[dshea_32665]

I just received my glass toslink cable. I knew this would probably be the most subtle of my upgrades, but I was wondering for those who can hear a difference, what that is?

I am not really interested in which is better or if there is a difference, that has been covered in other threads.

To me it is subtle, but the glass does tend to be just a bit smoother and just the slightest less simbelance (sp?), by less I mean about 1%. The glass sound may seem a bit weightier and darker in sound but just by a tiny bit.

Does this sound like what others experience? Of course I have been listening to a total of 30 minutes so this is just an initial observation, do these things burn in since they are optical?

I am glad I got it, it was cheap off ebay, but just curious. As I continue to listen I do hear more clearly my observations above.

dshea

 

[dd3mon]

From what I remembered, the plastic coax I had seemed to have a smoother sound, while the glass more detailed and clean. This is a distant impression (I've been using the glass exclusively for many months now), perhaps I'll switch them out again tonight and see if I can hear a decent difference.

-dd3mon

 

[dshea_32665]

After spending more time with the glass toslink, it does improve the sound noticeably, but still by the smallest amount of any upgrade I have done. I think it give a slightly purer signal which brings out more of my SR-71. The sound is detailed, but smoother and slightly darker and weightier. These are the same qualities that my SR-71 added to my setup, so I think the glass is allowing the SR-71 to do slightly more of what it does well. For $29.95 on ebay it was a great purchase.

dshea

 

[JeffS]

I'm sorry for asking, but are you serious????
I'm not trying to flame, but I don't understand how the cable type can
make a difference in this case.

I understood when I read about people spending a fortune on power cables and line conditioning. I understand using silver interconnects, and that stuff.

How does changing the optical cable make a difference in the sound though?
It's bits! little 1's and 0's. Either they get there or they don't.

My appolgies if I'm coming off sounding like a jerk, but I deal with fiber for computers on a regular basis. I just can't imagine a tonal difference in cable type here...

I would think this is a placebo effect.
I'm honestly curious.

-Jeff

 

[Mr.Radar]

SPDIF is a specification that is very prone to jitter (which can be audible, especially with a non-reclocking DAC), and glass cables are able to transmit the SPDIF data with less jitter.

 

[HMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffS I'm sorry for asking, but are you serious???? I understood when I read about people spending a fortune on power cables and line conditioning. I understand using silver interconnects, and that stuff. How does changing the optical cable make a difference in the sound though? It's bits! little 1's and 0's. Either they get there or they don't. -Jeff

Actually I think that it is even worse than that. I can understand when there is a difference between coax and optical--you are exercising different inputs--but here it is between glass and plastic fiber. Frankly I cannot see how you can have a tonal change. In the S/PDIF spec (IEC958), the sample is on bits 8-27 of a 32-bit subframe. I don't understand how you can effect those bits in order to have a tonal change without totally distroying the sound sample. Also keep in mind that at 44.1 kHz, we are talking about less than 3 Mbit/s bit rates. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't make any sense.

 

[HMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Radar SPDIF is a specification that is very prone to jitter (which can be audible, especially with a non-reclocking DAC), and glass cables are able to transmit the SPDIF data with less jitter.

Again, I'm sorry here but this is not true. Jitter is a function of input and output systems, it really has very little to do with the medium i.e. glass or plastic. If a system is prone to jitter it will suffer in either case. Also like I previously stated we are dealing with bitrates of less than 3 Mbit/s. Any modern fiber system will be able to deal with rates that are at least 2 orders of magnitude higher.

 

[tomek]

actually, i found the cables i used made a big difference.

the glass was more clear, transparent sounding.

plastic had a more organic, warm feel to it.

i much preferred the plastic, it was more musical, but others may have preferred the glass.

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomek actually, i found the cables i used made a big difference. the glass was more clear, transparent sounding. plastic had a more organic, warm feel to it. i much preferred the plastic, it was more musical, but others may have preferred the glass.

That mirrors my thoughts exactly!

Biggie.

