Pricing, tiers, TOTL, etc. - What is the *material* difference?

May 10, 2025 at 4:37 AM Post #121 of 219
Proper equalization is the most effective and direct way of improving the sound of any home audio rig.

Someone should check the IP numbers of these two. If they aren’t the same, I bet one is home and the other is work.
 
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May 10, 2025 at 8:22 AM Post #122 of 219
One thing never seems to change, those against EQ don't know much about EQ, or people.

Digital EQ. I have zero issues EQing in analog domain which is how I EQ my studio monitors anyway. No issues digital EQing my AirPods either since they are not transparent enough to hear the loss of resolution form the process

Digital EQ strips resolution slightly to my perception especially on resolving system

One can say digital EQ is performed at 64 bit float so it’s transparent but my perception still detects loss in fidelity
 
May 10, 2025 at 8:52 AM Post #123 of 219
Digital EQ strips resolution slightly to my perception especially on resolving system
And of course you did a sighted comparison of analog and digital EQ so your senses would work optimal?
1746881047227.jpeg
 
May 10, 2025 at 9:00 AM Post #124 of 219
And of course you did a sighted comparison of analog and digital EQ so your senses would work optimal?
1746881047227.jpeg
:face_palm::face_palm::face_palm:

Repeatedly done so many times and all results are the same. YMMV
 
May 10, 2025 at 9:47 AM Post #126 of 219
Repeatedly done so many times and all results are the same.
I didn't pick it up at first reading, but I now guess you are also one of those who think repeatability of results is somehow excluding the possibility of perceptual errors? Well, it's absolutely not.
 
May 10, 2025 at 1:03 PM Post #127 of 219
Digital EQ. I have zero issues EQing in analog domain which is how I EQ my studio monitors anyway. No issues digital EQing my AirPods either since they are not transparent enough to hear the loss of resolution form the process

Digital EQ strips resolution slightly to my perception especially on resolving system

One can say digital EQ is performed at 64 bit float so it’s transparent but my perception still detects loss in fidelity
I don’t think there is a technical difference between analog and digital EQ, as both rely on phase shifting of different frequencies to accomplish the end goal. I note that if you use digital EQ then you can also you use linear phase EQ but my understanding is that linear phase EQ is only possible via DSP and using the full wave file and cannot be done as part of a digital playback system (I could be wrong).

But in any case if you use analog EQ, you have phase errors in your signal - that’s the way they are designed to operate.

As far as your system goes you simply prefer your analog EQ for all kinds of reason including potential ground plane or other sources of noise in your digital EQ system.
 
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May 10, 2025 at 1:50 PM Post #128 of 219
I don’t think there is a technical difference between analog and digital EQ, as both rely on phase shifting of different frequencies to accomplish the end goal. I note that if you use digital EQ then you can also you use linear phase EQ but my understanding is that linear phase EQ is only possible via DSP and using the full wave file and cannot be done as part of a digital playback system (I could be wrong).

But in any case if you use analog EQ, you have phase errors in your signal - that’s the way they are designed to operate.

As far as your system goes you simply prefer your analog EQ for all kinds of reason including potential ground plane or other sources of noise in your digital EQ system.

You’re right.

Over the past years of upgrading to a more resolving system, I do find that digital EQ from a source i.e. outside of a DAC that have extremely well implemented built in digital EQ preamp is less transparent in terms of keeping the aspects of mainly dynamics especially microdynamics. I do not hear this dynamic reduction with a decent analog EQ. That’s mainly my issues with digital EQ which is to be more specific, source driven rather than a feature of a DAC with built-in digital EQ preamp

In other news, the new Schiit Byggy will have a built-in digital pEQ on its DSP board and would be interesting to find out at the end of this year!
 
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May 10, 2025 at 6:02 PM Post #129 of 219
You’re right.

Over the past years of upgrading to a more resolving system, I do find that digital EQ from a source i.e. outside of a DAC that have extremely well implemented built in digital EQ preamp is less transparent in terms of keeping the aspects of mainly dynamics especially microdynamics. I do not hear this dynamic reduction with a decent analog EQ. That’s mainly my issues with digital EQ which is to be more specific, source driven rather than a feature of a DAC with built-in digital EQ preamp

In other news, the new Schiit Byggy will have a built-in digital pEQ on its DSP board and would be interesting to find out at the end of this year!



