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Out Of Your Head - new virtual surround simulator

Discussion in 'Computer Audio' started by project86, Nov 7, 2013.
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  1. Nec3
    Well it definitely works with the my preference, thanks for the suggestion :D
    Edit: I just have to get accustomed to this crossfeed.
  2. Richter Di
    Now I have the problem every day.
    it happens often when I switch between Speaker configuartions to find the right one for the headphone I use.
    But I found also a simpler way to deal with the problem.
    The speaker settings are suddenly switched to stereo instead 7.1 and als 44.1 16 bit. Switching it all back and it works.
  3. darinf
    Hi @Richter Di ,
    Sorry about the problems. I am not sure why Windows or some other app would be changing your settings on the Out Of Your Head Virtual Audio Device.

    Do you notice any correlation to when the settings get reset and something else happening on your computer? i.e. does the settings change correspond to launching a particular app, or rebooting, or loading a web page, or any other scheduled background task? Do the settings change when switching presets or output devices? Or does it happen randomly if you are not touching the computer?

    I have been testing Out Of Your Head with the latest Windows Creators updates on various computers and laptops and I am unable to reproduce the problem you are experiencing. So, if we can't reproduce the problem, it makes it tough for us to fix the problem.

  4. Richter Di
    As I wrote it starts fine and then I change the speaker setup in OOYH and the shrieky noise starts.
    Can try to make a video and post it here.
  5. darinf
    Yes, please do, if you can make a video.

    I have been testing on our Windows systems and cannot reproduce the problem when switching between different speaker presets in the Out Of Your Head Control Panel.

    Maybe try not switching presets too quickly. Say not more than once every 10 seconds or so.

  6. Richter Di
    Okay, I did not film it, but this time it was obvious what happened. So I opened the Windows audio settings and checked for 7.1 and 32 Bit 48. Everything fine. I then opened the Netflix app. Don't get the hopes too high I had used it only one time before. The other times I used Qobuz and Sony Media Go 3.2 and had the same problems. But anyhow. After I started the Netflix App it changed the settings to Stereo and 16 Bit forthy something. Not sure if it is 44 or 48.
    I could change it back on the fly no need to close anything. Now it works.
  7. Dawnrazor
    Super cool idea.

    Would totally buy this but afaict it wont work on my system. I really need it to be a vst plugin or work with asio. My playback software only outputs asio and I would rather not use asio4all.

    Is there a vst version?

  8. darinf
    Hi @Dawnrazor ,
    Currently we do not have a native ASIO or VST solution. We may have something in the future as a VST plugin but don't have an ETA.
    What device are you using that only supports ASIO? I assume it's some kind of pro audio gear.
  9. Dawnrazor
    Hey Darin. Thats great!!

    The player is the bottle neck is the player it only supports ASIO. The player is cplay which is probably only used by 5 people so I can see there is no big market for it.

    You are right the soundcard is a pro card its the lynx L2b.
  10. darinf
    Yes, I see that cplay only supports outputting to ASIO devices.
    But you could use Out Of Your Head with your LynxTwo B sound card since the drivers look like they support Direct Sound, and Windows Wave Audio.
    So, if you wanted to try Out Of Your Head but use another media player app besides cplay, you could. But I understand if you want to use cplay exclusively.

  11. Dawnrazor
    Thanks Darin

    Yeah its a long story but i have the windows audio service turned off or removed. So it would be a pain to get things going without asio.

    Thanks and fantastic idea!!
  12. johnn29
    Hi Darin,

    I've recently been using Windows Sonic 7.1 in the latest Windows Creator Update - can you comment on how Out of your Head compares to that? Does it use different tech? What about the Dolby Atmos?

    I've demo'd it and I'm very impressed at the effect. I ran a 7.1 test tone and unlike windows sonic which locates the front speakers at a right angle the OOYH locates them exactly as expected. But I'd just like to know a bit more about how it compares. I'm using a DT990.

    Also do the latest Android API's help bring it to that platform?

    It's a shame there's no software based decoding of Dolby Atmos on PC's. You could then implement the height channels too
  13. darinf
    Hi @johnn29 ,
    Thanks for your post.
    While Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos in Windows Creators are meant to achieve similar goals to Out Of Your Head, they are different technology. The main difference is that Out Of Your Head is based on actual measurements of real speakers and rooms. That's the biggest difference between Out Of Your Head and just about all other virtual surroound technology out there. I think that's why you can not only hear good localization of the virtual speakers but also have enough accuracy to be able to tell what kind of speakers you are hearing and the acoustics of the room the speakers were measured in.

