[MadDog]

I thought Shure E5 has a decent soundstage as does Prophoninc 2X-s. By fair comparison between the full-size Sony MDR-V900 and these two canal phones I honestly felt no difference. Of course, I prefer the rich sound of Pro 2X-s over V900.

 

[mclaren20]

i find my d66 eggos to have a rather bad soundstage...


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[plainsong]

Eggo-bashing aside, I'd have to give my vote to the d66.

I agree about the Ultrasone soundstage, but that cord is just toooooo long for portable use, at least for me.

 

[pikawel]

The Eggo's are nice, fun phones. I don't mean to put them into a childish context but they are... fun. Good, cohesive sound. The seperation isn't the best but it keeps the music tightly knit. I kind of think they sound like they look like they would sound... make sense?

 

[KJ869]

plainsong, thats why you have small container what gives it out when needed Remeber im the 1 with 10 feet cord.

 

[plainsong]

Kj, my summer gear bag isn't that big to hold headphones and containers... but even so, me and making things just don't mix. I'm serious, I can't even follow a straight line while cutting with scissors. I should never ever be allowed to make any containers.

But cord aside, the soundstage of the Ultrasone is simply heavenly.

 

[JaZZ]

Seriously: ER-4S. They can create a huge soundstage if you use your imagination -- because they renounce to create any own artificial space. I know it's disputed and disputable, but to my ears they are the best portables in almost every respect, soundstage included.

 

[Hiker]

Quote:

Originally posted by JaZZ Seriously: ER-4S. They can create a huge soundstage if you use your imagination -- because they renounce to create any own artificial space. I know it's disputed and disputable, but to my ears they are the best portables in almost every respect, soundstage included.

I agree with this statement: you have to use your imagination. I get great imaging when I sit there with my eyes closed. I can hear accurate placement of every instrument in orchestral music. However, when I use them while I am running or doing something else, I find it more difficult to hear this imaging, most likely because I am concentrating less on the music.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally posted by jpelg I like the Koss lineup in general as a portable can. Soundstage is quite good with the pads on. Grado's (all the way up to RS-1's) do not have a wide soundstage. They may have other good qualities, but that one is not their forte'.

Nonsense. It reproduces the soundstage that exists in the recording. Let's get one thing straight.....soundstaging is in the recording, not in the headphones. And to reproduce (or simulate actually) an existing soundstage on headphones, you need carefully matched drivers.
To reproduce it correctly, you need loudspeakers properly set up.

Most of these headphones with "great soundstaging" are exaggerating it. I mean, with some of these things that put the drivers a mile away from your ear, you get a huge 'soundstage' on old mono recordings!

 

[pank2002]

I gotta agree with the other fokes who said the D6... I think they are pretty broad.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beagle Most of these headphones with "great soundstaging" are exaggerating it. I mean, with some of these things that put the drivers a mile away from your ear, you get a huge 'soundstage' on old mono recordings!

A certain distance of the drivers to the ears is the precondition to let the acoustically important outer ear play its role with adequately decoding the spatial information that's in the recording -- noticeably intended to be reproduced with speakers. BTW that's the reason why angled drivers provide a specially impressive soundstage: they simulate a more frontal sound source than a flat array. However, the pinna is an important factor when it comes to the impression of naturality with headphones, because that's the natural way sound waves normally reach the eardrum. Unfortunately the reflections inside the earpieces -- especially when they're not sufficiently damped and extra critical with closed designs -- can create an artificial soundstage. Some designs which avoid this problem in a high degree are (in decreasing order of ideality): AKG K1000, Sony MDR-F1, Stax Lambda series, HD 600, DT 880...

