[fishtankfish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidicarus74 you can't forget either that the sound on the stage isn't nearly as loud as the sound in the first few rows. The loudest mains speakers are pointed toward the audience, not the artists. Generally speaking, stage monitors (including in ear monitors just like the ety's and ue's) aren't nearly as loud as the gut churning speaker stacks pointed towards the attendees.

Thats true, but most audience members don't go on two-month tours and see concerts every night.

 

[EdipisReks]

this is exactly why isolating IEMs are such a good idea for musicians.

 

[AdamWill]

I've never seen anything to indicate that any "type" of sound causes more hearing damage at a given sound pressure level than any other "type" of sound. Volume is the one important factor. More than 80dB, for a prolonged period of time, is dangerous to your ears - whether it's being produced by a speaker, by headphones, or by a didgeridoo.

 

[nspindel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishtankfish Thats true, but most audience members don't go on two-month tours and see concerts every night.

Hmmm, you've not met many Deadheads, I guess....

 

[HiWire]

The trick is to set your volume level objectively, not subjectively. Taken to extremes, this means measuring the output properly with a decibel meter. Realistically, set your volume at a safe level in quiet conditions and resist the temptation to turn it up. Many players have a visual/numeric indicator of volume level; use this as a guideline.

For example, I set the digital volume on my Sony portable at 7 little bars (out of approximately 50) normally, 9 if I want to hear full detail in a quiet environment. I never go over 10 regardless of the recording level, and listen to 7 on the street or on public transit.

I always start the volume on my amp at home at the zero position (6 o'clock), and gently turn it up to about 9 o'clock, where channel balance and sound quality are about normal. After this, I turn it up until the music sounds "rich" enough (usually no higher than 10:30) and back it down slowly after that. You can also go in the opposite direction, and very gradually increase from zero, but I find my method works best for my hearing and equipment warm-up adjustment (about 20 minutes). I turn the volume back to zero when I am done listening.

 

[ironmics]

It would seem to me that sound waves are sound waves. No matter what source they are coming from. The only difference is that intensity level goes down exponentially the further you are from the source, which shouldn't matter, since you would turn up speakers until an acceptable lisening level. So the same music through the same type of speakers i.e. overly bright, dark, etc would cause the exact damage that headphones would. I don't know if treble or bass causes more damage to your ears though, if it's treble, then it makes sense a show wouldn't do much damage, since a live show has A LOT more bass than it does treble. Also in the studio you'd need something very detailed, and it would probably have harsher highs. Other than that, sound is sound, no matter where it comes from.

 

[Albatross05]

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazychimp132 Thanks for the link. It's interesting and a good warning. I wonder if headphones do cause hearing loss at significantly lower levels than speakers, or if he just listens to headphones at very high levels, perhaps as a method to drown out the already loud live instruments. I try to keep things at a pretty low volume to avoid hearing loss.

Well...I started listening to headphones when I was about 14. Up until the last 3 years or so, I wasn't conservative with the volume controls at all. I've listened for many, many hours on headphones over the years (I'm 32 now) and I haven't noticed any really significant hearing loss. I get a bit of ringing every now and then after extended listening sessions. I think that's probably the key. Headphones tend to suck you in to the point to where you just don't want to stop listening. Hearing loss tends to occur more over extended periods of listening to damaging volume levels.

Still....I've been exposed to relatively loud music for many years and am nowhere near deaf. I may not hear quite as well as someone my age who's never really been exposed to loud music but I hear just fine. I checked myself using test tones and can hear up to 18 KHZ.

Still, I started moderating the volume and cutting sessions a bit shorter just because I don't like to take risks with my hearing.

 

[smeggy]

Heh, my ears are shot to sh#t.
Aside from my hi-fi + 'phones I've been in the ARMY with lots of short loud bangs, in construction with lots of prolonged high DB sounds and as a Mechanic with more loud noises all day long. This has been going on with music for 35 years and the other stuff for 20+ years. I do have a permanent whistle, my higher frequencies are not so high any more, but luckily my work now is office based making games... with more loud bangs

Is it the headphones that did it? You betcha! I'm sure none of that other stuff did any harm at all, nope, none whatsoever

 

[Blitzula]

I went to 20 or more concerts (loud heavy metal shows at times, no earplugs back then) over years, and got very lucky with no ear issues at all.

