[Jazzkammer]

mscott58 makes no mention of power in his post and power does not equate to quality

 
 
 
Well, hopefully he will elaborate a bit on power then.  Regardless, the effect is the same:  whether it's because the amp is underpowered for harder-to-drive headphones, or because the quality of the amp is subpar, it necessitates using an external amp in many cases. 

 

[mscott58]

Well, hopefully he will elaborate a bit on power then.  Regardless, the effect is the same:  whether it's because the amp is underpowered for harder-to-drive headphones, or because the quality of the amp is subpar, it necessitates using an external amp in many cases. 

Regarding power, the DAP had enough to drive my Nobel K10's higher than a volume that I could listen to.

 

[Mython]

 

Well, hopefully he will elaborate a bit on power then.  Regardless, the effect is the same:  whether it's because the amp is underpowered for harder-to-drive headphones, or because the quality of the amp is subpar, it necessitates using an external amp in many cases. 

Regarding power, the DAP had enough to drive my Nobel K10's higher than a volume that I could listen to.

 
I've no personal opinion on the ZDP-100R, but as far as power is concerned, it's definitely not just about SPL.
 
Even at moderate listening SPLs, with easy-to-drive CIEMs, decent current delivery from an amp stage can make itself apparent in dynamics and overall cohesiveness and solidity of presentation. It's really not an easy thing to describe, but it can be subjectively apparent if there are good reserves of current delivery available, or if the opposite is the case. I was not at all impressed with the Sony ZX1 (on a number of levels), for example.

 

[cattlethief]

Heard it today as well as the ak380, paw gold, and the qp1r and they all sounded great. I don't think anyone would be unhappy with any of them but they each have their own strengths. The ak wins the eligence and the beauty contest, but is way overpriced for its sq. The qp1r looks really rich and feels expensive but it has the driving power, slam, and control that is unique - but the ui is very lacking coming from my ak100ii. The pioneer has good power, great sound, and a great ui - once you learn it - but it is the biggest of the bunch making it the least pocketable. The paw gold was very tacky with the gold leaf looking wheel, but was much smaller than I pictured being chunky, but expensive looking and very pocketable. The paw won on Sq beating the rest, but lost big on worst ui. Tried again at Hifiman to get a 901/s to work but could not get my music onto the player and the music was unlistenable so I give up on that ugly player.

The moral of this story is that the pioneer comparison well at its price and sounds Google being a great choice for someone that is not worried about easy pocket ability.

As a fellow 100ii owner and soon to be owner of Pioneer how does it compare to AK 100ii,theres a lot of people dissing it before they have even seen it,I get the impression that a lot of Audiophiles think Pioneer lost there way a bit,since they were kings back in late 70,s and 80,s,(proud owner of HPM-100 speakers and PL-50LII turntable.)

 

[Barra]

Heard it today as well as the ak380, paw gold, and the qp1r and they all sounded great. I don't think anyone would be unhappy with any of them but they each have their own strengths. The ak wins the eligence and the beauty contest, but is way overpriced for its sq. The qp1r looks really rich and feels expensive but it has the driving power, slam, and control that is unique - but the ui is very lacking coming from my ak100ii. The pioneer has good power, great sound, and a great ui - once you learn it - but it is the biggest of the bunch making it the least pocketable. The paw gold was very tacky with the gold leaf looking wheel, but was much smaller than I pictured being chunky, but expensive looking and very pocketable. The paw won on Sq beating the rest, but lost big on worst ui. Tried again at Hifiman to get a 901/s to work but could not get my music onto the player and the music was unlistenable so I give up on that ugly player.


The moral of this story is that the pioneer comparison well at its price and sounds Google being a great choice for someone that is not worried about easy pocket ability.

As a fellow 100ii owner and soon to be owner of Pioneer how does it compare to AK 100ii,theres a lot of people dissing it before they have even seen it,I get the impression that a lot of Audiophiles think Pioneer lost there way a bit,since they were kings back in late 70,s and 80,s,(proud owner of HPM-100 speakers and PL-50LII turntable.)

I really like my ak100ii for its look, size, build, signature, ui, and overall usability. The pioneer doesn't make me want to switch. But if I wanted to save a few bucks and I didn't already have the 100ii, the pioneer would make a viable option. All the daps are sounding pretty darn good now and it is nice to have a number of viable options. Splitting hairs, I do like the ak100ii sound quality slightly better. Splitting hairs again, I liked the sq of the ak380 slightly better than the100ii, but not $3000 better. To be fair, I am not sure the 380 vs 100ii could be consistently differentiated in a blind listening test with my fellow head-fiers - the increased sq is that slight.

