PGGB Offline Remastering
Jun 4, 2021 at 8:47 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 83

llamaluv

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Wanna use this as a place to discuss the new PGGB upsampling software which was released publicly just a couple months ago? What do you guys think? There's much to discuss about it, and it may be difficult to talk in depth about it in some of the various hardware product-specific threads (eg, M-Scaler thread, etc).

From the website:

PGGB is a PCM remastering application for upsampling or downsampling PCM audio files with customizable algorithms to suit your needs. PGGB also transfers all the common metadata tags to the converted files. PGGB always saves the converted files in .wav format. Image and cover information within the metadata are transferred when possible. PGGB supports all PCM rates including DXD up to 3.072MHz. PGGB will convert DSD (up to DSD 1024) to PCM.​

Also worth calling out is the PGGB thread on Audiophile Style, which gets posted to frequently by the developer as well as some of the initial beta-testers (including some head-fi members).
 
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Jun 5, 2021 at 9:21 PM Post #2 of 83

N Quarter

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Thanks for starting this llamaluv, I have read the whole thread on Audiophile Style since a few members mentioned PGGB last week I think it was. There are a few members on the Naim forum I belong to that use PGGB also, who are also posters here.
I have also read through the remastero web site, and I plan on signing up for the free trial soon, maybe tomorrow actually.
I am pretty sure my Laptop is underpowered for long term use with PGGB, but I hope it will grind its way through a few albums so I can try this exciting new tech. If I hear what everyone else is reporting, I may buy a more suitable Laptop.
From what I gather so far, you just go through the steps on the remastero web site, and he emails you a temporary licence to use his software...is this correct?
Any advice you can give me before I start would be greatly appreciated. I use a Windows Laptop that I only just upgraded from 7 to 10, in order to try this.
I use an Mscaler with TT2, I also have a Naim Core that I currently store my 2300 albums on. I use a Naim ND5XS2 streamer also, so I will definitely be keeping the Mscaler for online streaming.
A friend on the Naim forum mentioned I should create a folder on my Laptop, and when I get the licence I should point it to the folder, or put it in the folder...is this how you did it? I have an IPad and Laptop, but I am not very competent when it comes to all this computer stuff, so a “dummy’s “ guide to get me started would be a great help.
Thanks again for starting this thread.
 
Jun 5, 2021 at 10:19 PM Post #3 of 83

llamaluv

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A friend on the Naim forum mentioned I should create a folder on my Laptop, and when I get the licence I should point it to the folder, or put it in the folder...is this how you did it?
Hi, so the steps are: Download the installer from the website. Run the installer. Run PGGB, which should have just gotten installed. And then (quoting from the PGGB webpage)...
Once you have installed successfully, your PC/Mac Hardware ID will be displayed if you go to the ‘About’ tab of PGGB. Use this Hardware ID to request a license. We will email you a license file.
[...]
Once you have obtained a license file, use the ‘License’ button to browse to the license file. Once the license is installed, it displays your name and the duration of the license (either perpetual or with a time limit). Hardware-id is tied to the PC/Mac you run it on. The license is non-transferable. [etc.]

From what I gather so far, you just go through the steps on the remastero web site, and he emails you a temporary licence to use his software...is this correct?
Yup that's right. Additionally -- for what it's worth -- should you subsequently go for the full version, you go through a similar manual process: Ask them for an invoice, pay via Paypal, and they send you a new licence, which you install "on top" of your previous one. On both occasions for me, Zaphod the developer was very prompt.

I am pretty sure my Laptop is underpowered for long term use with PGGB, but I hope it will grind its way through a few albums so I can try this exciting new tech. If I hear what everyone else is reporting, I may buy a more suitable Laptop.
That makes sense. And "grind" is a pretty appropriate word, too, lol. On my full-size gaming PC, file conversion takes about 1 minute for every 3 minutes of music (for 16 fs). Which in my case comes out to about a full week to convert my entire music library. I'm going to try to restrain myself from committing to a gigantic batch job to get it done all in one go, knowing that I may end up changing my mind on some of the conversion settings, and almost guessing that the developer will make improvements or add features along the way that would necessitate generating new sets of files.
 
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Jun 5, 2021 at 10:38 PM Post #4 of 83

Progisus

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The max sample rate of your dac dictates your settings. My settibgs for TT2 or Hugo2:

C0D780B9-636C-4725-B1B9-7CCE38F93766.png
01022822-E49B-48FC-B595-FA832B11E229.png
 
Jun 5, 2021 at 10:42 PM Post #5 of 83

N Quarter

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Thank you for the reply, my plan is to give it a go tomorrow (Sunday) when I can dedicate time to it. Can you give me your impressions of the difference that PGGB gives you? One other thing, should I use 24 bit 16 FS in the settings, since I use a TT2? I assume I will have to play the PGGB directly off my Laptop via USB directly connected to the TT2. I do not have HQPlayer on the Laptop currently, will VLC media player work, or do I need some other type of player? Once I get a few albums converted, I guess I can try playing them with my Naim Core, but I don’t know if BNC, is an appropriate connection for PGGB. I used to use JRiver on my old Laptop before I got a dedicated server and streamer, so I suppose I could use it again if needed.
Thanks Progisus, I just saw your post of your settings as I am writing this.👍🏿
 
