Ostry Kc09 Vs it01 Vs fh1 Vs tk13

  1. Nabillion_786
    Hi,I need serious help. Im looking for an upgrade over my rock jaw Alfa genus V2. My preferred signature is alot of bass with thick mids, not vshaped and relaxed treble. I also have dunu titan 3 but don't like it due too a very thin midrange. Is the kc09 the answer or any other recommendations? Thanks
     
  2. PaganDL
    Hi Nabillion_786,

    IT 01 will do nicely for you as its value is well above its price point, it is my most used daily.

    The KC 09 is also good though not as impactful bass response wise as IT 01 but mids are full & well bodied.
    Personally, I can't enjoy the KC 09 due to having ear anatomy which is unsuitable for the shape and weight.
    If you're interested in a KC 09 which has only been slightly used to test if it works, PM me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
    Nabillion_786 and tarhana like this.
  3. Nabillion_786
    Thanks a lot for the reply, Just realized your reply now. Could you please do a comparison between the kc09 and it01?because all I have to do is pay the custom fees and just collect my kc09 from the local post office. However, I'm not quite sure if I should since I'm after alot of bass with especially thick, meaty mids that have good vocals.
     
  4. PaganDL
    Hi Nabillion_786,

    No problem, been away from Headfi myself for a bit due to life.

    There is no fair comparison between the KC09 & the IT 01 but based on your preferences, IT 01 wins out every time across the range significantly.
    Also, there is more to play with in sound tuning with IT 01 if you cable roll whether you believe in it or not.
    While basic sound signature remains largely unchanged & stock cable is very good, different cables do change the tuning.
    For example, the cable I'm using for the IT 01 is worth slightly more retail than the IT 01 (ridiculous most certainly but at least I'm not crazy enough to get cables which are in the high hundreds, let alone thousands but I digress), the point is while it doesn't 'quieten' the IT 01 sound, at least to my ears subjectively, it refines the sound, bringing it up a few levels & evens out the base response even more so in real bass heavy tracks, it doesn't overpower all the other frequencies adding a nice tone control.

    Hope this makes sense & helps.
    As I mentioned, personally, KC 09 doesn't fit me well which is a minor pain literally as vocals are its strong suit, after all, it is essentially a midrange hearing aid for very little money but once again, doesn't have the fit for me personally.
     
  5. Nabillion_786
    First of all thanks for the detailed response, I really appreciate your help. I've been having a bad time with the kc09 as I originally got them from massdrop, and faced really bad customer service Initially. I ordered my ostrys, then shortly after decided to change it for an it01 but massdrop didn't reply which resulted in me having to wait and eventually just paying for the custom fees which I was unaware of. Thereafter, a nice lady took over and provided exceptional customer service, by giving me a full refund whilst letting me keep my ostrys, I'm absolutely buzzing now!

    Regarding the ostrys sound, I was disappointed tbh, because for some reason the sound to my ears sounded lifeless with not much detail, less separation and also at times a bit muddy. However, I loved the the thickness of the mids but the vocals just felt too distant from the soundstage. Today I'm receiving both, the fh1 and it01, and will be doing a thorough a/b/c testing.
     
  6. PaganDL
    Hi Nabillion_786,

    No problem, always happy to help.

    I understand your pain, MD can be a serious one, often for no reason.

    Regarding KC 09 sound, this is sometimes the problem with a lot of IEMs nowadays especially, not just this particular one, it is mainly source dependant & how good the quality is, suggest at least CD quality, which means 320 kpbhs.
    I would be interested to know what you're using as a source, aside from just the quality & what kind of music &/or sound you are listening to as well as any settings you may have as extra (EQ, volume level, etc).
    I will agree separation could be a little better on the KC 09 but it is more than adequate for the cost though the best personally & subjectively I find in that price range is still the IT 01.
    If it sounds muddy, I would suggest checking your source quality as in my experience 'muddiness' tends to be from poorly recorded sources.

    Also, as a final note, if you can get something like the Presonus HP 4, I find for the value, it is a great head amp for a, b, c, d testing.

    Let me know how you go, be interested to hear what you find.
     
  7. Nabillion_786
    I'm so sorry never realised that you replied. I've been having a really difficult time with these iems as I just can't get the sound I'm after. Now I have the it01s but again it just doesn't sound right for what I mostly use my iems for. I watch a lot of YouTube videos, animes and really want vocals and the overall feel to be up close like I'm there. Is the problem because the it01s soundstage is wide or is it the fact that the midrange feels thin and a bit recessed? What do you recommend for me as your help is really appreciated. Btw I use my zte axon 7 which is rated quite well
     
  8. PaganDL
    Hi Nabillion_786,

    No problem, Headfi notifications aren't always timely...

    Aside from having no experience with your phone, I have experience in using Dolby Atmos which I believe your phone has built in as its main codec.
    Two things I would suggest first is if possible, they are as follows :

    First step :
    Find a way to turn Dolby Atmos off on your phone as Youtube is not optimised in any way to play anything Dolby Atmos related unless the actual video supports it which is highly unlikely given Youtube bandwith allocations, they still have some issues with 1080, let alone 4k & in some cases, Dolby Atmos uses a ridiculous amount bandwith and processing wise on its own, never mind the actual hardware used needed to run it, not your phone in this case as it only has codec implementation, not hardware.

