[timmyGCSE]

Quote:

 
For what it's worth, I am very happy with this platform, and feel that what it has--as well as the planned ongoing evolution and improvements to it--was necessary to moving Head-Fi forward, and I'll say more about that later, too.  That said, yes, this platform has bugs.  It needs some changes to both the member-facing user interface / navigation, and also improvements for administrators and moderators to do their things.  Communications of what's needed and what's wanted are constant, including I don't know how many hours of telephone calls, and even more hours in an online project planning and collaboration area, since the move to this platform.
 

Sorry to be so critical Jude and I realise you are spending lots of time and effort on this but I have to disagree with the statement in bold. I can understand the change etc. and I can get used to a new UI - now the colours and text is sorted it actually looks pretty nice, but what imo is unacceptable is loss of core forum functionallity - these are not bugs.
just some examples - no stickies, poor multiquoting implementation and poor quoting in general, no forum statistics such as a member list, no text to smiley auto conversion, user control panel is terrible, no friends, on the main forum pages there is no indication of how many pages a thread is (this pisses me off badly) - there is plenty more but I've not had much sleep so I can't remember (and some may have partial implementation such as forum stats).
I know you say stickies caused complaints but they are part of a forum, as is everything else - Huddler may build a community or whatnot but as a forum in terms of pure functionallity..vBulletin kicks ass. Even the free phpBB has most of the functionallity that the huddler 'forum' so vitally lacks - it really feels like a badly tacked on addition to a wiki/review site and this is a big paradigm shift bearing in mind the huge head-fi community was built almost in an exclusive forum based environment - not as a review site with a forum as an afterthought. It is almost biwildering how much huddler have strayed away from the usual forum format (I really can't get over the no page count of each thread on the main forum pages - to me that is a bizarre concept).
The 'fancy' stuff such as smooth scrolling and that, I could live with it if core functionallity was there but its still crap and I expect most head-fi vBulletin power users are cringing (along with us no longer being able to use forum tags - bring back the IMG tags
 
and to explain something else further, the multiquoting - instead of clicking the multiquote buttons then clicking reply, for the last message you have to click the single quote button..err wut? so what if I mulitquoted 5 posts on page 7, read through to page 21 and decided not to multiquote any more posts...so I have two options - go back to page 7 and click single quote on the last post I multiquoted or click a random single quote on page 21 and remove it from the reply. Both options are just a stupid waste of time - maybe not too much but sorry I sit there with maybe 10 vBulletin tabs open (now sadly not on this forum any more but another vBulletin forum I moderate) and I click multiquote, click reply, bam, done. Now with this forum I have an added layer of complexity that is just time wasting because of poor implementation.
 
I think huddler could be good - but they've either not put too much thought into the forum element in which case I find it sad that head-fi is using such a feature-poor platform, or they've tried to be different and stray away from the vBulletin/phpBB format - in which case is dumb and they should really consider putting stuff back in
 
edit: oh and the swear filter doesn't work, and you can't ninja edit

 

[bcpk]

For a brief period of time yesterday, Head-Fi switched back to vBulletin. My heart leapt with joy. And then it returned to what we have now, so I left.
 
The change saddens me because I have been through a similar change-over on another forum. Protestation continued for weeks on end, but the administrators either had no regard for the feedback of their users or were bound by contract and monetary agreements to push through the switch. In the end, most of the veteran users (I would not count myself a veteran of Head-Fi by any means, don't read this the wrong way), less given to sycophancy towards those in power, gradually left and the forum descended into inanity plastered with adverts.
 
Another forum was founded in an attempt to reunite the previous generation of users that had made the place enjoyable prior to the change-over, but its userbase was small and it did not attract new members without the official title of the previous forum. I can see such a thing happening in this case, but it pains me for something like that to have to happen when it could have all been avoided in the first place.
 
I still don't know the justification for this change. All I can think of when I remember the previous forum is the distinct lack of complaints I saw. If this is meant to be an improvement, why is there so much more grief about what we have now than what there was before? I do not recall users crying out for integration of products into catalogues, wiki bolt-ons or review databases. The community was not bemoaning vBulletin like they are Huddler. Head-Fi always had the air of being heavily commercialized, but this change has taken it too far.

