[tommarra]

This is funny...power cables make zero difference (provided they are sufficient AWG). Most audio works on DC power anyhow..and the overall impedance of the capacitive and resistive networks of the power supply of audio systems is far greater than that of the power cords. 
 
There is NO difference whatsoever by the power cord. Now if there was a voltage regulator or a device that produces a perfect sine wave from the normal utility grade power to remove all the harmonics etc that could have a difference but that is a power conditioner and not a power cable.
 
All those selling super expensive cables are just big bluffs! I have tried both the stock cable as well as some expensive $500 Zu Audio cables and there is Zero, Zilch Nada difference in the audio quality. (I should have know being an electrical engineer  )
 
 
Edit: Corrected the typo : Zu Audio instead of Zo audio as I had previously mistyped.

 

[BIG POPPA]

Never heard of Zo Audio cables? Do you have a website?

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

Hey maverickronin, good to have a DIYer chime in. Head Injury if power cables aren't your focus....Great.... Have fun with the headphones.

If you build all your ICs and cables out of top quality components because you like nice things, and the end result is exactly what you want, then I respect that.  It's pretty close to what I usually do.  If you really like the look of some fancy and expensive cable, or just like to own nice things, then I'm ok with that.  It's not my philosophy.  I'm more of function over form kinda guy, but people are different, and I'm not going to dislike them for it.
 
What I hate however are the people selling insanely overprices cables and claiming huge improvements in SQ.  I think it borders very closely on fraud.  That will be true even they do turn out to work, because even if it does, it hasn't been proven yet.  That is generally why I'm vocal about this kind of thing.  For every person who says they hear a difference in a cable, I'd bet there are a lot more who are disappointed, but are too embarrassed to complain.  The flame warriors on one side will call them stupid for believing in a scam, while those on the other will call them cloth-eared gits unable to appreciate true quality.
 
I'm not going to deny that some people get considerable enjoyment out their cables.  What I am saying, is that almost all of them would get more enjoyment from putting that money into better 'phones and amps.  Even if cables do help, I think the fact that there not yet a consensus, shows that any effect they do have is so small as to not be worth worrying about until you have absolutely maxed out the rest of your system.  Probably so maxed out that the cheapest upgrade available is a $6000 power cable.
 
Sometimes I come across as a little harsh in this kind of thing, but I would rather save some anonymous lurker a few bucks, and alienate a few others on the other side of the debate, than the other way around.  The basic argument is that unless you've got money to burn and really love to tinker and fiddle, then you shouldn't invest in unproven technology.  That goes for everything, not just fancy cables.

 

[downsize]

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So what? I may be a little more practical? Making my hobby a science project? Nope. It doesn't have to be? Really it doesn't. Especially when it comes to something as simple as power cables. Some make power cables a lot more than they are? There is no mysteries to them. Just a little money to find out if they help your rig or not.

Gil .... I you must know by now ... Believers and non-believers will NEVER be convinced otherwise. Just count yourself among the fortunate ones who can hear the differences.
 
As an interesting side note related to this topic, I have met a new local Headfi friend who is an absolute GENIOUS of an electrical engineer. I mean he is really brilliant !  He threw together the amplifier in the photos here in about 4 hours one afternoon. It measures within .05 db of flat from 10hz to 50k.
 
He brought this amp over to my place a couple of weeks ago to compare it to my Blue Circle SBH amp. Both of these are plenty  powerful amps, with quality separate power supplies. He for the life of him could not figure out why my SBH sounds so much more transparent, and has a slightly higher level of musicality. BOTH AMPS WILL MEASURE THE SAME .... so they should sound the same .... .Yeah right.
 

 
 

 
 

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

He brought this amp over to my place a couple of weeks ago to compare it to my Blue Circle SBH amp. Both of these are plenty  powerful amps, with quality separate power supplies. He for the life of him could not figure out why my SBH sounds so much more transparent, and has a slightly higher level of musicality. BOTH AMPS WILL MEASURE THE SAME .... so they should sound the same .... .Yeah right.

Has he heard of placebo?

 

[tommarra]

@BIG POPPA: http://www.zuaudio.com/cables.html here is the website you wanna click Power and then select MK2 (thats the power cable I owned and sold)

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

He for the life of him could not figure out why my SBH sounds so much more transparent, and has a slightly higher level of musicality. BOTH AMPS WILL MEASURE THE SAME .... so they should sound the same .... .Yeah right.  

Well obviously your brain is measuring something different if you can tell them apart so easily.  They only measure the same on that one test.  I don't think anyone claims that one FR test tells you everything you need to know about how an amp sounds.  Neither do other simple tests like THD and noise tell you everything.  Everything you need to know about an amp can be measured, but the problem is that no one knows what to measure.  Audiophile amps are such a niche market that doing it by ear with the benefit of experience from lots of trial and error is easier than some huge study to find out what measurements are correlated with what perceptions.
 