 

[dshea_32665]

Jeff, you aren't coming across badly. I bought the cable because it was cheap and I thought what the heck. I thought exactly as you did, how can it make a difference for optical. Maybe the actual connectors are higher quality? It makes no sense to me either, and the difference is slight, but I'll be damned if I do hear the subtle difference mentioned above. I guess if it is a placebo affect, who cares because I believe it sounds better. Ignorance is bliss. But, I really believe I am hearing a difference as I continue to A/B them every few hours.

I didn't really want to get into the whole discussion of whether there is a difference (previous threads), I was mainly wanting to know that for those who do hear a difference, what it is.

Okay, I can actually hear that the glass is clearer and more detailed. This would be consistent with my observation that it brings out more from what my amp does so well.

dshea

 

[ReasonablyLucid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffS I'm sorry for asking, but are you serious???? I'm not trying to flame, but I don't understand how the cable type can make a difference in this case. I understood when I read about people spending a fortune on power cables and line conditioning. I understand using silver interconnects, and that stuff. How does changing the optical cable make a difference in the sound though? It's bits! little 1's and 0's. Either they get there or they don't. My appolgies if I'm coming off sounding like a jerk, but I deal with fiber for computers on a regular basis. I just can't imagine a tonal difference in cable type here... I would think this is a placebo effect. I'm honestly curious. -Jeff

I too deal with fiber networks for computers and I also call shens on this.

Prehaps the difference they hear is that some of the data is indeed not making it to the destination on the plastic cables so the sound properties slighly change?

Glass is used with computers for data intregity, the data *will* get to the destination switch/computer.

I think with the plastic you guys are losing a small percentage of the sound (a 1 or 0 here and there) which could change the qualities of it slightly.

 

[JeffS]

Thanks,
I'm glad I didn't come off the wrong way, because I can assure you
the way I was thinking, I would have

I'm glad that the upgrade cable has imroved your listening experience. I will admit that I still don't get it. when dubbing via optical I've never experienced a difference except to my wallet.

Seriously, It's good to hear various peoples reports on things like this.

-Jeff

 

[dshea_32665]

Interesting comments on plastic being more musical and organic. I went back to the plastic again and I can actually appreciate this difference. I also now know what people mean by detailed versus musical (not that detail precludes being musical). The plastic is smoother and seems freer and more natural. The glass is more detailed and dense.

It actually reminds me to a lesser extent from when I rolled an AD8620 opamp into my Piccolo DAC, replacing the LM6172. The AD chip was more detailed but was a bit too much. I went back to the more musical and warmer sounding LM amp. The glass cable isn't quite as dramatic of difference as the opamp comparison, but it is in the same vein.

I think I am starting to feel the same as tomek and Notorius, the warmer and more natural sound of the plastic cable seems to me preferrable, at least for the classical music I am listening to.

dshea

 

[HMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReasonablyLucid Glass is used with computers for data intregity, the data *will* get to the destination switch/computer. I think with the plastic you guys are losing a small percentage of the sound (a 1 or 0 here and there) which could change the qualities of it slightly.

I guarantee you that if you are using optical in a computer network, you are in the 800 Mbit/s and greater data rates. With CD sound, we are talking about 3 Mbit/s data rate with 16 bit samples. The S/PDIF spec using 32 bit subframes so for each frame only half the data is sound sample. In addition, there is also a parity check to validate that data. So one error per frame would cause the frame to be dropped. Greater than one error might or might not be detected. But at 3 Mbit/s on an optical system, it is highly improbable to have one error let alone more than one error frame. So the likely scenario of losing a 1 or 0 here and there is that of a frame drop. I would think that dropping frame would be much more noticeable than a tonal or sibilance change. Also keep in mind that these errors must be completely random. So that these tonal changes must change over time.

I am sorry if I'm coming across too strong. Trust me, I'll be the first to fall on my sword if anybody can provide a reasonable explanation. I just don't see how glass versus plastic could have tonal or sibilance changes.

 

[gaboo]

I think the sound difference is due to the different refraction coefficient between glass and plastic. This results in different jitter, despite the almost nil bit error rate.

Remeber: adio (from the DAC) = bits + clock. Plenty of info here: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=90069