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Project Sunrise/PS2 Tube Rolling Thread (and maybe even Project Horizon and Project Ember)

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  1. ukemaxxer
    Built my Horizon just after Christmas, fantastic kit, so just about a month old now, but with a good few hundred hours on it.
    Ran with the stock 6N23P for a while, but now have a vintage 1965 6N23P in and the difference in bass is clear and much deeper with the vintage tube. Don't know what the date of the stock one is.
    I also have a few others, not tried yet, do any of you have experience with these.
    I have a Sylvania 12AU7A, and an Electro Harmonix 12AU7/ECC82.
    The headphones I am using are Sennheiser HD650
  2. Micaiah
    Hi ukemaxxer. I was wondering if anyone else out there had a Horizon! It really is a very good amp isn't it? I'm thinking about building a Sunrise II, but even if I don't, I'll be more than happy if the Horizon is the last amp I get. Just curious, what is the serial number of your Horizon? Mine is K0002.
    I put the 6N23P that came with the Horizon kit back in last night for the first time since building the amp months ago. I've been running it in with the pink noise generator that I got from chinook9 because I didn't really put any time on the tube originally. In listening to it earlier this evening I have to say there's something about it that I really like. Even though it's not as detailed or airy as my Tungsol or TJ Fullmusic, the bass sounds stronger (though not as quick or punchy) and there is a warmer, 'syrupy' sound that is very nice, taming electronic music a little (Trance and Dubstep). I'd still say the other tubes are better to my ears with acoustic/vocal and classical where a more clear airy sound is desired.
    I'd emailed Cryoset over the weekend telling them I liked the Tung Sol I got from them and asked what other tubes they would recommend (I added the list of tubes compatible with the amp to the email). 
    Here is the response I got back from Ron:
    I like and use the 6N23P-EV in both my preamp and CD player.
    For a 12v tube I recommend the Gold Lion ECC83/12AX7. If lower gain is wanted, then the Gold Lion ECC82/12AU7 would be my choice.
    So I've ordered a 6N23P-EV and am looking forward to comparing it with the 6N23P I have. From what I've read in tube forums, most who have heard them agree that Cryogenic treatment seems to improve the sound of tubes plus they last longer. So having two 6N23P tubes to compare, one being 'cryo'ed', should be interesting. The info on the 6N23P-EV says they sound especially good 'after 100-200 hours'. Wish I had a device to burn in multiple tubes at a time.
  3. ukemaxxer
    Hi Micaiah,
    Mine is s/n K0025. I have only just received the 1965 valve, so intend to run it for a while before trying any more.
    I did download the noise generator from Chinook9, maybe I should leave it playing while I'm out. I only have about 40 hours on this new tube, but it has plenty of bass, which is what I like! Sounds glorious with the HD650, settings are caps bypassed and all set for low resistance.
  4. geetarman49
    i'm not a fan of either eh or jj tubes of current vintage ... they impart a rather 'rounded' quality to the tonality, yielding what some have called a 'rubbery' tone or accent, but ... ymmv.    I think the stock 6n23p that Jeremy supplies is from the mid '80s.
    if you are sticking with 12au7, then the rca cleartop is a very good one to try (& also relatively inexpensive as far as nos tubes go); otherwise try some nos 5751 (Sylvania blk plate gold, Raytheon windmill getter, ge 5751 wa - these are triple getters except for the Raytheon which is double only).
  5. Modular
    Hey all, I have a question. When rolling tubes, should the bias always be set for 12volts regardless of the tube voltage?
  6. geetarman49
    I have a fair no. of cryo'd tubes including some '60s 6n23p.  I doubt if I could tell the difference between cryo'd & non-cryo'd if it were conducted in dbl-blind testing.  as for the claim that they last longer ... again, in the sunrise & horizon, these tubes are not being stressed at all & should last for many, many years regardless of boutique treatment.
