Project Sunrise/PS2 Tube Rolling Thread (and maybe even Project Horizon and Project Ember)
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chinook9

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Thanks for the excellent comparisons chinook9, that was a lot of tubes! I know it can be quite tiring listening critically rather than to simply relax! Sharing your experience is much appreciated though.
 
At one point you said that the CBS Hytron 5814 you had seemed promising. Can you say how it compares to the tubes you just heard?

I'll listen to the CBS Hytron 5814 to refresh my memory and confirm what I'm thinking and then I'll give you my thoughts.
 
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chinook9

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Quote:
Thanks for the excellent comparisons chinook9, that was a lot of tubes! I know it can be quite tiring listening critically rather than to simply relax! Sharing your experience is much appreciated though.
 
At one point you said that the CBS Hytron 5814 you had seemed promising. Can you say how it compares to the tubes you just heard?
 
[size=11.0000pt]After listening to the [/size][size=11.0000pt]CBS Hytron[/size][size=11.0000pt] 5814A for a little while, I have to say that it is not really like any of the tubes I reviewed in the [/size]
[size=11.0000pt]previous post. [/size]
 
[size=11.0000pt] I read about people who don't like bright or dark sounding tubes and I think this is the tube for them.  Its so very [/size]
[size=11.0000pt]listenable.  Its very good in every area but is the best in none. Its[/size][size=11.0000pt] not the most detailed because it doesn’t have th[/size][size=11.0000pt]at touch of [/size]
[size=11.0000pt]sibilance that serves to [/size][size=11.0000pt]emphasize[/size][size=11.0000pt]s[/size][size=11.0000pt] the details[/size][size=11.0000pt].  I[/size][size=11.0000pt]t is smooth[/size][size=11.0000pt] and musical and is good throughout the frequency range[/size][size=11.0000pt].[/size]  
[size=11.0000pt]Soundstage is [/size][size=11.0000pt]very good and [/size][size=11.0000pt]better than most.  I thought this tube was a little laid back for a while[/size][size=11.0000pt], and it is a smidge laid back,[/size][size=11.0000pt] [/size]
[size=11.0000pt]but [/size][size=11.0000pt]I [/size][size=11.0000pt]found that I had the volume a little t[/size][size=11.0000pt]o[/size][size=11.0000pt]o low.  [/size][size=11.0000pt]Of the tubes I reviewed above, [/size][size=11.0000pt]I would rank it[/size][size=11.0000pt] up there with the [/size][size=10.5000pt]Valvo E88CC 75L [/size]
[size=10.5000pt]Delta PO Red Label[/size][size=10.5000pt] but I'm sure many would rate it higher than that.  [/size][size=11.0000pt]I would put this in the top [/size][size=11.0000pt]2 or 3 tubes that I own and I keep [/size]
[size=11.0000pt]coming back to it constantly.  I believe that my Sylvania is the best and the CBS Hytron is in the next 2 or 3 with the [/size]
[size=11.0000pt]Telefunken 12AU7 (detailed) and possibly the Amperex E81CC PQ (musical). [/size]

 
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adani

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Can anyone please suggest a tube for Horizon with rolled-off highs, the more rolled-off the better. I know this sounds a bit odd 
 I have already tried reportedly "dark and warm-ish" headphones (Sennheiser HD600 and now own Mad Dogs) and still feel like I want something even more smooth and laid-back for all day long listening @ work.
 
P.S. So far I have tried stock tube and 6N1P
 
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cheaphifi

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Quote:
Can anyone please suggest a tube for Horizon with rolled-off highs, the more rolled-off the better. I know this sounds a bit odd 
 I have already tried reportedly "dark and warm-ish" headphones (Sennheiser HD600 and now own Mad Dogs) and still feel like I want something even more smooth and laid-back for all day long listening @ work.
 
P.S. So far I have tried stock tube and 6N1P
try to change ohm settings on the Horizon, it affects the highs too
 
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stupidmop

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Quote:
Can anyone please suggest a tube for Horizon with rolled-off highs, the more rolled-off the better. I know this sounds a bit odd 
 I have already tried reportedly "dark and warm-ish" headphones (Sennheiser HD600 and now own Mad Dogs) and still feel like I want something even more smooth and laid-back for all day long listening @ work.
 
