Pioneer XDP-300R | Twin DAC ES9018K2M | Balanced Out | Android | MQA | 2x MicroSD | WiFi | AptX

Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by substi, Oct 1, 2016.
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  1. Andrew Harper
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  2. capnjack
    I bought my Cayin N5 from them a couple of years ago and had no problem, however it’s clear that they are not in the UK as you pointed out. I was lucky maybe, whereas others may not have been. So I have to agree with you and err on the side of caution!
     
    Andrew Harper likes this.
  3. Andrew Harper
    Slightly off topic but there's a small watch company called Gentleman With Watches, they make some nice quality pieces (originals not replicas BTW) and I've treated myself to a few. However; the website is based in the UK but the deliveries come from Japan (which can take up to 40 days) so like you say sometimes you never know where the products are coming from. There's no mention of it on the website but for presents and special occasions it can be annoying! :)
     
  4. /guy

    last night it was charged to 95% and i had quit all apps which put up a window when you hit the tasks button. i used the /stand alone/ button to put it into hibernation and just left it like that all night. just now i activated it and i'm at 57% battery. the /system/battery/ isn't much help, listing: android system 10%, device idle 7%, android os 5%, screen 6%, music 5%, media 4%. some of these figures must be from the few minutes i had it turned on before i put it to semi-sleep.

    losing 30-40% of your battery in less than 24hrs in what is supposed to be a deep idle mode is very concerning. nearly every one of my phones and tablets and laptops lose less than 10% when in their idle or standby states for the same time period. i've owned a few android devices and have a pixel phone and tablet running oreo, but i've been in the apple eco-system for a long time and i know just enough about android to be dangerous although i do know what sorts of things to look for. hopefully today i'll get some time to evaluate and test further.

    i like having an android device to backup my iphone because there are many apps which only run under android. and although i have an android phone, it's usually too much trouble to carry or maintain both phones. i was hoping that the 300r would serve double duty as a hi-res music player and a lightweight android platform for other apps and indeed it is fast and has a very nice crisp screen which isn't shamed right next to the pixel which is double the resolution. but this battery issue, until i figure it out, will mean i will have to power down the 300r until i want to use it as a music player. i can live with this because it boots in less than 2 minutes, but i'd rather figure out how the game the power system so i can keep it powered on all the time as i do a phone.

    tks! /guy
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
    Andrew Harper likes this.
  5. /guy
    ... actually, i can figure it out, but it will mean i have to do the math on things. the /ampere/ amp will tell me what the current draw is in any given configuration with any given app or combination of apps running and then i just have to run the formula to figure out how much of the battery that is in percentage. for instance, right now with nothing running (not counting the system and daemons) i'm drawing 200-300mah which must mostly be screen. and btw, i've got the brightness down to about 30% and if i take it down to 10%, i can save 40-80mah, so that tells you the display sucks a lot of current, relatively speaking. and it's a gorgeous display, so it's hard to complain about that. but the /stand alone/ turns off the display, so it shouldn't be a factor in these calculations trying to determine why that mode isn't as battery saving as it should be.

    here's the pioneer specs:

    Battery Size: 1,630 mAh / 3.8 V •
    Battery Life: 16 h (96kHz/24bit, FLAC, Unbalanced Playback)

    and indeed, if i didn't run anything else and just left the device on as it is now drawing 200mah, then it will run 8 hours given 1630mah/200mah. but even without putting it to the test i know that if i run something (the music player perhaps) which raises the draw to 400mah i'm immediately down to 4 hours and in my casual glances at the meter, when i've got several things running i'm drawing 800mah. which bring me to my original 2 hour estimate of battery life.

    there, i've done some of the math. but what math did pioneer use to come up with 16 hours of music playing time i wonder? hmmmmm.

    /guy
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
    Andrew Harper likes this.
  6. SteveOliver
    @/guy I've disabled all the, mostly Google Apps that I don't use, basically all of them, I know others have too. I can leave mine in standby for days and only loose a few percent of battery charge.

    WiFi does drain the battery a lot though < 1 day per charge with it on, so I mostly leave it off now and play music from the SD cards.
     