I did one year of headphones at minimal volume levels (although long time periods) and have lost hearing, as well as having pain in each ear. I used one of these oft-praised IEMs (the ones soooo good at protecting your hearing) over an afternoon, and developed a ringing in my right ear that hasn't stopped for-oh-nine months or so now.

I'm not saying don't use headphones or IEMs (although more and more I think that something inside of your ear and pointed at your eardrum may be just as if not more risky than headphones). I don't know, as well, how much my brand choice (Grados) contributed to the problem. But I'd be very careful and listen to your body.

 

[mulveling]

Who knows. It could be that headphones and a history of loud concerts have a multiplicative effect. Like how smoking and drinking together raises the risk of certain cancers much more than the sum of the two risk factors alone. Alternatively, perhaps headphone usage is a catalyst for years of damage to suddenly reveal itself.

Ah, the mysteries of the human body...

 

[britishbane]

Huh, I always thought his hearing loss was due to the explosion of Keith Moon's drum set durring a show on TV (Ed Sullivan show???), where the explosives guy was convinced by kieth to put way to much explosives in the set.

 

[Blitzula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulveling Who knows. It could be that headphones and a history of loud concerts have a multiplicative effect. Like how smoking and drinking together raises the risk of certain cancers much more than the sum of the two risk factors alone. Alternatively, perhaps headphone usage is a catalyst for years of damage to suddenly reveal itself. Ah, the mysteries of the human body...

Yes, it could theoretically be that I had absolutely no symptoms of hearing loss, pain, or ringing, and then-coincidentally or through some twist of fate or cumulative use-a year of headphone use exactly coincides with a complete change of circumstance. I wouldn't bet on that though.

No, my problems were clearly headphone related. I wonder, though, if I'd been a Sennheiser user, if that would have been the case. Certainly the HD-650 wasn't fatiguing at all (unlike the Grados), although I found it so boring that I didn't really want to listen to music.

I really didn't have any problems with my SR80/Ipod at an hour of usage a day or so. It was only after many hours of use that the symptoms manifested themselves. So a warning for duration as well as volume (I definitely didn't abuse the latter).

 

[allenf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nspindel Hmmm, you've not met many Deadheads, I guess....

 

[chadbang]

I used to be a rock concert photographer. I did this for about four years. I'd sit through two shows sometimes in a night (we're talking front row of AC/DC). No ear problems.

Then I got into recording my own music. One night, after about five hours of headphone use, I developed a terrible earache that lasted six days. My ears were sensitive for weeks. Couldn't stand to talk on a telephone. Years and year past... My ears recovered. Perfectly normal again, luckily.

Later in life, I joined head-fi and got into headphones for listen fun. Started listening for hours at work. My ears started ringing after about six months. Developed pain and sensitivity. I now have permanent tinitus, although two years without headphones it is now liveable. Not noticeable unless the room is quiet, although even that can be distressing.

If I do use headphones or more than, say, a hour and a half my ears start to ring and tinitus flairs up. On the other hand, I can listen to my stereo for hours with no ill effects.

Like Pete Townshend, I agree that headphones are more damaging that live events. And I believe, like Bitzula, that duration must also be factored into the equation. If you plug into your source for several hours again, I'm certain damage will be done.

Headphones are a fun hobby, but you can damage your hearing. Pete Townshend, who has lived with tinitus for years, has probably studied this phenomenon (he opened a clinic in London for tinitus) more than anyone.

 

[HiWire]

I probably have mild tinnitus from my early years of amateur Head-Fi: listening to crappy stock Panasonic headphones and earbuds and Koss earbuds from various cassette/radio walkmans from the late '80s through the '90s. Another contributor was listening to my Sennheisers in bed... I now believe that listening to headphones in sleep at moderate volumes is a bad idea. I've often woken up near the end of an album and wondered how it got so loud... hearing must get more acute at night. Now my ears ring when I listen to my old Senns... must be the excessive bass or turning up the volume to enhance the weak mids.