P.S. So far I have tried stock tube and 6N1P
I prob sound like a broken record but rca blackplate 12AU7. You can get em cheap from organ pulls. Labeled hammond, CONN, etc. Very laid back. Maybe a ken rad 5814 but the early ones, 1948 or older. I wouldn't say the highs are rolled off on these but they sound laid back to these ears, compared to say RFT ecc82 and Philips JAN which I consider treble heavy. My absolute fave tube at moment is siemens e88cc gold pins. Sound is soooo subjective so this is hard :) I assume you tried EQing. Have you by-passed the input caps?
 
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adani

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Thanks, stupidmop.
 
I have tried bypassing caps and honestly can't see any significant difference. I am a little biased towards not using EQ when possible, and while I have tried playing with it, it did not provide the needed result. What I am looking for is not a laid back, but with extremely smooth sound, forward enough but with rolled-off 8-10k and above => so that listening to poorly mastered modern music will not make my ears bleed 

 
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stupidmop

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Totally agree on the EQ thing. I only do it through my magni/modi. Def try a ken rad, but they r a bit pricey. Amperex 6922 white label is light and airy but with a good low end. I also like my bugle boy ecc88, has excellent impact, very dynamic and no fatigue. Amperex orange globe 6dj8 A frame Dimple disc is smooth. But ken rads are smooth as a babys bum. I've got a bunch of rca blackplates. They are used and don't test the best but they're not noisy and I'd send ya one if you're in the states. If you get on the bay you should ask Nikolay at Tubemaze. Extemely knowledgeable dude when it comes to tubes. He has VAST info on 12au7 and 6dj8 types.
Best,
Mop
 
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bluemonkeyflyer

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I can vouch for egolikeness on eBay. She's an honest seller with great tubes, feedback, and fast shipping. Tubemaze, miroyu, and autolocate, as well.
 
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adani

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Thanks for your recommendations, guys!  I'm not in the states and was hoping to get some tubes from our local vendors. Just needed to know what should I be looking for.
 
stupidmop, which type of tube do you refer as "ken rad"? There are a bunch @ ebay.
 
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bluemonkeyflyer

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Quote:
Thanks for your recommendations, guys!  I'm not in the states and was hoping to get some tubes from our local vendors. Just needed to know what should I be looking for.
 
stupidmop, which type of tube do you refer as "ken rad"? There are a bunch @ ebay.
FWIW, egolikeness is in Germany and miroyu is in Serbia.
 
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stupidmop

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Mine are JKR 5814 graphite plates from 1948. After 1948 ken rads are just GEs. Which wouldn't suit what you're after IMO. Tubeking has great tubes also. I didn't find any on ebay at moment. They're tough to find. 2nd pic is other side of tube. Sorry about the format and crappy pics. It's muh first time
 
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chinook9

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Not sure if I can be of any help, but I am in US and will be in France and Italy early next month.  I'd be glad to bring a tube over and deliver or mail it.
 
For those of you who know more than I do, wouldn't an RCA ClearTop 12AU7 work for him....or possible an Amperex 6DJ8 BugleBoy.  I have both of these and they are cheap.
 
 
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adani

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Thanks guys for your responses and help. What a lovely community we, Sunrise/Horizon owners, are :)
 
Another reason why I want to buy locally is because postal service in my country is... well, leaves a lot to desire, to say the least.
 
Btw, while Ken Rad might be hard to find here, there are plenty on 12AU7, 12AT7 and 12AX7 to choose from... not sure if I can easily find RCA cleartop, but other brands of the same type more or less share the signature, right?
 
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stupidmop

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IDK bout cleartop. I use mine to tone down bass a bit but i dunno tubes make my head spin lol. Buying locally is real cool. I try to hit hamfests every chance I get, which isn't as often as I like. Maybe they have those where you are. Best advice is to buy as many as you can and listen and decide for yourself, that's half the fun. Take a look at cbs hytron also. @chinook9 gave excellent description a few posts ago. 
And not all rca's sound the same, E88cc rca are all rebrands/oem. Greyplates sound waaay diff then blackplates. Greys are airy with nice mids and highs and complementary bass. Blackplates are aggressive on the low end, great impact and extension, with luscious mids and complimentary highs. Cleartops are a whole other animal. I like them all but they are VERY diff, just my opinion.
I've read numerous books and on internet about tubes and circuits till my head almost exploded. The sunrise/horizon uses the IRL 510 mosfet, which extends into the 30,000khz freq range. My bravo came stock with IRF630 mosfets which roll off at 10,000khz i think. Maybe you'd fare better with a swap of mosfets but I'd hate to mess with perfection :)\
12at7 draws less current than 12au7. 12ax7 draws most i think, plenty of info on net but they don't sound same IMO
 
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