  7. AlbinoBlacMan
    Not positive but I believe the answer is a big no. Voltage should be adjusted for the tube and bias has to be adjusted each time you put a new tube in which makes comparisons somewhat difficult (or at least time consuming).
  8. bluemonkeyflyer
    My understanding from discussions with Jeremy is that the voltage jumper must be set for either 6 volts or 12 volts, depending on the tube you're using, then set the bias to 13.5 volts for each channel.  I'll leave it to The Master to confirm or refute.
  9. Modular
    Interesting, the Sunrise version 2 manual says to set the bias to 12volts in the setup section. I'll email Jeremy for some clarification.

    I wonder if we're getting versions/Horizon/Sunrise mixed up.
  10. oplacheno
    Hello dear members! I'm from Russia and not very good in english, but i'll try to explain my reflections..
    I have Project Horizon v 2.0 and use it with my Beyerdynamic DT 880 600Ohm.
    I also have tubes: Raytheon 12AU7A(35$), Brimar ECC88(18$), Noname 12AX7(15$) (with two hieroglyphs and star at the center) and stock 6N23P (from my motherland :)).
    Af course i've tried them all for 3-4 times each. My conclusion:
    1st place 6N23P - detailed, moderately bright, dynamic range is wide enough to listen for hours, and one special thing of this tube - it well copes with the drum, each drum hit is very lush and thoroughbred i like it...
    2nd place Noname 12AX7 - include it the first time I pulled it after 10 minutes of listening, because I found it too "flashy" and "oversibilanted" :), but after week i tried it again listeing Fleetwood Mac - Tusk SACD - and i was very expressed very punchy bass, bright mids and a little bit screamy highs, i like this tube i decided to heat it up for 30-40 hours for best result...
    3rd place - Raytheon 12AU7A - very calm and melancholic, and if not for DT880, I would prefer to throw it in the trash, and this tube sounds warm and detailed very suitable for Hi-res vocal.
    So Brimar ECC88 - did not live up to my expectations all, meager sounding mids greatly understated, no bass, no highs...
    For today i'm waiting for delightful Siemens Halske NOS ECC801S 1961 from Tubemuseum Ebay, i've ordered it with 30% discount :))) I hope it will be good investment))
  11. ukemaxxer
    As far as I am aware, Sunrise bias should be 12V, although 13.5V seems to be the consensus on various forums.
    Horizon should be set at 22V. This is direct from Frans, the designer.
  12. ukemaxxer
    Thanks for the advice, gives me a few more to search for now.
  13. chinook9
    Guys, I happened to have my Sunrise II manual handy.  Regarding setting voltage, under Manual Bias Setting Using a Multi Meter it states "Dial in each side to around 12VDC."   On the next to the last page (no heading) it states "The 6V/12V jumper allows you to use both 6 and 12 volt tubes.  Before powering on your amplifier, you must make sure what voltage your tube runs at and set it accordingly via the jumper.  Attach the jumper tab to the center pin and to the side pin closest to the voltage you desire (12V or the 6V side)  Use the 6V setting for the provided 6N23P tube....To note: If in doubt, set the amp to 12V.  If only one channel works, change it to the 6V setting.  You cannot destroy a tube if set to the wrong voltage." 
    Hope this helps.
  14. chinook9
    Thank you for the feedback on the Brimar.  I have almost purchased one of these, but now I won't.  I will receive a couple of used Mullards soon.  Hope they are better than the Brimar.
    The Siemens Halske also get very good reviews.  Hope you have more luck with it.  I expect it will be very good.
    I have number of tubes I have received recently and I like most of them.  I have an Amperex 6201 E81CC gold pin that is presently my favorite and a Telefunken made Mazda that I'm still evaluating. 
  15. AlbinoBlacMan
    Just checked my PS v1 manual and it suggests setting bias to 13.5v, so that's where the confusion comes in. I assume that just means they changed their recommendations between v1 and v2 (although I think the components are the same for both builds [please note that is wrong, the components are not the same for each build]).
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