Jun 5, 2021 at 10:55 PM Post #6 of 83

Progisus

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Thank you for the reply, my plan is to give it a go tomorrow (Sunday) when I can dedicate time to it. Can you give me your impressions of the difference that PGGB gives you? One other thing, should I use 24 bit 16 FS in the settings, since I use a TT2? I assume I will have to play the PGGB directly off my Laptop via USB directly connected to the TT2. I do not have HQPlayer on the Laptop currently, will VLC media player work, or do I need some other type of player? Once I get a few albums converted, I guess I can try playing them with my Naim Core, but I don’t know if BNC, is an appropriate connection for PGGB. I used to use JRiver on my old Laptop before I got a dedicated server and streamer, so I suppose I could use it again if needed.
Thanks Progisus, I just saw your post of your settings as I am writing this.👍🏿
You’ll need to use usb into the tt2 to get 16fs playback. I ripped at 24b as I have an SRC-DX dual coax to my Hugo2 that uses 24b. Audirvana, jriver, roon can all do 16fs 32b. I don’t know much about Naim.
 
Jun 5, 2021 at 11:17 PM Post #7 of 83

llamaluv

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Can you give me your impressions of the difference that PGGB gives you?

Quoting myself, from here:
The more time I've listened to PGGB up-converted files over the last couple days, the more I like it. A lot of the same descriptors and phrases used to describe the M-Scaler immediately come to mind -- more organic/analog, greater dimensionality, more natural-sounding, better bass extension, less harsh and more rounded leading edges, more subtle microdetails, etc. Another word that comes to mind for me is "lush", which is interesting and unexpected, and not an adjective that I'd ever associated with the M-Scaler exactly, just to add as a point of contrast...

Additionally, I find its effects -- all of which I like so far -- to be more easily noticeable than that of the M-Scaler. I've always been a little ashamed to admit that -- as much as I like the M-Scaler -- sometimes I struggle to notice the difference when the fourth glowing ball is red versus white (yes I know, I'm a baaad audiophile).

Also, the better the recording, the more noticeable the results. As a sanity check, I put a dozen pairs of test tracks into a shuffled playlist, and was reliably able to differentiate the original 44khz versions from the upscaled 705k versions in a self-administered "blind" listening test.

I'm still kind of in wonder at the positive difference PGGB makes, to be honest. Like as if I'd gotten some special multi-thousand dollar mod for my DAVE...
 
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Jun 6, 2021 at 5:22 PM Post #8 of 83

N Quarter

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I knew this would be above my skill set. I spent several hours updating games my laptop to windows 10 the other night, well I thought I did. I was on the PGGB site trying to increase my virtual memory and got to a certain page, it told me I am on Windows 7 still. I distinctly remember one of the pages I was on telling me the system is now Windows 10. Maybe I have both installed, who knows, I give up...I am not qualified to do this. How do I see if I am on Windows 10,lol?
 
Jun 6, 2021 at 5:50 PM Post #9 of 83

kennyb123

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I knew this would be above my skill set. I spent several hours updating games my laptop to windows 10 the other night, well I thought I did. I was on the PGGB site trying to increase my virtual memory and got to a certain page, it told me I am on Windows 7 still. I distinctly remember one of the pages I was on telling me the system is now Windows 10. Maybe I have both installed, who knows, I give up...I am not qualified to do this. How do I see if I am on Windows 10,lol?
The geniuses at Microsoft surely don’t make it easy. I am in the computer industry and this stuff comes easy to me, but I stopped using Windows a while ago. Before there was a Mac version of PGGB, I ran a Windows VM that had previously been running Windows 7. I upgraded to Windows 10 but eventually got messages telling me that I should upgrade to Windows 10. Who in their right mind came up with the idea that Windows 10 can be upgraded to … Windows 10?

Try this:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...you-have-12d35019-4da9-0cb1-ba47-f8b031b712ad
 
Jun 6, 2021 at 5:54 PM Post #11 of 83

ZappaMan

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If you know the run command, you can enter a command: winver

which will tell you your version
 
Jun 6, 2021 at 7:06 PM Post #12 of 83

N Quarter

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A guy on another forum told me to type about into the start menu, I did and it says Edition: Windows 10 Pro, so why did it say windows 7 when I tried to change my virtual memory as per PGGB site?
 
Jun 6, 2021 at 9:06 PM Post #13 of 83

kennyb123

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A guy on another forum told me to type about into the start menu, I did and it says Edition: Windows 10 Pro, so why did it say windows 7 when I tried to change my virtual memory as per PGGB site?
Because quality and customer experience aren’t a priority at Microsoft.
 
Jun 6, 2021 at 10:21 PM Post #14 of 83

koven

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Loving PGGB. Ran a couple albums in 16fs to use with Roon (doesn't support 32fs). My annoyance is, if ~half your listening is streaming, it's kind of a hassle to switch back and forth between HQP/HMS upsampling for streaming, and disabling HQP/HMS for PGGB local files. Maybe there can be some automated solution in the future.
 
Jun 7, 2021 at 12:04 AM Post #15 of 83

N Quarter

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Because quality and customer experience aren’t a priority at Microsoft.
Understood, but that does not help me figure out what is going on. When I click about in the startup menu it says windows 10 Pro, but the window to change virtual memory says windows 7?
 

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