    Second Step :
    Don't watch Youtube or anime on your phone.

    If you have a pc or mac with a good output source, eg, computer usb interface, eg Lexicon Alpha, any Focusrite Scarlett series, you should be more than fine then.
    Personally, I would not watch online media on your phone as that's not what most phones are not meant for even though most companies will try to make you believe it is so through their marketing but that's just my humble opinion.

    As a final note, which reiterates my earlier points, make sure you have a good source as staging generally can't be wide with a thin midrange &/or recessed, these tend to contradict each other on the sound spectrum.
    As long as your source is minimum CD quality, 320 kbps, there should be no problems.
    I would also suggest listening to other media, not just Youtube or anime as well.

    Just out of curiosity, what do you watch on Youtube?
     
  9. Nabillion_786
    Thanks ever so much, your an amazing person with all this extremely helpful information. I still have a couple of weeks until I can return these back and have looked at 2 more options. First being the musicmaker ninetails which has been hyped up alot recently, and the simgot en700 pro. I'm not sure if you could help to see if these may suit me? My preferred sound signature is more than average bass, thick but detailed vocals which are presented more forward, and highs which aren't too dark. Id prefer bright as possible but I know that I would need to make a trade off somewhere but not too dark would be nice. As you can probably see, this is a tuning more for movie watchers which im looking for urgently and i have a budget upto £120.

    Regarding Dolby, I absolutely love it and it turns my phone into an audio machine. For some reason i can hear dolby always working for me, even on youtube, However, I never use it with my earphones as it makes the sound more congested and worse imho. Also, I consume alot of media and would prefer to lie in bed and watch stuff.

    Just a little while ago I tried something and it immediately changed the it01 to my preferred signature. I taped all the vents and it gave me a more closer and warm sound which I like but it sounded considerably more bloated and just lost its details. Do you have any more suggestions please?
     
  10. Nabillion_786
    Also this is an idea of what I watch:

    https://www.watchcartoononline.com/anime/code-geass-lelouch-of-the-rebellion

    Soo many people on other threads think I'm crazy paying loads of money just for media consumption. But imho I think it makes the experience a whole alot better for me compared to a standard earphone. I also watch alot of sports and anime, it's not only YouTube and movies.
     
  11. PaganDL
    Hi Nabillion_786,

    As said, happy to help, that's what most of the people are here for...

    Anyway, yes, the whole taping vents thing is not a new 'pesudo mod' so if it works for you then it works though as you said, there are bloating issues which has to do with air pressure build up, etc which is why it's not recommended and not good for your health...

    As already stated & I noticed on the IT 01 thread, don't use the Atmos if you don't have to as it overbloats things, especially anything not optimised for Dolby which is basically everything, not to mention in most cases, it also changes the volume levels, usually 10+ db more than it should be.
    Also as stated, Youtube and Anime aren't optimised for Dolby Atmos so you're doing yourself more harm than good, in my humble opinion, on what good sound is.
    I did mention previously it would be helpful to know what you watch on Youtube as then I have an idea how bad the stuff you're listening to is.

    If you are bent on using Atmos for personal listening, or need more bass, I suggest getting a portable speaker with good bass response, IK Multimedia iLoud Montiors, any UE Boom speaker, etc instead of in ears.

    I have the Singot EN 700 Pro, it is very nice & more reference style tuning out of the box than IT 01.
    Since you already have minior issues with having a quality source, potentially the terrible side of Youtube, etc, this will make it worse as EN 700 Pro will reveal very clearly any flaws any audio has, especially if you cable roll.

    By the way, before I forget, I would suggest looking into cable rolling if you want to tune the IT 01 or any other IEM for that matter.
    As a side note, this does not change the base sound signature, only tunes it.

    Some suggestions are as follows in no particular order :

    iBasso CB 12s/13s (More balance, better staging, better clarity)
    Penon OS 849 (Gives IT 01 clearest reference style voice but slightly hard on high frequencies which can be fatiguing if source contains lots of high frequencies or if you are sensitive to high frequency)
    Penon GS 849 (I use this with the IT 01 the most, reference style tuning with tone control, bass still hits hard as it should but not basshead fatiguing levels for no reason)
    Null Audio Arete MKIII (Super clear with no fatigue, good bass response & tone control)

    Let me know how you go.
     
  12. PaganDL
    Hi Nabillion_786,

    Your anime site isn't know for having the best audio quality & also has limited bandwith issues, etc so I would suggest looking at something else there.

    Your other media references would be helpful as well but as said, maybe get a better source aside from your phone.
     
  13. Nabillion_786
    Sorry for not being clear, but what I was trying to say is that I really love Dolby and never use it with my earphones. I always switch it off as it makes everything bloated. I only turn on Dolby after I plug out my earphones so that definitely has never been the issue. Dolby (without earhones plugged in) seems to work really well for me as a phone speaker at all times.

