[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif in engineering circles, there is no mention of testing for 'sound stage'

Yep, because most engineers aren't audiophiles, and wouldn't know what a soundstage even is. This is a pointless argument to continue. You're telling me that numbers are everything, good numbers = good sound, and that if there is to be a difference in sound, it must show up in some measurement that an engineer will understand.

I'm telling you that your wrong. A speaker designed purely on anechoic chamber measurements is just as likely to sound bad as it is good. In order to guarantee a good sounding speaker, you MUST actually listen to it. You have to put the machines down for a minute and actually listen to the sound it produces. Same goes for everything else in audio.

I'm done with this crap.

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif isn't krell supposed to be a high end brand? you telling me that high end brands can't design proper power supplies? seriously?

You're telling me I need $400 tires to get the best performance out of my Ferrari? What's wrong with them, can't they design a proper car? All tires are the same! A $50 Walmart tire should be just as good, after all, the car will still drive down the street with them.

 

[linuxworks]

no, I'm saying that to buy a ferrari and assume that the tires that COME WITH IT are insufficient, that is the fallacy I'm referring to.

pretty insulting (if I was krell) to be told that I could not design a PSU properly.

even more laughable when krell has engineers on its staff and users are, what, again?

I'll take the engineer's design over some user's 'ideas' any day!

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveBSC /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yep, because most engineers aren't audiophiles, and wouldn't know what a soundstage even is. This is a pointless argument to continue. You're telling me that numbers are everything, good numbers = good sound, and that if there is to be a difference in sound, it must show up in some measurement that an engineer will understand.

we keep moving at 90 degree angles, it seems

I'm not talking about designing a system 'via numbers' but the issue at hand is DETECTING DIFFS.

that's all I'm talking about, right now. if you inject a variable into the system with the intention of making a change, the change MUST be observable, repeatable and quantifiable. at one level, it does not matter if you can explain the change but its enough (for now) to see SOME change.

change. delta. that's the concept I'm talking about and you continue to miss that nuance. oh well.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveBSC /img/forum/go_quote.gif You're telling me I need $400 tires to get the best performance out of my Ferrari? What's wrong with them, can't they design a proper car? All tires are the same! A $50 Walmart tire should be just as good, after all, the car will still drive down the street with them.

Bad comparison.

Tires have measurable and testable differences.

If $50 tires measured and tested exactly the same as $400 tires, I'd call the $400 tires a bunch of overpriced crap.

Cables don't measure or test differently from each other. Therefore, the specialty aftermarket ones are overpriced crap.

 

[Valens7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveBSC /img/forum/go_quote.gif You're telling me I need $400 tires to get the best performance out of my Ferrari? What's wrong with them, can't they design a proper car? All tires are the same! A $50 Walmart tire should be just as good, after all, the car will still drive down the street with them.

Yeah, this analogy doesn't make any sense. And for somebody who claims to not see any point in continuing the discussion, you sure seem to like prodding the hornet's nest.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Bad comparison. Tires have measurable and testable differences. If $50 tires measured and tested exactly the same as $400 tires, I'd call the $400 tires a bunch of overpriced crap. Cables don't measure or test differently from each other. Therefore, the specialty aftermarket ones are overpriced crap.

I absolutely agree...not the greatest analogy. For F1 racing the "formula" for success is typically quoted by experts as:

25% chassis, 25% motor, 25% driver and 25% tires.

Tires are huge for cars. And from personal experience: power cables, I'm not so sure. I know A-B'ing my stock cable vs. my Kimber PK14 power cable sometimes I think I hear a slight improvement and sometimes not so much.

The only certain thing is that my tube amp runs slightly cooler (but noticeably so). So there must be more resistance in the stock cable and looking at the quality of the two (including the plugs) I can see why. But the sonic improvements are not as vast to say the least.

 

[googleborg]

indeed, i use Schwalbe Nobby Nic tyes on my bike - not only are they annoyingly expensive but they wear out faster than cheap tyres - but the wearing out is them doing their job

cheap (or just wrong) tyres are fatal health hazards when used outside of a very limited range of applications, audio cables are just metal and insulation which anyone can design, almost impossible to do it wrong!

(just, make sure the signal goes in the right direction, i mean tyres have tread, afterall!)

but i'm DONE with crappy cable talk; what i've gathered from cables is they all measure within a very, very close range of each other and these measured differences are not congruous with perceived differences. all in all, it's bunkum

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by googleborg /img/forum/go_quote.gif but i'm DONE with crappy cable talk; what i've gathered from cables is they all measure within a very, very close range of each other and these measured differences are not congruous with perceived differences. all in all, it's bunkum

What cables have you personally tried on your cans or gear?

 

[smeggy]

if you want to make sure your amp/whatever sounds as it should with effectively no 'power cord' just go to lowes and make one from the same cheap solid core stuff that is what's connected to all the wall sockets in your house. Because that's the only way to ensure nothing strange is going on between the wall socket and your amp/whatever.

If the only difference is in power cord, just eliminate it from the equation. Now, argue your way out of that little nugget

 

[googleborg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aimlink /img/forum/go_quote.gif What cables have you personally tried on your cans or gear?

some of the worst cables anyone has ever built I'd wager, along with a nice simple van damme/neutrik one as my reference.

Reductio ad absurdum is a man's best friend in this crazy world - strip it down.

 

[music_man]

they make a difference if you believe they do! i have said this many times,sorry.
i have an engineering background so i know what's up. i just like having them.
why are there so many brands of bottled water? spend to your hearts content. i know i do

music_man
(hey,op notice anything lol)

 

[tosehee]

You believe what you want to believe.. Placebo is strong....

 

[MomijiTMO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man /img/forum/go_quote.gif why are there so many brands of bottled water? spend to your hearts content. i know i do

Yeah I have this mindset too. However, what do you do when there are people who insist that power cords can make a huge difference? Let's not even engage in a debate that they make a difference or not. Huge difference? Ok.... Yet these people seem to discredit people to get their point across. Oh well, no one can win.