Totally agree. EQ is a just one of those tools that you're better off not using

For me Upscaling *always* adds this unnatural, plasticky texture—like a layer of synthetic air that just rings and smears transients. It feels like it sucks the life out of the low-end punch and microdetails.

EQ is kind of the same. Every boost/cut seems to plaster the track with a veil of noise, microdynamics suffer . It’s not subtle—to my ears it sounds like MP3s, like a compression of some sort.

Raw files > processed ones.
24 bit files, especially 24/96 and up, including DSDs sound the most natural and distortion free. Closer to the the real thing itself.
 
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May 10, 2025 at 7:05 PM Post #130 of 219
my understanding is that linear phase EQ is only possible via DSP and using the full wave file and cannot be done as part of a digital playback system (I could be wrong).
"Real-time" linear phase EQ is not only possible, it's common. The number of samples that are loaded into the EQ is determined by its buffer size, ranging from less than 100 to a couple thousand. The player streams the samples into the buffer and once it's full, the EQ processes it and sends the processed samples (towards) to the output.

Linear phase EQ is also possible with an analog EQ but that actually requires the full track beforehand and it's really more of a weird party trick than a useful technique.

in any case if you use analog EQ, you have phase errors in your signal - that’s the way they are designed to operate.
Any transducer with a particular frequency response will have a unique phase response associated with it. They are linked together and one can not be changed without the other one. As long as the EQ corrects the frequency response of the transducer (as opposed to correcting other parts of the system, or trying to correct for measurement artifacts or just EQing to preference) the phase response will also get corrected with the typical EQs.
 
May 11, 2025 at 12:23 AM Post #131 of 219
:face_palm::face_palm::face_palm:

Repeatedly done so many times and all results are the same. YMMV
Why do you use a tool like a controlled listening test when you don’t believe in controlled listening tests? Are you sure you’re telling the truth?
 
May 11, 2025 at 1:49 AM Post #132 of 219
I do find it amusing that your entry level laptop advertises enough computing horsepower to run that OS's base AI LLM, 4K video, and basic games. Digital processing with video or 3D gaming is more involved than stereo music....yet somehow digital processing with stereo music is still unachievable according to audiophiles. Well if you find a DSP that you like, it can seem amazing. It's like when I was in high school and had a Sony Discman that had a really cool DSP: what Sony coined then as "surround"....a form of emphasizing frequencies in the instrument areas (to make a studio CD sound like it was a live performance). It was a fad: it would be really cool if that kind of DSP made a come back.
 
May 11, 2025 at 2:57 AM Post #133 of 219
Totally agree. EQ is a just one of those tools that you're better off not using

For me Upscaling *always* adds this unnatural, plasticky texture—like a layer of synthetic air that just rings and smears transients. It feels like it sucks the life out of the low-end punch and microdetails.

EQ is kind of the same. Every boost/cut seems to plaster the track with a veil of noise, microdynamics suffer . It’s not subtle—to my ears it sounds like MP3s, like a compression of some sort.

Raw files > processed ones.
24 bit files, especially 24/96 and up, including DSDs sound the most natural and distortion free. Closer to the the real thing itself.
Sure, the worst thing about EQ is that I never know what to do with the skis once I'm done.
What are you talking about? You managed to describe the impact of EQ by using only words that have nothing to do with EQ.
Want to guess how many EQ filters were applied on those "most natural and distortion free" hires tracks? Can't you sometimes try to talk about a subject you understand? This is nuts.
 
May 11, 2025 at 3:53 AM Post #134 of 219
Not worth it...but..
If you have a Sound Science approved system....128kb mp3s on a 100 dollar DAC? nothing you do below will matter( or anything else for that matter). EQ away into infinity.
However, if you have a High end Optimized system. EQ is like painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa.


Here's what Google AI has to say on the subject.