 

[.Sup]

Its not perfect but I will not cry about it, I'm sure it will get better with time. Overclock.net where I also reside will use the same code and skin and its best to get used to it. Actually I might like this theme more as the old one-it does look more sleek. My wish was to make it darker which is better for the eyes-I said that before the switch as I expected it to be as bright as the old theme or even more. Give site administrators a chance-none has been given so far. Complaints poured on them and site from day 1. The PM system works very well, much better than the old one that was full of quotes-like a jungle but here all conversation are neatly organized. I find this to be a big +.

 

[Snake]

 
Quote:

For a brief period of time yesterday, Head-Fi switched back to vBulletin. My heart leapt with joy. And then it returned to what we have now, so I left.
 
The change saddens me because I have been through a similar change-over on another forum. Protestation continued for weeks on end, but the administrators either had no regard for the feedback of their users or were bound by contract and monetary agreements to push through the switch. In the end, most of the veteran users (I would not count myself a veteran of Head-Fi by any means, don't read this the wrong way), less given to sycophancy towards those in power, gradually left and the forum descended into inanity plastered with adverts.
 
Another forum was founded in an attempt to reunite the previous generation of users that had made the place enjoyable prior to the change-over, but its userbase was small and it did not attract new members without the official title of the previous forum. I can see such a thing happening in this case, but it pains me for something like that to have to happen when it could have all been avoided in the first place.
 
I still don't know the justification for this change. All I can think of when I remember the previous forum is the distinct lack of complaints I saw. If this is meant to be an improvement, why is there so much more grief about what we have now than what there was before? I do not recall users crying out for integration of products into catalogues, wiki bolt-ons or review databases. The community was not bemoaning vBulletin like they are Huddler. Head-Fi always had the air of being heavily commercialized, but this change has taken it too far.

I believe some of the "justification for this change" can be discovered with my setup - Firefox 3.5.9 with NoScript 1.9.9.74 (in other words, all the newest stuff).
 
Thanks to NoScript I get to see every single thing that a website does "behind the scenes" in terms of extensions, scripting et al.  The new Head-Fi site uses yahooapis.com for its scripting host code base in support of the reply / comment system.  Previously, Head-Fi used, of course, vBulletin (as you note) with its self dependent code base.  Quite a bit of the Head-Fi change must, therefore, be directed to a bit of corporate decision making to bring the Head-Fi codebase construct into Yahoo's corporate standard protocol. 
 
This also brings up another point, one made by Uncle Erik in another thread: mobile browsing.  The new codebase is constructed and highly dependent on the JS / AJAX paradigm that Yahoo and other large companies currently trumpet.  The vBulletin codebase was less dependent: the reply boxes did not require JS as it only added features such as the emoticon support, AFIAK and based upon experience.  AJAX was not supported in vBulletin, of course, and was not necessary.
 
AJAX and JS looks good on a desktop system...IF the desktop system's JS engine is both accurately built and sticks to the standard (cough, cough...IE...cough)...but on mobile system ALL JS and AJAX - that's ALL, let's admit - bog down the system entirely due to the extra CPU threads. 
 
So browsing this site on a desktop is joy, while on a mobile system...much less so.  And as long as the codebase sticks to the Yahoo AJAX codebase, that's not going to change anytime soon.

 

[nealric]

I would just like to chime in and say this new UI is absolutely terrible. I've seen forums die off over less.
 
The switch could kill the goose that laid the golden egg. 
 
For the love of all that is good and holy, at least add some contrast. The place is a wall of white and off-white pastels. 

 

[fenixdown110]

We just need a few minor tweaks and darker skins to avoid the suntan.

 

[Snake]

Quote:

I would just like to chime in and say this new UI is absolutely terrible. I've seen forums die off over less.
 
The switch could kill the goose that laid the golden egg. 
 
For the love of all that is good and holy, at least add some contrast. The place is a wall of white and off-white pastels. 

Huh?!  I believe this is because most of you are using a non-color calibrated workflow.
 
On my calibrated screens this forum is now all pastel blue-grays.  The main background reads as

 e7eaf0

an extremely pale blue-gray (231:234:240 in RGB).  The post headings are a medium-pale blue while the most other objects are a dark blue-gray.

 

[wierdo124]

How long has Head-Fi had the new platform? and everyone's already screaming bloody murder. For pete's sake, try it for a couple weeks.

 

[tjohnusa]

I like it.....music sounds better and beer tastes great! Seriously...I like the stickies gone

 

[music_man]

i am very uncomfortable with it. to that end i will most likely be here only if something is really important to me and no longer casually.
it hurts my eyes,is too hard to navigate and is slower overall imo.
 
music_man

 

[Blueiz]

Well, gave the new site another try... My eyes start to hurt after 10 minutes.... That will keep me away... So sad.