 

[doublea71]

I really like my ak100ii for its look, size, build, signature, ui, and overall usability. The pioneer doesn't make me want to switch. But if I wanted to save a few bucks and I didn't already have the 100ii, the pioneer would make a viable option. All the daps are sounding pretty darn good now and it is nice to have a number of viable options. Splitting hairs, I do like the ak100ii sound quality slightly better. Splitting hairs again, I liked the sq of the ak380 slightly better than the100ii, but not $3000 better. To be fair, I am not sure the 380 vs 100ii could be consistently differentiated in a blind listening test with my fellow head-fiers - the increased sq is that slight.

I don't think we're going to see a dap that is leaps and bounds above others in terms of sound quality anytime soon. There will have to be some kind of technological breakthrough for this imo.

 

[doublea71]

Does anybody else have the feeling that we we've sort of hit a brick wall with daps? It just doesn't seem like there's nearly as much innovation with daps when you compare them to headphones - they're all pretty much in the same ballpark in features and sound quality. All my opinion, of course.

 

[mscott58]

After listening to the various DAPs at RMAF/CanJam I'd differentiate my "winners" as follows:
 

1. Best SQ/UI/build-quality regardless of price = AK380

 

1. Best SQ-alone bang for buck = QP1R

 
Cheers 

 

[mscott58]

I would try to talk to the rep again because according to the rep the Pioneer hardware is done and the only thing being tweaked is the software. So in terms of sound quality or sections of the player being changed I honestly don't think it's going to happen (unless of course the pioneer rep was wrong).

Good point. I didn't get to talk to them again as I had already left the show by the time I posted my impressions. However, the reps did say they were seeking feedback. Whether that meant they were open to changing anything is a different point. Maybe they were just being cool in wanting to talk to their potential customers. Anyway, the guys at the booth were very nice and hopefully they'll feed some information back to R&D in Japan, whether the unit is locked-and-loaded already or not. Cheers 

 

[Barra]

After listening to the various DAPs at RMAF/CanJam I'd differentiate my "winners" as follows:

• Best SQ/UI/build-quality regardless of price = AK380

• Best SQ-alone bang for buck = QP1R

Cheers 

Agreed for the most part. Even though I would never buy the paw gold due to looks and interface, the SQ was the best I have heard. But the 380 was sexy and very much smaller than I pictured.

 

[Mark2010]

Any word on what kind of Battery Life this player will have ?

 

[Barra]

From my RMAF impressions:
 

1. Pioneer XDP-100R/ONKYO DP-X1: No ONKYO at the show, but the Pioneer guys say that it is the same DAP, same chassis, same chips, same UI, same signature, but the ONKYO is dual DAC/AMP and balanced. They also said that the ONKYO is a long way off – up to a year but unknown – while the Pioneer will be out around late November. The UI was nice, but not as intuitive as the AK, but great once learned. The recessed dedicated buttons on the side including volume worked with the screen dark for great usability. The size was large but thin to support a big screen making it pretty, but not overly pocketable. The Pioneer guys are still trying to convince the developers to leave the handle off the top like the ONKYO for better usability making it smaller and allow custom cable jacks to fit. I agree feeling that the handle was somewhat cheap looking. The SQ was great like all DAPs in this price range are. Even an iPhone6 sounds great at this point. But the SQ was definitely a top tier contender – even though I liked my AK100ii more. It provides additional options for a good price point considering the price of the other top tier contenders. Having an AK100ii, I found no reason to get excited about this one through. Here is what I captured in photo - yes that is a speaker on the bottom.
   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SivaMira]

Did they really went out of their way to put a speaker there?

 

[kawaivpc1]

I like the new pictures because it has grey gunmetal color. But, some of them seem to have totally bright aluminium color which looks like 70's. Do they offer two colors?
http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/1444445/



It looks like totally cheap aluminium in this photo... I hope it has dark grey color.. if they don't have dark grey, they should offer dark grey, even piano black color. Satin finish would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Barra]

I like the new pictures because it has grey gunmetal color. But, some of them seem to have totally bright aluminium color which looks like 70's. Do they offer two colors?
http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/1444445/



It looks like totally cheap aluminium in this photo... I hope it has dark grey color.. if they don't have dark grey, they should offer dark grey, even piano black color. Satin finish would be greatly appreciated.

They also were displaying a white version which they had removed the handle during RMAF