Portable Optical amp for H140

Mar 30, 2007 at 11:08 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 19

Kabeer

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Hi,

I am interested in a headphone amp. My kit: Iriver h140 (with mostly Lame ripped mp3s), Shure e3c, e5c, Beyerdynamic dt250/80. (i will mainly want to use the e5c). An ebay cmoy amp.

Now, while this is all decent stuff, I was thinking that by using the optical output, and an amp which takes optical input, I could achieve a MUCH better result. (im not dissing the h140, its 1000x better than 4th gen ipod i owned).

So is there anything that is very small that will fit the job? Maybe even allow usb, for use with my laptop.

Or on the flip side, how would something like the MiniBox (very thin small analogue amp) compare to a generic cMoy altoids amp? I doubt for the price it would be much different would it?

Thanks for any help I get
smily_headphones1.gif


PS: (Also, is the crossfeed options in rockbox the same as those you find on some headphone amps?)
 
Mar 31, 2007 at 3:18 AM Post #2 of 19
First, welcome to Head-Fi and sorry 'bout your wallet.

There is no such thing as an optical amp. What you're referring to is a DAC (digital-analog converter). The DAC is fed a digital signal (via H140's optical output) and it then converts the digital data into an analog signal which can be fed directly to your cmoy.

Portable DACs are few and far between, but there is one that will suit your needs of portability, optical input and USB input, the Headroom Micro DAC. It is a highly regarded product by the majority on Head-Fi.

You may also want to get the matching Headroom Micro Amp since you sound like you may be interested in crossfeed. There aren't many portable amps with crossfeed option. In concept, the crossfeed option in rockbox and the one on the amp are the same, but implementation of the concept, and thus how they sound, can vary.

One last thing... if you're going to invest in a DAC and a better amp, you should seriously consider using lossless files. It's a cheap way to improve your source. I could tell the difference between the highest quality MP3s and lossless encoded files.
 
Mar 31, 2007 at 8:06 AM Post #3 of 19
I've just come home after a few rounds of Trois Pistoles and read Kabeer's first post. Entre-vous, friend, and props to your username's variation on the Sufi saint of music (Kabir/Kabeer, not the GBP's defensive end). I myself have composed chansons for choir on stanzas by that great poet. Of course, Kabeer might also be taken from the Quran (a beautiful name meaning Great), but the Sufi reference seems to compliment your musical interests.

You've made it clear that, when it comes to audio, lack of size matters, which is good for us to know. However, more information might help us to make recommendations. A few requests: your budget, your requirements (possible home/desk use to compliment the ultra-portable aspect; batteries and/or AC) and your musical preferences.

I've yet to hear the MiniBox-D, but it looks quite pretty. Unfortunately, there are no reviews. No point in your being one of the first to buy it if you're seeking a verifiably better-sounding amp.

However, I can tell you the cmoy sounds inferior to three other small amps I own. My hoary META42, crammed by builder Tangent into a tiny case as an experiment, sounds far better than the cmoys I once carried. Even if you can't afford a Ray Samuels Hornet or Xin SuperMicro, you can do better than the cmoy if better is important to you. You might also have a look at the DIY forums and read tutorials and technical papers by Tangent, whose writing is useful and admirably clear. He explains why portable pimeta and the late PINT might be preferable to the cmoy and, also, why certain parts (such as op amps) are better than others in relation to taste, use and power efficiency. You might also watch Head-fi's for sale forums for cheaper (and rarer) portable fare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by socrates63 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
There is no such thing as an optical amp. What you're referring to is a DAC (digital-analog converter). The DAC is fed a digital signal (via H140's optical output) and it then converts the digital data into an analog signal which can be fed directly to your cmoy.


Actually, combination Amps/DACs do exist, which is perhaps what Kabeer meant. Unfortunately, the least expensive tend to be USB-only; for some enterprising company and/or builder, the niche to fill will be the budget Amp/DAC with an optical in. The Aos Flute2 DAC would have been perfect for a portable user with an HP140 as a source. Unfortunately, It's been discontinued.

As for Amp/DACs with optical ins, the Grace 900 series slides to mind, as does the Corda Opera. Sadly, both are high end and their price reflects as much. The Corda Aria might be slightly closer to your price range, but it is far too large and only accepts USB. If the Total Bithead had had an optical in, it might have been perfect for you.

Certain DACs feature headphone amp stages, but these vary in quality. While I myself haven't heard the Lavry DA10 a la carte, I'd love to. Many have praised its headphone stage. Unfortunately, it probably exceeds your budget and size requirements.

The MicroStack does sound quite good; socrates63 makes a good recommendation. However, with my e4c and H140s, I favor the MicroDAC in combination with my Ray Samuels XP7 or Hornet, respectively.

If your chief concern is portability, then you might want to consider the Apogee Mini-DAC along with a Samuels Tomahawk. I've heard both with the er4s and would love to own that combination for portable/laptop listening. (However, some think the Apogee is a tad warm, which might or might not be an issue with the e5c.)

Is there a chance you'll be in the vicinity of the next Head-fi International Meet? If so, I suggest you go, and bring your IEMs and H140 with you. Audio is empirical; testing different DACs with your own setup will tell you far more about the best combination than any of us. If you can't make that one, then watch for Head-fi meets in your area.

When it comes to LAME alt.preset-insane versus FLAC, I have a simple preference: LAME for electronic music (which frequently works with triply degraded signal to begin with), FLAC for classical and jazz. I never encode IDM, microhouse, tech house or warm electronics in FLAC because the sonic gains seem minimal and prove space-inefficient with the H140.

I urge you to listen to all such methods (if you haven't) and choose whichever sound(s) best for your purposes according to your own tastes.