To address the question of whether EQ causes distortion, here's a structured summary of the supporting evidence and mechanisms:

### 1. **Gain-Related Clipping**
- **Evidence**: Boosting frequencies with EQ increases the amplitude of specific frequency bands. If the cumulative signal exceeds the system's maximum headroom (e.g., 0 dBFS in digital systems), **clipping distortion** occurs.
- **Source**: Audio engineering textbooks like *"Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio"* by Mike Senior emphasize gain staging to prevent clipping when using EQ boosts.

### 2. **Analog EQ Harmonic Distortion**
- **Evidence**: Analog hardware EQs (e.g., tube or transistor-based units) inherently add **harmonic distortion** due to nonlinear components. This is often marketed as "warmth" (e.g., Pultec EQs).
- **Source**: Technical specifications for analog gear often list THD (Total Harmonic Distortion), such as the Universal Audio 1073 EQ (THD: ~0.1% at +24 dBu).

### 3. **Phase Distortion**
- **Evidence**: Analog and minimum-phase digital EQs introduce **phase shifts** around adjusted frequencies, altering transient response. This can cause "smearing" (a form of phase distortion).
- **Exception**: Linear-phase EQs minimize phase shifts but may introduce pre-ringing artifacts.
- **Source**: AES (Audio Engineering Society) papers on linear vs. minimum-phase EQ trade-offs.

### 4. **Inter-Sample Peaks (Digital Systems)**
- **Evidence**: Boosting frequencies in digital audio can create inter-sample peaks during reconstruction, exceeding 0 dBFS and causing distortion in DACs.
- **Source**: ITU-R BS.1770 guidelines on headroom management for broadcast audio.

### 5. **Plugin Emulations**
- **Evidence**: Analog-modeled EQ plugins (e.g., Waves SSL E-Channel) intentionally emulate harmonic distortion from original hardware, as noted in their user manuals.

### 6. **Best Practices in Mixing**
- **Evidence**: Engineers often advise "cutting rather than boosting" to avoid distortion. For example, reducing low frequencies to prevent muddiness instead of boosting highs excessively.
- **Source**: Industry professionals like Bob Katz (*Mastering Audio*) and educational platforms (e.g., Sound on Sound articles).

### Conclusion
EQ can cause distortion through **clipping**, **harmonic coloration** (in analog systems), **phase shifts**, or **inter-sample peaks**. The risk depends on EQ type (analog vs. digital), gain staging, and usage practices. Proper headroom management and mindful boosting/cutting mitigate these effects.

### **What Causes Phase Distortion in EQ?**
1. **How EQ Works**:
- Equalizers (analog or digital) use filters (e.g., high-pass, low-pass, bell curves) to boost or cut frequencies.
- These filters inherently alter the **phase relationship** between frequencies in the signal. This is not a flaw but a mathematical property of how filters work.

2. **Phase Shift ≠ Phase Distortion**:
- **Phase shift** occurs naturally in all minimum-phase EQs (most analog and digital EQs). It’s a linear change in timing for specific frequencies.
- **Phase distortion** becomes audible when these shifts:
- Smear transients (e.g., blurring the attack of a snare drum).
- Create comb filtering when mixing phase-shifted signals with unprocessed ones (e.g., layering two guitar tracks with different EQ settings).

---

### **Evidence from Reputable Sources (Paraphrased)**
1. **AES (Audio Engineering Society) Research**:
- Studies confirm that **minimum-phase EQs** (common in analog and most digital EQs) introduce frequency-dependent phase shifts. These shifts are more pronounced with **steeper filter slopes** (e.g., 24 dB/octave high-pass filters).
- **Linear-phase EQs** eliminate phase shifts but introduce **pre-ringing** (a “ghost” sound before transients), which can be more audible than phase distortion in some cases.

2. **Bob Katz (Mastering Engineer, Author of *Mastering Audio*)**:
- Warns that excessive EQ boosts/cuts on multiple tracks can accumulate phase issues, degrading the stereo image and transient clarity. Recommends using EQ sparingly and checking phase coherence.

3. **Dan Worrall (Audio Expert, YouTube Educator)**:
- Demonstrates that boosting a frequency with EQ shifts the phase of nearby frequencies, which can cancel out harmonics when mixed with other tracks. This is especially problematic in mastering or parallel processing.