Your single FR test is the same as comparing the acceleration of a top fuel dragster to that of a rally car, and concluding the dragster will win a rally race.

 

[High_Q]

^I agree, there are so many variables that you cannot pinpoint just by hearing.  Our senses are limited so we have created measuring tools to detects what cannot be sensed.  Not only are our senses limited, we have perceptions that are very subjective to stimuli.  If you have have a college degree, I'm sure you have taken a psychology course goes indeph about how biased our perceptions can be, let alone fallacy of our memory.  Our eyes for example cannot detect electromagnetic waves outside of the visual sepectrum, and we have measurement tools that can detect waveforms outside that spectrum.

 

[downsize]

 
Quote:

Well obviously your brain is measuring something different if you can tell them apart so easily.  They only measure the same on that one test.  I don't think anyone claims that one FR test tells you everything you need to know about how an amp sounds.  Neither do other simple tests like THD and noise tell you everything.  Everything you need to know about an amp can be measured, but the problem is that no one knows what to measure.  Audiophile amps are such a niche market that doing it by ear with the benefit of experience from lots of trial and error is easier than some huge study to find out what measurements are correlated with what perceptions.
 
Your single FR test is the same as comparing the acceleration of a top fuel dragster to that of a rally car, and concluding the dragster will win a rally race.

 
LOL .... There is zero placebo when both of you do not have ANY idea what to expect, and keep your opinions quiet until BOTH parties have listened, then reveal that both of you heard THE SAME exact things ... LOL
 
This is called .... those amps sound different from each other. If it all sounds the same, then go buy a pawn shop receiver from the 1970s .... it will sound the same to you, and you can probably pick one up for $20.
 
Placebo =  convincing yourself there are no audible differences.
 

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

LOL .... There is zero placebo when both of you do not have ANY idea what to expect, and keep your opinions quiet until BOTH parties have listened, then reveal that both of you heard THE SAME exact things ... LOL
 
This is called .... those amps sound different from each other. If it all sounds the same, then go buy a pawn shop receiver from the 1970s .... it will sound the same to you, and you can probably pick one up for $20.
 
Placebo =  convincing yourself there are no audible differences.

LOL have you heard of placebo?
 
Your friend seems like a sporting type. I'm sure he wouldn't mind setting up a blind test-which-shall-not-be-named with you. Then you can actually prove that you heard the same thing and we won't have to go by word of mouth!

 

[maverickronin]

 
Quote:

LOL .... There is zero placebo when both of you do not have ANY idea what to expect, and keep your opinions quiet until BOTH parties have listened, then reveal that both of you heard THE SAME exact things ... LOL
 
This is called .... those amps sound different from each other. If it all sounds the same, then go buy a pawn shop receiver from the 1970s .... it will sound the same to you, and you can probably pick one up for $20.
 
Placebo =  convincing yourself there are no audible differences.
 

Um...

 
I'm going to assume you meant to to quote Head Injury

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

@BIG POPPA: http://www.zuaudio.com/cables.html here is the website you wanna click Power and then select MK2 (thats the power cable I owned and sold)

They say it will make my computer work better. 

 

[haloxt]

People who think they should crusade against audiophile cables because of the price of some of them, remember you can DIY some cheap ones or get very thick stock cables. There's a lot of controversy over what geometry, shielding, purity, conductor material etc, sounds best. But one thing I think most cable believers also believe in, is that 24awg is much better than 33 awg for a headphone cable. A 4 conductor, fully shielded 24 awg cable can be had for less than 50 cents per foot. Or if you use lampcord you can get like 18 awg 3 conductor cables for cheap at home depot. Power cables can be cheap to make too, or you might stumble upon 12/3 or 14/3 awg stock power cables, which I'm pretty sure the majority of cable believers will say is better than say 22 awg power cables.
 
What I'm trying to say is, if you can't convince them to choose stock cables over multithousand dollar cables, you can try to convince them to use cables with the same gauge and shielding coverage as multithousand dollar cables that cost much less. Your crusade against expensive aftermarket cables will be successful if you can do this, and it won't offend as many audiophiles, who know that the biggest flaws with stock cables are gauge and shielding. Stock or DIY cables costing a few dollars will not have the same purity or conductor material as expensive cables, of course.

 

[SP Wild]

I braided 3 8 gauge auto power cables into furutech connectors - They are great, cheap and upgraded.

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

 
What I'm trying to say is, if you can't convince them to choose stock cables over multithousand dollar cables, you can try to convince them to use cables with the same gauge and shielding coverage as multithousand dollar cables that cost much less. Your crusade against expensive aftermarket cables will be successful if you can do this, and it won't offend as many audiophiles, who know that the biggest flaws with stock cables are gauge and shielding. Stock or DIY cables costing a few dollars will not have the same purity or conductor material as expensive cables, of course.

That's something I can get behind, if for no other reason than it looks cool.  DIY is always a big plus in my book, too.  Just don't go making unproven claim about it though.