    /guy likes this.
  7. /guy

    i usually leave it in airplane mode and only check for updates and things once a day. but if i want to stream from tidal that will be impossible.

    a few days back i made a half-hearted attempt to uninstall some apps and for some reason, the ones i chose were locked. i'll have to re-investigate that. first thing i did was to turn off gmail sync so i could just check for mail upon occasion. i think i'll just give up on my idea of using this as a backup to my phone--i was hoping i could check email and facebook without having to pull out the phone, but i think that was wishful thinking--i'll just strip it down to a music player as much as is possible.

    oh, when you say /standby/ do you mean just the normal android standby with airplane mode on or do you mean the special /stand alone/ mode pioneer supplied?

    tks, /guy
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  8. /guy
    i've investigated and probed and prodded a little bit and the best i can do is get it down to drawing 160mah with airplane mode and the display on although turning airplane mode on didn't yield much immediate savings as i wasn't using bluetooth or streaming. so theoretically it would last 10 hours in a useless mode unless you just wanted to admire the clock and the wallpaper. :)

    playing some music with the native player (airplane mode on) jacks it up to 300+mah which theoretically would give you 5hrs and with the display. this seems in line with what folks are reporting, but nowhere near the 8-16hrs promised and reported in some places.

    the unknown variable is what the current draw is when listening to music with the display off when in /stand alone/ mode as, with no display, i can't see how much current is being drawn. but if i was guessing i'd say that the display accounts for the major portion of that 160mah baseline. if indeed the /stand alone/ mode can take it down to 100mah you could get the 16hrs of music playing as long as you didn't want to change tracks or see the display.

    but why does mine drain so much when in the /stand alone/ mode and nothing playing and me not poking or prodding anything? yeah, i'm in the dark there so far. but let's say that it's drawing 100mah in that mode without the music playing to take the 'worst' case and it will drain 10 / 16 = 6.25% per hour. which sounds like just about what is happening. so, imo, it badly needs a sleep mode which is just above the layer where you have to boot it. my imac goes from drawing 100w down to 1-2w when in the deep sleep mode and it can come out of that mode to full functionality in just a couple of seconds.

    /guy
     
  9. SteveOliver
    Welcome to the world of all portable equipment, where battery life is never as promised. I like you have no idea where manufacturers get the numbers from. The problem is there is no standard for measuring the battery life AFAIK, so what happens is one manufacturer "invents" a number and to sell gear all the others "invent" numbers of similar magnitude.

    If I was selling thing A with similar specs price etc to thing B with a quoted battery life 5 hours less which one would you buy? Its only when you actually use it that you discover the truth, usually after the date you can return it has passed.

    Its the same in many industries, my car has a quoted MPG of 67, I've never managed to get more than 52 MPG.

    I would admit to the 300R having a disappointing battery life too, but then my Chord Hugo 2 and Dell Laptop never get the quoted battery life either.
     
    /guy likes this.
  10. /guy
    don't get me wrong--i've lived with batteries all my life going back to the ni-cad days when my photography and radio days depended on them. they were dreadful, yet, what else was there? and although i've forgotten a lot of the dc electronics i used to be fluent in, i can still run the numbers given the right test equipment. and although i don't know android that well, i know how operating systems have to interact with the hardware.

    and i've owned (and own) so many battery-powered gadgets i know when some device is drawing more power than it should. after recent apple os updates a couple months ago both my iphone and apple watch would die after just a few hours whereas they previously lasted nearly two days given my usage. but after the new os had 'settled in' and i had turned off stuff the update had turned on, i got the previous behavior back. so i like to think that i've had a lot of practice spotting the potential trouble areas.

    anyway, after i last wrote i uninstalled some apps which have to run in the background and tweaked some settings and by the end of the day i had consumption to down to a reasonable amount--about 1-3% per hours idle and 6-10% normal operation with wifi/bluetooth off and still under 12% with those on. and this is running airdroid which has to run all the time because, being on a mac, i can't live without it. and now it even supports the iphone, but not to the extent it supports an android device.

    so i had about 90% battery when i put it into the /stand alone/ mode last night and this morning i have 78% left. this is not near as bad as it was when i first got it, but still isn't good for a mode that panasonic says shuts virtually everything down. as of right now i'm in the 'disbelieve' camp when it comes to their description of this mode. but the bottom line is that i've gotten it to the point where i can live with it instead of having tp plan out charges during the day to keep it going for the day.

    tks, /guy
     
    SteveOliver likes this.
  11. Andrew Harper
    Well I've decided to take the plunge anyway. Ordered last night for a good price.

    I suppose my only slight worry is battery but we'll see how it goes.

    I'll still keep the iPod Classic as a backup (especially in the car where I can still select everything via the head unit touchscreen) but it will be interesting to see what the Pioneer is like for daily use.

    I was starting to lose my patience with iTunes as songs and cover art were vanishing and the file structure is a bit crazy to say the least (I'm up to 11,000 songs now). I guess my only slight reservation is I use the iPod at the gym whereas the Pioneer is so much nicer I would be scared of damaging it.

    My iTunes issue is going to be getting the 500 or so purchased songs onto the DAP (if possible), I've seen some apps available but I get the feeling that you have to be very careful with them. The iTunes solutions I've seen don't seem to be available any more.

    Downloaded the demo version of DBPoweramp and got it to do some cd's in FLAC and MP3@128 in separate folders so I could maybe copy those MP3 files to my Garmin running watch. The watch software takes the music straight from the iTunes library and everything is in 320 or Apple Lossless. So space disappears quickly.