As for Crossfeed: I can't help you there, as I tend to dislike the effect.

Enjoy your quest for better sound. May the search afford you pleasure and inspiration.
 
Mar 31, 2007 at 6:48 PM Post #4 of 19
I assume you use Rockbox. If you, like me, like the option of thousands of songs to choose from without fiddling with a computer, try OGG. I find the mp3 decoder in Rockbox inferior to the original firmware. OGG is almost as good as FLAC in iRiver. I have IHP120 with 30gb.
 
Mar 31, 2007 at 11:58 PM Post #5 of 19
Hi guys,
Thanks for the replies so far.
Socrates63: Getting the Micro DAC & an amp would cost too much, (the micro stack combo is like $700-800!!).

Scrypt: Hehe thanks for the name comment, I wasnt actually thinking about it, but thanks for making me look clever
eggosmile.gif
.(doh the secret is out)

Anyway something like the AOS Flute2 would be ideal, but I havent found anything out there, anyone here know of something? (not crazily expensive).

So unless anyone find anything like the Flute2, my best bet would be to just get an upgrade to my cmoy amp?

Searching around, the Xin supermicro looks interesting, and reccomended for the e5c's (mine are actually e5's but their the same). You mentioned Tomahawk, it seems more expensive (maybe reaching my budget, I also have to ship to UK), any comparisons?
How long would I have to wait for a supermicro? is it really as great as people say? what would be better than it for the E5's?

As for FLAC, and ogg, well these would take aaggess to do lol, maybe when I find the time. Also crosfeed doesnt seem that interesting to me now iv looked at it and heard the rockbox version.

Thanks guys,
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Apr 1, 2007 at 2:33 AM Post #6 of 19
The Micro Stack proper is $600 new -- $300 for the DAC and $300 for the amp.

Since money is a concern (unfortunately
biggrin.gif
), I'd suggest getting a better amp and holding off on the DAC. For an amp, I strongly suggest the PINT ($75-$120). It rivals portable amps costing $300+. I think there's one up for sale right now. It drives well pretty much everything. I've read that the XP amp by MisterX is nearly identical to the PINT.
 
Apr 1, 2007 at 2:50 AM Post #7 of 19
Quote:

Originally Posted by socrates63 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Portable DACs are few and far between, but there is one that will suit your needs of portability, optical input and USB input, the Headroom Micro DAC. It is a highly regarded product by the majority on Head-Fi.


Yeah, products matching this description are rarer than the proverbial hen's teeth.

I've only seen one other possibility; Kaushama started a thread here, http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=230619, but nobody seemed to have any information about this international DAC of mystery...

The page refers to two capabilities:

A------USB TO SPDIF DIGITAL FUNCTION
B----- HIGH RESOLUTION DAC FOR CD TRANSPORT ALSO !

Says it can be battery powered, but doesn't say whether the pack is internal or external, which raises the question of whether it would be useful for truly portable use.

The Web page for the product is here: http://www.diykits.com.hk/Pro-dac.html. Looks reasonably solid, but there's no way to tell from a blurry pic, and there is precious little info given. The price, though, $100, is pretty tantalizing.

Anybody taken this puppy to the vet?
 
Apr 1, 2007 at 12:41 PM Post #8 of 19
Hi socrates,

Thanks for the PINT recomendation, I took a look and it certainly does look good. Although during my searches, the hype for the Supermicro IV by mrarroyo has got my interest peaked, especially since he had a Hornet and Pint in a round up review with the SM IV.

Its tiny, good battery, and supposedly sounds great with IEM's, a lot of what I want, so im thinking maybe to get this. And then an optical DAC later on if I find I need it (the dac in DrBenways post is intruiging. Im guessing there would be no problem using the SMIV as the headphone amp with any DAC then?

There seems to be no mention of the supermicro IV's bass though, anyone?

This route would hopefully also protect my wallet more
lambda.gif
.

What do you guys think of this? If I do want a SMIV I need to order pronto as I hear there is a waiting list.

Thanks.
 
Apr 1, 2007 at 7:19 PM Post #10 of 19
The Micro DAC is indeed wonderful. In fact, it's so good that I'm now thinking of getting a H120 or H140 like you. Why haul home my laptop everyday when an iRiver optical out to the Micro DAC will give me just as good a musical source?
 
Apr 1, 2007 at 8:52 PM Post #12 of 19
One more vote in favor of the Micro Amp and DAC! They aren't great on portable battery life but they do deliver great sound quality. My SR-71 is still my favorite amp but that takes into account my setup. For wonderful, relatively neutral sound quality the Micro Amp and DAC are an amazing setup for a portable rig.
 
Apr 1, 2007 at 10:27 PM Post #15 of 19
Hi guys
smily_headphones1.gif
,

Iv taken a look at all the posted stuff, probably the only single solution is what ichiro posted that meets the optical/amp need. Although it seems that is just an average amp, whereas the supermicro IV is supposeedly top notch.

cooperpwc, gpalmer; I wont get the micro stack combo, just too much money. Although the micro DAC on its own (or another equivalant) interests me, for use with both iriver and laptop.

Thelonious Monk; Iv heard that the 2-3week waiting time is back on now, the large months delays were due to another problem?

CSMR's idea of getting a custom build is probably a good idea, but I cant get the supermicro out of my head now lol, probably due to its size.

So in conclusion, I am now thinking just get a supermicro IV. From the line-out of H140, I assume I would get a great result with e5c's.

And when budget allows maybe a usb/optical DAC like the micro DAC to go along with the supermicro. And i'll be all set for years.

Do you guys think thats wise?

Thanks
 

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