    These cables seem really interesting but it maybe a bit expensive when adding the total costs of the earphone and the cable. Tbh, most of the things I watch are from that site I gave you, on YouTube I watch football highlights and just a couple of other channels. Here's some more:



    https://www.watchcartoononline.com/dragon-ball-super-episode-65-english-dubbed

    Go towards the end, alot of vocals sound a bit recessed behind the instruments for me.

    I do understand that these aren't really high quality sources that I've sent you but I can confirm that every earphone still makes a difference to my ears. I just wanted an earphone that will suit towards these things that I watch. Could you also suggest me a good source to buy, in which I can still watch my videos in bed with earphones?

    Lastly, It would be very helpful if you can compare the it01 to the simgot. Do you personally feel it will suit my sound signature better and how do the vocals compare?
     
  14. PaganDL
    Hi Nabillion_786,

    Cable rolling can be at least pricey so I understand your concern & the cables I suggested are not the ridiculously overpriced ones.
    At any rate, whatever the general concensus is out there, the riduclously overpriced ones are more than hard to justify especially without demos.
    I would suggest it is something to consider if you're interested in fine tuning any IEMs at a later time, you don't have to get many at once, just get one to try then you can choose to go from there or not.
    Also, depending on what IEMs you end up with, depending on connector type, you can just use that one for the IEMs you feel works for you, most people do it this way, very few people get more than two of the same cable unless they have different connectors or money to burn (just in case you're wondering I don't have money to burn & try to make careful choices as possible).

    The problem with a lot of anime, using this as an example, not just source wise but aside from the compression & bandwith already eluded to, is the quality overall isn't that great as it's mainly not meant to be anything with real fidelity though that may be subjective as well as many don't really understand what that word means in terms of sound, let alone how it applies but I digress...

    So in terms of earphones &/or IEMs, you may have to find something with a more neutral &/or balanced tuning which depending on your budget, may or may not be a challenge as I would usually recommend demos first if possible.

    Two which come to mind which I have & you maybe able to get demos for are as follows :

    Audio Technica E70 (This was my daily for 2+ years & is now on well deserved rest but will go back on weekly rotation shortly)
    Mackie MP 240 (I only got this recently as I was curious what they could do)

    Both are very good triple drivers which can be found at any good pro shop at far better price points than regular retail.
    In the pro audio world, they are used for sound monitoring & with either, you should get an accurate sound represensation, source dependant.
    Aside from being cheaper, the MP 240 is less refined in sound compared to the E 70 & only has a Balanced Armature for the high frequency instead of the full range triple BA in the E 70 so it's up to you what you feel is in your budget.
    It's hard to go wrong whichever you choose.
    I am partial to triple drivers & I have quite a few already as I find them the most balanced in sound.

    Sadly, the way of good portable video players has pretty much been killed by Apple & Amazon so for portable video, nothing really exists any more which is worth it.
    The only alternative I suggest looking into though once again where your phone shouldn't be the source but a PC, Mac or NAS drive is a small projector, either from NEC or there is a baby projector from Benq which your phone should be able to hook up to but don't quote me on that.

    IT 01 vs EN 700 Pro

    IT 01
    More impact overall across frequency range
    Instinctive excitement
    Good mid & sub bass response
    Scales well

    EN 700 Pro
    Reference style tuning with good bass extension
    Scales well

    I leave the choice up to you but those are my impressions, personally you can't go wrong with either.
     
  15. Nabillion_786
    Thanks, this was extremely descriptive and beneficial. In the future I will definitely look Into cable rolling as this could potentially turn a great iem into something legendary as I just perceived from what you stated. I need to first find the right iem for me, then I will eventually buy one of the ones you've suggested as I can't quite stretch above £120 yet. Consequently, the other 2 iems you've mentioned, I can't buy them because of their higher price or demo them as I live in the UK and in my area I'm pretty certain there is no shops for demoing earphones, which is absolutely annoying. So I have to rely on Amazon or someone else's experiences.

    A lot of people have also stated the fact that I don't need high end fidelity for what I watch. However, I can confirm that I've tried soo many earphones in the sub 100 category and it seemed to my ears that the more expensive ones performed alot better then the more budget ones. For example, if I compare my it01s to the rock jaw Alfa genus v2, final audio e3000, ath e40 (I really dislike this one as it sounds too dark and boring for me) and general Samsung earphones, it absolutely destroys them and sounds technically much better. I can hear more details, better separation, clarity and a much wider soundstage even on those anime videos I watch. However, it just doesn't do well for vocals for me, as I found the fh1s, to have more forward, thicker and life-like voice representation which I love in iems. The fh1s would have been perfect for me, but the problem is that they also sound a bit boring for me because of the really soft highs. I just want good bass, with good, forward vocal performance and not really weak highs that sound boring. Honestly speaking, my dream iem would be the it01s with better vocal performance.

    Could you please confirm if the simgot has thicker and more forward vocals compared to the it01? Also, how do the bass compare?
     

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