    I wish someone would do a silicone case for the Pioneer though. Don't mind the official one but I always prefer the silicone cases as I just feel they offer slightly more protection to the player.

    Any preferences to the ideal file format? I suppose FLAC is the preferred option. About a third of my iTunes collection is in Apple Lossless, before that I used 320AAC. I'm going to spend a week or two going through all the CD's again.

    Thanks, Andrew.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
    /guy likes this.
  12. /guy
    i'm starting from scratch on hires audio and the 300r was my first hires player purchase. but for my mac i got an ifi nano black label dac and i can't recommend it highly enough as it supports all (i'm pretty sure) of the same formats the 300r does. but i had to get a specific player in order to use all the features and that was audirvana. i detest the name--i can't pronounce or spell it, but it lights up the dac like an xmas tree and works pretty well seamlessly with it. and i have no recommendation to give you on format as i'm a total no0b to this but /flac/ seems the choice. i got a 9-album collection from hdtracks (simon & garfunkel) and somehow i bumped the dropdown choice box and got /aiff/ files. i panicked until i realized that the 300r plays /aiff/ files as does itunes and /aiff/ seems to be lossless and uncompressed so i just got a cheap converter from the mac os app store in case it happens again. but hdtracks was nice enough to give me another download in /flac/ format.

    still getting used to the player, but it plays as well with itunes as it does with the dac--nearly seamlessly. but i'm nearly done adding to itunes as i hope to only add hires material from here on in, so i copied my itunes library off to another folder and i'm going to use that folder to sync with my 300r. since i don't quite trust that x-dap program and the android connect seems primitive and flaky and likely slow to copy, i'm committed for now to just keeping that hires folder and the 300r in sync manually by either mounting the sd card on the mac or using airdroid to transfer the occasional addition. i won't be adding too much because it would costa fortune to try to upgrade all that music i ripped to itunes a couple decades ago at 192kbps i think.

    oh, and i'm whipping the power situation into shape i think. my recommendations are to give it 2-3 days to 'settle in' and let android do whatever maintenance it needs to do and don't overload it with android apps--especially ones like mail and facebook with fetch data all day long. you'll be leaving it nearly constantly on while you're setting everything up anyway and that won't be a good evaluation of the battery life when simply playing music.

    oh, and that case is a love/hate thing. first, it doesn't afford a much better grip than the slick aluminum of the 300r. and to say it fits tight is a severe understatement. you'll have to get out a small crowbar to force it over the volume knob. and after i got the new player and did some cleanup on my audio files i needed to do a fresh copy back to the 300r of about 100gb, but the case covers up the sd slots and i had to pry it off and i really really though i was going to have to cut it off. for now i've found a zip-up case which it fits perfectly into one side of with the other side holding earbuds and can hold memory sticks or cards and other small items.

    good luck and come back and let us know how you like it. /guy
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
    Andrew Harper likes this.
  13. Lurk650
    @Andrew, iTunes purchases should play fine. Just drag and drop. Yeah the player is too nice and bulky to use at the gym IMO
     
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  14. capnjack
    Well, I’ve pulled the trigger and mine shipped today :)
     
  15. usagishi
    I bought my Pioneer XDP-300R this past month and it was a decision between Onkyo DP-X1 and the 300R.
    I chose 300R in the end because of the loose headphone jack issue from Onkyo and 300R was just accessible at the time.

    This is my first Hi-Res player so I can't really provide much comparison but I am going to highlight a few observations I have made so far.
    1) Solid build, easy and user friendly android interface
    2) Power Output: I use this to drive my Campfire Audio Jupiter. And it seems to be doing the job and I am usually fine with volume around 70~80 sometimes higher or lower depending on the audio source.
    However several people have pointed out that this may not have enough power to drive headphones by itself and I think it is true. (just pair with an amp and you are good to go.)
    3) Sound Quality: It's spectacular. Again using my Jupiter as a baseline there is just nothing to complain about :)
    4) Battery Life: Because of the android system it tends to drain fairly quickly even when it's left idle. That's also because I don't turn off all the background apps. Battery life would probably be more sustainable if you turn off everything else.

    Overall, the player has been great. I just have one really frustrating issue regarding the official Pioneer case for the 300R.
    THIS THING WON'T BUDGE AT ALL WHEN I TRY TO REMOVE IT.

    When people say it fits like a glove, it totally does. And if you already have your memory cards inserted and do not have the intention to ever remove the case again, then you are good to go.
    But I made the mistake of putting on the case without all my memory cards in and I am now stuck with a case that would most likely need to be cut (Which I think someone has done it before already) if I want it to be removed again.

    You have been warned.

    (I am going to try to add more comments on the player as I spend more time with it)
     
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