I agree with jpelg in this regard: the soundstage isn't one of the Grado's strengths. It's relatively flat. But supraaural headphones are a variant which has its merits anyway, with a markedly direct presentation as if you were near or even on the stage. In contrast to canalphones like the ER-4 they don't completely bypass the outer ear, a rest of it is acoustically effective and even interfered with undamped near-field reflections -- with the result that you may get the impression of a tiny soundstage if you're susceptible for such an effect. This isn't necessarily the case with everybody's ears and perception, but the motive to object your advocacy for the Grado philosophy or your criticism against headphones with great soundstage, respectively.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally posted by JaZZ A certain distance of the drivers to the ears is the precondition to let the acoustically important outer ear play its role with adequately decoding the spatial information that's in the recording -- noticeably intended to be reproduced with speakers. BTW that's the reason why angled drivers provide a specially impressive soundstage: they simulate a more frontal sound source than a flat array. However, the pinna is an important factor when it comes to the impression of naturality with headphones, because that's the natural way sound waves normally reach the eardrum. Unfortunately the reflections inside the earpieces -- especially when they're not sufficiently damped and extra critical with closed designs -- can create an artificial soundstage. Some designs which avoid this problem in a high degree are (in decreasing order of ideality): AKG K1000, Sony MDR-F1, Stax Lambda series, HD 600, DT 880... I agree with jpelg in this regard: the soundstage isn't one of the Grado's strengths. It's relatively flat. But supraaural headphones are a variant which has its merits anyway, with a markedly direct presentation as if you were near or even on the stage. In contrast to canalphones like the ER-4 they don't completely bypass the outer ear, a rest of it is acoustically effective and even interfered with undamped near-field reflections -- with the result that you may get the impression of a tiny soundstage if you're susceptible for such an effect. This isn't necessarily the case with everybody's ears and perception, but the motive to object your advocacy for the Grado philosophy or your criticism against headphones with great soundstage, respectively.

Well I guess nobody in their right mind would ever want a front row centre seat, or Etys. No soundstage.

The pinnae is only for 'localising' outside sounds. It does not 'decode' spatial information on a recording. The angling and distance of the drivers in relation to the ear 'creates' a soundstage. It does not reproduce' one. If the full signal is presented to your eardrums, then the original soundstage of the recording (if there is one) will be 'reproduced', or more accurately, simulated.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beagle Well I guess nobody in their right mind would ever want a front row centre seat, or Etys. No soundstage.

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Quote:

The pinnae is only for 'localising' outside sounds. It does not 'decode' spatial information on a recording.

That's right. But it's indispensable to adequately (!) decode the spatial information -- which, as mentioned, is meant to be reproduced by a free-field transducer system (loudpeakers). Thus the sound waves have to pass the outer ears for out-of-head localization (not necessarily direction localization in case of headphones) before reaching the eardrums. This in contrast to dummy-head/binaural recordings, where the outer ear is already part of the microphone: a case for canalphones (ideally).

Quote:

The angling and distance of the drivers in relation to the ear 'creates' a soundstage. It does not 'reproduce' one.

How can distance or angling «create» a soundstage? That's as if you would state the soundstage in a live concert is not adequately reproduced by your ears but artificially created because the sound waves have passed the outer ear before. Remember: normal recordings are meant to be heard through speakers -- from a certain distance! --, thus by means of the whole outer ear. The K 1000 is the only headphone that manages to passably reproduce the actual soundstage on normal recordings. And that's the reason why it's that impressive. But other, less capable (in respect to this discipline) headphones prove that imperfection isn't synonym for lacking musicality or credibility. For headphone listening has its own charm and isn't necessarily dependent on absolute naturality in terms of spatial reproduction (which is impossible anyway); you can get used to the closer, more intimate presentation, even to Grados and ...even to Etys.

Quote:

If the full signal is presented to your eardrums, then the original soundstage of the recording (if there is one) will be 'reproduced', or more accurately, simulated.

What do you mean with «full signal»? I agree if you mean a binaural recording. Although I haven't heard one which gave me the perfect illusion to be «there».

 

[JaZZ]

I agree with others here: the Portapros and probably the whole Koss family make a nice wide soundstage for a supraaural headphone. If only the bass was a bit less dominant. But what are sound controls for...

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally posted by JaZZ What do you mean with «full signal»? I agree if you mean a binaural recording. Although I haven't heard one which gave me the perfect illusion to be «there».

Make sure you have all the top end or spatial information will be missing, and this helps create the soundstage, or sense of space. Many people feel that a lack of spatial information is due to rolled off treble. If you have the proper 'encoded' left channel information going to one ear, and the proper right side information going to the other ear, you should have the soundstage of the recoding reproduced if you have full measure from top to bottom of the spectrum.e