 

[elliot42]

Quote:

AJAX and JS looks good on a desktop system...IF the desktop system's JS engine is both accurately built and sticks to the standard (cough, cough...IE...cough)...but on mobile system ALL JS and AJAX - that's ALL, let's admit - bog down the system entirely due to the extra CPU threads. 

The biggest problem I see in having such a heavy reliance on AJAX is that this breaks a fundamental rule of web publishing and accessibility. A web site should be able to cater for all possible users; this includes allowing access to at least basic web site functionality and navigation, without the need for JavaScript and even without the need for images. This is to cater for people in all types of situations, including people without access to new computers or fast Internet access (people do still use 56k dialup) and as such have JS and/or images disabled for performance, visually impaired users that rely on img alt tags to be able to use text-to-speech programs for navigation, anyone accessing from a mobile device (of which there are many judging by the feedback everywhere).
 
For reference, an article about poor accessibility and some real-world effects: http://www.smh.com.au/news/breaking/nz-firms-risk-lawsuits-over-poor-websites/2005/05/16/1116095885248.html
I'm not suggesting Head-fi is going to be sued or anything (it may lose some members), but I'd like to highlight the great importance of accessibility. As well as the trend of letting it go by the wayside in favour of 'shinyness'.

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

 The new Head-Fi site uses yahooapis.com for its scripting host code base in support of the reply / comment system.  Previously, Head-Fi used, of course, vBulletin (as you note) with its self dependent code base.  Quite a bit of the Head-Fi change must, therefore, be directed to a bit of corporate decision making to bring the Head-Fi codebase construct into Yahoo's corporate standard protocol. 
 

Lovely conspiracy theory, but nonsense.  Yahoo APIs are open source and free to access directly from Yahoo.  They are used in quite a bit of web software, often with the option of having them loaded from the web site or from Yahoo (to save bandwidth).  
 
Did you read jude's post a couple of pages ago?

 

[Deep Funk]

I am getting used to it, the 'old' Head-Fi was more to my liking now I just hope some of the old features return, like blogging. 
 
The whiteness, still annoying but at least it is 'white' and not red. 
 
The 'new' Head-Fi works faster for me, no more thirty second warnings. Other than that it mostly works. Besides the 'sleek' look makes reading easier for me. I could write some serious long pieces in the new reply frames. Oh well...

 

[mark2410]

Quote:

I'm not a huge fan of the new platform (much of it stinks), but I think most of us would agree Jude has every right to do whatever he wants with Head-Fi.  The Internet rewards foresight, and he had it.  My understanding is that he put together an alternate forum when HeadWize was going through issues, then gave it direction that HeadWize probably never had.  My impression is that the vision of a few people did much to propel headphones as a hobby toward the mainstream.  Without people like Tyll and Jude, there's a distinct possibility I would have passed headphones over completely. 
 
As far as I know, there's no committee sitting around deciding what to do with Head-Fi, sharing the burden of its successes and failures.  The community is a critical component of a forum, yes, but so are the guys and gals behind the scenes.  Head-Fi might be a completely different place under the leadership of another forum owner.  As I've said, I hope Huddler incorporates many of the changes suggested here in the last couple weeks, and I wouldn't be displeased if they focused primarily on improving the forum.  However, I don't think Jude really owed it to anybody to ask for consensus on managing the future of Head-Fi.  He seems to be genuinely interested in taking the recent requests and complaints of its members seriously, and if there's one forum that could have a major influence on the future of Huddler, it's Head-Fi.

i didnt mean it as suggesting jude had to ask permission or anything, its his site and he can do what he likes with it.  what i meant was if this change had been known people could have had the opportunity to say "hold on a sec, i really love XYZ about the site, loosing that would really be a problem for me and the community as a whole."  if nothing else people might have just had warning that boom all these things are going and thats that.  to me it seems people didnt know the site was changing at all (i got an email from one member asking if i knew the site was down for an upgrade) clearly some didnt the notice the notice that went up and even that was only there for a couple of days before the event.  i know some one who was deeply unhappy about the sudden loss of the friends list and compounded by the fact they had no warning it was going.
 
i feel a little informing before hand would have meant people wouldnt have been so shocked by the changes and losses.