Orthodynamic Roundup
Aug 8, 2021 at 9:44 AM Post #26,551 of 26,678

khbaur330162

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I think with a centre-pinched ortho, the 'bass lens' concept probably won't work as well as a more common fully unimpeded type planar.

When you consider that over 70% of the diaphragm is already impeded by the magnets, its reasonable to conclude that much of the bass tuning is already taken care of by the size and frequency of the hole patterns, as they behave almost like a series of 'ports'.

You might get more interesting results playing around with different ear pads, like sony XB pads, pleather pads with fabric interiors, etc etc.
Just some ideas.
Hrm. I do think RP-18's were more detailed, but center-pinched ortho still so good, imo. Do you mean strictly YH-series you think you'd prefer pacman damped or no front damping more than bass lens?

Last night treble and upper mids sounded splashy on a track with bass lens + brainwavz pads, now I remember why I moved away from these pads. Today everything sounds good, though, and I might still prefer bass lens YH-1? Today I was actually thinking "what if brainwavz pads were lined with fabric?" Lemme see if Brainwavz sells anything interesting... Ok, so there's micro suede, micro suede with cooling gel, and perforated faux-leather. If there was perforated genuine leather I might consider, but right now just sort of interested in micro suede. I had a pair of pads that I stitched out of micro suede for my T50RP's back in the day:
P1110422.jpg

I made them angled slightly, I believe, with felt front damping to kill treble. They sounded pretty decent from memory, they were my favorite pads for stock T50RP enclosure at the time. Hrmmm. Do I need more pads? Bass lens sounds so good already. I'm wondering if 80% of the differences that I hear between pacman damped YH-1 and bass lens YH-1 is just soundstaging differences from altered driver-to-ear distance. Bass lens sounds ever so slightly more unimpeded, just effortless. But then pacman damped has a smoothness to it. Maybe it's a false smoothness, though, like a gaussian blur for a photo, it's photoshopped smooth, not reality. Ok bass lens sounds more spacious. ZX1000 pads cramp the sound, I can like hear the pads on immediate swap. Back to bass lens. Bass lens so good? I don't even hear the differences in the size of the stereo image, bass lens sounds just as big as pacman damped to me.

I will do more listening and try to make up my mind on more pads. Right now just kind of enjoying bass lens YH-1. :L3000:
 
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Aug 8, 2021 at 9:57 AM Post #26,552 of 26,678

GREQ

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Hrm. I do think RP-18's were more detailed, but center-pinched ortho still so good, imo. Do you mean strictly YH-series you think you'd prefer pacman damped or no front damping more than bass lens?
I just don't recall any serious benefits from front-damping any center pinched drivers in the past.
It looks like your measurements with front-damping might have some benefits, but also at the cost of some negative results... which is often how it goes with ortho modding. Just gotta find the sweet spot.
 
Aug 8, 2021 at 12:41 PM Post #26,553 of 26,678

khbaur330162

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I just don't recall any serious benefits from front-damping any center pinched drivers in the past.
It looks like your measurements with front-damping might have some benefits, but also at the cost of some negative results... which is often how it goes with ortho modding. Just gotta find the sweet spot.
Hrm, maybe you're right @GREQ and I was getting side tracked a little. Stopped taking measurements for a second and just listened. Went back to ZX1000 pads with no front damping: sounds great. Something about the bass lens with brainwavz pads, though, there's still something there, imo. Ok, removed bass lens, not much difference, at least on this track. Cymbals in that Halo OST just a little much with Brainwavz pads, but I really really like these pads again on the YH-1. Really good, spacious and clear, exciting treble, and bass is probably best of the bunch.
Variances 1.jpg

I like how Pacman has nice gently sloping treble from 6-15kHz. I just tried pacman damping on brainwavz pads because they need the tiniest amount of treble absorption, and it did work, but something was off. Went back to bass lens. I think Brainwavz sheepskin and bass lens is actually a good combo. Not perfect, but good.

... Just let my father listen to bass lens + brainwavz YH-1's versus no front damping ZX1000 pads YH-1. He had the same exact impressions as me. Bass lens sounds like you're there, literally at the venue listening to a live performance. ZX1000 pads sound like a recording. Those were the words that entered my head when I put them on as well, "This sounds like a recording."

Will have to do more testing. Maybe those micro suede pads aren't looking so bad now. Anybody can comment on this cooling gel? SQ of it? Good for bass? It's a $10 difference between micro suede and micro suede with cooling gel and my ears don't get hot, I just wanna know how they sound.
 
Aug 9, 2021 at 5:25 PM Post #26,554 of 26,678

khbaur330162

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Hrm. Yeah, I guess the bass lens doesn't do much. I've removed all front damping currently on both YH-1's and the YH-100's, all sounds good. Treble can be a bit much at times, but I really like the tuning of everything. I got really good measurements with the flat pads. Like really good, imo. Check out the YH-1 with Brainwavz Flat pads. I believe I posted this iteration before but my headphone placement was off so bass suffered. This is without a belt or any tricks, just plopped the headphones onto the measurement rig and found good placement. I really really like YH-100's with handstitched pads, but switching to these YH-1's and they almost sound more natural.
-Edit- ok I did already post a similar graph to this versus YH-100. Here is the graph I was showing you versus the bass lens version.
Bass Lens 2.jpg

Same thing, basically, no need for it, imo.

I bought the micro suede pads w/o cooling gel, only memory foam. They are same dimensions as the flat pads used for this measurement, just different material, afaik.
 

