with less bass quantity so that it sounds good on a larger variety of systems.

I'm also wondering how someone can consider the gs1k's to sound the most 'liquid' of the three cans. I'm not sure how others interpret this over used term, but to me it means a combination of smoothness and linearity through out the audible frequency range. Thats something the ps-1 excels at.

Biggie.
 
Aug 2, 2006 at 6:32 PM Post #11 of 65
Quote:

Contrary to popular belief, the stock grado cables are nothing special and only a little bit better then the stock sennheiser 600 cable (my stock ps-1 cable was converted to a sennheiser replacement cable heh).


Not to hijack here but I've been considering having my PS-1 recabled by Sean at Zu... any suggestions for best synergy?
 
Aug 2, 2006 at 6:41 PM Post #12 of 65
Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeride74
Not to hijack here but I've been considering having my PS-1 recabled by Sean at Zu... any suggestions for best synergy?


I would want to get a cable with similar tone as the stock cable (ie. most copper cables), smooth highend and tight bass. One way to find this out is to try out different interconnects and then have a headphone cable made from them. With the zu cables you could get an idea by borrowing some senn 6xx and compare the sennheiser zu cable to the stock senn cord.

Biggie.
 
Aug 2, 2006 at 6:42 PM Post #13 of 65
Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321
Thanks!

Wow - I didn't expect such detailed reviews without any of the useless one liner "GS-1000 sucks", "get PS-1, you won't regret it", etc comments.

Really appreciate the impressions. I have a better understanding now.

I think I will pass on the PS-1 over on Audiogon (anyone interested $1K used). Sounds like the best Grado for some, but for my preference it sounds like the GS-1000 hits the mark overall.

One day I'd still like to hear the PS-1, but I can't own 2 $1K phones at the moment. I have a stereo system to support as well.

Audiofiler you may have even upsold me on the BD cable. Is yours single ended? Can I send the GS-1000 in for an upgrade or do I have to buy with cable?

Thanks again everyone - great in depth impressions!
biggrin.gif




You can defnitely send yours in to be upgraded. Just give drew at moon-audio an e-mail, send him payment for the cable, then send yout gs-1k's back to Grado Labs, and they do the cable for you to maintain warranty.

Please let me know when you do this, i've been dying to hear this mod!

And what do you mean you can' thave two 1k$ headphones...

you have the k1000 also!
 
Aug 2, 2006 at 7:00 PM Post #14 of 65
Quote:

Originally Posted by yellafella321
You can defnitely send yours in to be upgraded. Just give drew at moon-audio an e-mail, send him payment for the cable, then send yout gs-1k's back to Grado Labs, and they do the cable for you to maintain warranty.

Please let me know when you do this, i've been dying to hear this mod!

And what do you mean you can' thave two 1k$ headphones...

you have the k1000 also!



Yeah, I think I'm finally going to do it.

Um, er, I meant 3 $1K headphones. + RS-1 ($700) I'm nuts.

Anyway, I'm thinking of going down to 3 headphones. I just don't have the time to listen to them all - early thoughts are K1000, GS-1000, and Senn 600 (Senn 600 ? crazy huh? but it give a different presentation).

The K701 : is too much like the GS-1000 but much less musical and slower (great phone though don't get me wrong).

The RS-1 : this would be tough to sell but the soundstage is hard to get used to after hearing the GS-1000, so I don't go to it much anymore even though it has better sound quality then the GS-1000 in certain respects.

Well the E3C will stay for air travel out of mp3 player. Sounds good enough for that. And the 225 I may keep for use since all my other phones are too ugly to go outside with
eek.gif


We'll see. But I will let you know when I get them recabled so you can hear them.
cool.gif


btw, thanks for the recabling info.
 
Aug 2, 2006 at 7:40 PM Post #15 of 65
The PS-1's are great, but you need to build your system around them in order to have them shine. The older RS-1's [with the darker wood] come pretty damn close in terms of resolution and are a lot easier on the wallet [both the cost of the headphones and the cost to make them happy]. I also think that they have a general sound signature that I prefer. I need to get some more time with them when compared directly to some HP1000's to be sure, but I think that all things considered, these are probably my favourite Grado. The newer RS-1's are nice too, but seem to be missing something over their older siblings.
 

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