    But the best part is that anyone can download the Out Of Your Head trial from our website and compare it for themselves. Just make sure Sonic or Atmos are disabled when Out Of Your Head is running. Have both enabled will yield bad results!

    We are still investigating the latest Android API's, but are not sure if that's going to help us.

  14. jaakkopasanen
    Hey Darin,

    I have been trying out OOYH for couple of days now and I gotta say it's very potential. I found couple of presets that work fairly well. Acoustic Zen and Magico Q3 offer quite good soundstage for music and PBN is very good. With PBN the sounds come from a lot further away in front of me compared to other presets. However I get big colorations to the sound signatures, many of the presets have almost no sub-bass and even mid-bass might be significantly reduced. For example the gamer preset have -10dB to -20dB for the bass and below 46Hz I get nothing on my Hifiman HE-400S. I don't think the reason for these colorations and bass reductions could be the algorithm or microphones because people with personal measurements have very hard time distinguishing between speakers and OOYH. Also it cannot possibly be the systems, or what kind of 7.1 system cannot produce frequencies below 46Hz. Then some presets make the sub-bass very weird, as if they are shifting energy from very low frequencies to higher. Listening to Trentemøller - Chameleon with certain presets I get no sub-bass rumble but all the sounds that are in the sub-bass region in that song are very well audible. I guess it must be that HRTF makes that much of a difference even for bass, right?

    Surround material is a lot easier for OOYH (or rather my brain). Many presets get speakers in very clear and sharp locations in surround while failing miserably with stereo. For example Mi Casa Studio moves almost all the sounds behind my right ear when listening to stereo but renders all speakers very clearly and in correct height when playing surround source material. It's quite interesting to find that stereo vs surround makes that big difference. With surround even gamer preset can place the sounds fairly accurately around me although not tremendously far. Acoustic zen has about the same localisation but doesn't miss bass. PBN is very far but has the same bass issues as gamer preset. This makes my decision difficult, should I pay for the full licence to get better bass with Acoustic Zen or better localisation with PBN, or should I just cheap out and get the gamer version. Only if I could get spatials of PBN and bass of Acoustic Zen, I would by the full licence in a heartbeat.

    I really think this is the future of audio and I think every gamer should be at least conscious of OOYH, whether they find gamer preset matching or not is another story. I think it would really help people (and sales) if there were a lot of people measured for the gamer preset. Speaker virtualization is the main value proposition of this software after all and if that doesn't work because HRTF doesn't match it's not very useful. Gaming market is so much bigger than audiophile market that you could be making a lot of more money focusing on gamers rather than audiophiles.

    I'm thinking of organizing a measurement session in Finland. There's couple of movie mixing studios in Helsinki that might be willing to rent their mixing room for an hour or two. Gather a few people to be measured at the same time and studio rent costs would be very manageable. I just need to find somebody with Realizer A8 here in Finland. It would be so much more convenient if Fong audio had partners all over the globe who would offer measurements as a service. Studios could be good candidates since they shouldn't have a lot of commercial reasons not to allow people there getting measurements, unlike Hifi shops do have. Something you should maybe consider...

    Thanks for awesome software but please do sell it more. It pains my heart that more people don't know about this.

    By the way people have been asking about decoding Dolby Atmos. I can confirm that MPC-HC can decode Atmos and works really well with OOYH. Tested with Dobly Atmos test track here.
    Nec3 likes this.
  15. Nec3
    The OOYH 7.1 gaming preset is very good. However for OOYH to succeed in the gaming market, these have to be ready as a plug and play option. So far one of the big issues I have is manually having to set the driver to 32bit/48khz and 7.1 surround, if not, I'm greeted unpleasant screeching noises (on windows 10). OOYH also have to be available offline, formatting my harddrive with my operating system in it means that I have to request Darin Fong to send me another activation code. And what happens if Darin Fong disappears from the face of the internet (knock on wood), while somehow my harddrive becomes corrupted? This is a very big issue as recent Nvidia drivers taken from Geforce Experience are known to corrupt boot drivers, and AMD's recent Meltdown patches from Microsoft brick old computers.

    TL;DR OOYH is a spectacular product, but isn't reliable enough for the average gamer.
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