---

### **How to Test Phase Distortion Yourself**
1. **Experiment 1: Transient Smearing**:
- **Step 1**: Load a drum loop with sharp transients (e.g., a snare hit) into your DAW.
- **Step 2**: Apply a steep boost (e.g., +10 dB at 2 kHz) using a minimum-phase EQ (e.g., FabFilter Pro-Q 3).
- **Result**: The transient will sound “softer” or less defined due to phase shifts around the boosted frequency.

2. **Experiment 2: Phase Cancellation**:
- **Step 1**: Duplicate a vocal track. Apply a high-pass filter (e.g., 100 Hz) to one copy.
- **Step 2**: Invert the phase of the filtered track and play both together.
- **Result**: You’ll hear cancellation of frequencies around the filter’s cutoff point, proving phase shifts occurred.

---

### **When Does Phase Distortion Matter?**
- **Critical Situations**:
- Mixing drum overheads or multi-miked instruments (e.g., phase shifts between mics ruin coherence).
- Mastering with aggressive EQ adjustments.
- Parallel processing (EQ’d and dry signals combined).

- **Solutions**:
- Use **linear-phase EQ** for surgical adjustments on full mixes (but avoid it on transients due to pre-ringing).
- Follow the “**cut, don’t boost**” rule to minimize phase shifts.
- Check phase alignment with tools like **correlation meters** or by inverting polarity.

---

### **Key Takeaway**
Phase distortion is a **trade-off** in EQ use. While unavoidable in minimum-phase designs, it’s only problematic if it harms the sound. Trust your ears: if a track loses clarity after EQ, phase shifts might be the culprit.

Phase distortion caused by EQ, particularly minimum-phase EQ, arises from the way these EQs alter the amplitude of different frequencies. To change the level of specific frequencies, these EQs inherently introduce shifts in the phase (the timing of the waveform) of those frequencies and their surrounding frequencies.




Here's a breakdown of why this happens:

  • Minimum-Phase Filters: Most common analog and digital EQs utilize minimum-phase filters. The fundamental principle behind how these filters work involves creating phase shifts to achieve the desired frequency response changes (boosts or cuts).

  • Uneven Delay: When an EQ boosts or cuts certain frequencies, the processing involved causes those frequencies to be delayed by a different amount compared to other frequencies. This difference in delay across the frequency spectrum is what we perceive as phase distortion.
  • Time Smearing:These phase shifts can alter the time relationships between different frequency components of a sound. This can lead to a smearing of transients (the sharp attack of sounds), affecting the clarity and punchiness of the audio. It can also impact the stereo image, making it less focused.
Analogy: Imagine a group of runners starting a race at the same time. If some runners are forced to take a slightly longer route or are briefly slowed down, they will arrive at the finish line at slightly different times than the others, even though they all started together. Similarly, EQing different frequencies can cause them to arrive at your ears at slightly different times, altering the original temporal relationships within the sound.

Linear-Phase EQ as a Contrast:

It's important to note that there's another type of EQ called linear-phase EQ. These EQs are designed to avoid phase distortion across the frequency spectrum. They achieve this by applying an equal amount of delay to all frequencies. While linear-phase EQs preserve the phase relationships, they introduce an overall latency (delay) to the audio signal and can sometimes create a pre-ringing artifact (a faint echo before the main sound).




In summary, phase distortion is an inherent characteristic of minimum-phase EQs, resulting from the differential delay applied to various frequencies to achieve equalization. While often subtle, it can become more noticeable with drastic EQ changes or when dealing with signals that have critical phase relationships, such as multi-mic recordings.







Anyways.
 
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May 11, 2025 at 4:46 AM Post #135 of 219
@Diet Kokaine
I mean this in the most sincere way possible.

Can’t you just admit that you don’t completely understand what you’re talking about? You’re talking to people with a lot more knowledge and experience than you. Maybe you can listen to them and learn something instead of clinging to your false beliefs.

If you just admit that your assertions are wrong and actually be willing to learn something, we’d greatly appreciate that and would be happy to boost your knowledge.

One of my favourite tracks has a quote I really like:

The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance”.

Maybe take some inspiration from that?

This is in no way shape or form a personal attack. We want to help you gain more knowledge, but we can’t do that if you keep posting misinformation in a science forum.
 
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