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Aug 9, 2021 at 7:26 PM Post #26,555 of 26,678

Philimon

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TH500RP mod17.jpg

Currently, concerning treble dip + 8-10kHz bump. More damping front side of driver leads to more bass but more closed tunnel pressurized sound. Unpleasant bass with less impact/speed of THX00 so don't think bass extension is something I'm going to continue to search for, the small midbass bump is good compromise. Need to see treble dip come up - perhaps thats a job for different pads. Will try Hifiman focus-a.

Felt sudden urge to fix TH500RP because I broke another headphone: Fostex T30. While soldering wiring to driver a drop of solder fell onto the membrane. This was after finishing process of installing into a Hifiman enclosure... @dBel84 is going to have a look an hold onto permanently because it's not going to be an easy fix.

RP18 kapton should arrive tomorrow. Is the RP18 kapton better than Fostex T30? FWIR seems like mylar membranes (T30) have higher tensions and are more detailed and dynamic (?). And kapton's are thicker membrane with lower tension which produce more bass (?). Do kapton's have better distortion or ringing characteristics? I am trying to minimize loss of T30 by understanding if RP18 is better in bass volume and distortion and ringing. @BucketInABucket 's RP18 kapton arrives at it's new home tomorrow. :>

edit: TH500RP a little fatiguing. Bass pressure (?). Going to try damping more front and back of driver to flatten midbass. We’ll see if that makes the pressurization effect better or worse. Otherwise will have to go other way and undamp front of baffle so there is more leakage for air pressure. (?).
 
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Aug 9, 2021 at 9:37 PM Post #26,557 of 26,678

khbaur330162

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I killed a Wharfedale ID1 being too curious. Don't feel too bad. Hopefully salvageable?

Oh and I have no idea if my RP-18's were mylar or kapton so can't comment on difference, or detail level. I will say they sounded a little bass light and detailed, though. Different pads could change things.
 
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Aug 10, 2021 at 5:38 AM Post #26,559 of 26,678

GREQ

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RP18 kapton should arrive tomorrow. Is the RP18 kapton better than Fostex T30? FWIR seems like mylar membranes (T30) have higher tensions and are more detailed and dynamic (?). And kapton's are thicker membrane with lower tension which produce more bass (?). Do kapton's have better distortion or ringing characteristics? I am trying to minimize loss of T30 by understanding if RP18 is better in bass volume and distortion and ringing. @BucketInABucket 's RP18 kapton arrives at it's new home tomorrow. :>
Having modified both Mylar and Kapton RP18 drivers in the same way in both stock shells and transplanted and compared them directly I can share my experience with them.

Inside the stock headphone/enclosure, when using the same mods - Mylars will lean towards a stronger and better treble performance, while Kaptons will lean towards having a better darker, bassier sound... it's very close though, sort of like nitpicking between HD600 and HD650, but not quite the same.

After putting the drivers into modified fully-open back Beyerdynamic shells, they perform MUCH closer to each other, when using the same mods.
Despite this, I still leaned towards modifying the damping for both to show off their natural strengths.
So my Mylar is tuned as neutral as possible - efforts to increase bass volume only ruined the more airy treble that it's more naturally capable of.
The Kapton is tuned more warm/bassy - efforts to increase treble volume only ruined the more textured/layered bass that it's more naturally capable of.

That said, you should still be able to mod them to the point where you can hardly tell them apart. It is possible.

On another note, more related to your T30 news... Kapton is highly heat-resistant so it's likely to survive random molten metal splash tests :wink:
That said, Mylar isn't too bad at heat resistance either.... you might be able to just melt the blob off at the lowest temperature possible and salvage it... of course not before gently nudging it with a toothpick or spudger... it might just slide off. Solder doesn't adhere well to all surfaces.
 
Aug 10, 2021 at 11:43 AM Post #26,561 of 26,678

Max Choiral

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@Philimon isn't it be better to change your focus towards headphones of new era instead of trying to make vintage sound like modern gear? At this stage all the costs and time spent on constant buying & modding would be more or less equal to a pair of decent headphones more suited to your needs.
 
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Aug 10, 2021 at 1:22 PM Post #26,562 of 26,678

Philimon

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@Philimon isn't it be better to change your focus towards headphones of new era instead of trying to make vintage sound like modern gear? At this stage all the costs and time spent on constant buying & modding would be more or less equal to a pair of decent headphones more suited to your needs.
Probably. Im almost done. RP18 is “out for delivery”. Then would like to try another Audeze and the HE6SE.

@GREQ Thanks!
@VanHai The T30 might be able to save myself with very light nudging as recommended by GREQ and dBel84. Apparently they could still be playable anyway. Daft Punk might wear down the solder’s grip…

Still working on TH500RP. Listening last night to bassy electronic musics was enjoyable. I woke up with some tinnitus though. Need to try another configuration to relieve air pressure I think but that certainly will mean less bass. TH500RP has a certain disadvantage for me because I would prefer closer driver to ear distance like with regular t50rp.

And I might need something stronger than Vali2. Pass ACA is on back burner but nearly complete. If still not good match Ill buy an Asgard3 or a THXXXX.
 
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Aug 10, 2021 at 2:58 PM Post #26,563 of 26,678

Philimon

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07C5898B-13B6-4937-9C84-D8517D988A32.jpeg

Swiped at it with a piece of paper. Came off easily. Looks like there is an indent in the membrane but no tear. Hopefully no major effect but I can see how it could. That indent could make that point rigid and prevent proper movement.
 
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