[ford2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif It comes down to income.. 20,000 to a man who has a mid 6 figure income is like 2,000 to the rest of us.. So in those terms, it's not that expensive at all.. But since most people can't relate, it does sound nuts.. I hope he enjoys it.

Tend to disagree,most who buy these types of things are people with spare money,they have paid of there house and debts and now can buy the things that eluded them when they were young.

Take a good look at the people bidding in the mecum auctions,most are 45 +,the only young ones there are usually with there fathers.

 

[Blackmore]

Must be. And I am not one of those who can compare the two, never tried HE90. My point is, why bringing something on the market, which served their duty, again, instead of upgrading something with better sale potential.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm willing to bet many feel the HD800 is a actual down grade compared to the HE90. Maybe there is somthing to this electro stuff.

 

[stang]

$2,000 is a lot of money...especially $2000usd. You guys must have massive salaries...anyways. I just googled $20,700 usd and it comes to about $23,540aud and 1.82099608 million Japanese yen

My mum just spend that on a 2007 model car for god sake

 

[Dinan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Tend to disagree,most who buy these types of things are people with spare money,they have paid of there house and debts and now can buy the things that eluded them when they were young. Take a good look at the people bidding in the mecum auctions,most are 45 +,the only young ones there are usually with there fathers.

Yes, there are plenty of people on this forum and plenty of dear friends that have VERY expensive hifi and max themselves out to get it. Often putting off purchases of new cars, etc, and taking out credit card loans to do so. This is probably most representative of the majority of audiophiles that I know of, even those with reference level rigs.

I also have plenty of friends around the globe buying this stuff that have more than one high-end car, wear $500 shoes on a daily basis, have multiple 5 figure watches, live in very nice homes, collect art, enjoy fine dinning, and vacation on a regular basis. They also buy this stuff.

The interesting thing is that most of the guys I know where the money matters less, often spend more time in the decision making process trying to decide if they should make the purchase. Once they decide, watch out as they will go to great lengths to get what they want and are not afraid to pay dearly for something they perceive to be exclusive.

The more average guy seems to know what he wants, lusts after it, and will buy it the second he can scrape the money together.

 

[lmilhan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif It comes down to income.. 20,000 to a man who has a mid 6 figure income is like 2,000 to the rest of us.. So in those terms, it's not that expensive at all.. But since most people can't relate, it does sound nuts.. I hope he enjoys it.

BINGO!

It's all relative.

Is it crazy to me? Yes, but I don't have so much money that I can whipe my butt with $100 bills.

In the time it took me to type this reply, Bill Gates probably earned enough money to buy 100 sets of that headphone rig at that price. $20,000 is pocket change to a wealthy person.

And I'm not talking about people who live a lifestyle that creates an Illusion of wealth either - IE: Multiple Charge cards maxed out, Multiple Mortgages/HELOCS, multiple car payments on brand new cars, living from one pay check to the next with less than a $50 balance in their checking account, and absolutely ZERO money saved for retirement (In other words, the Average American).

 

[ford2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stang /img/forum/go_quote.gif $2,000 is a lot of money...especially $2000usd. You guys must have massive salaries...anyways. I just googled $20,700 usd and it comes to about $23,540aud and 1.82099608 million Japanese yen My mum just spend that on a 2007 model car for god sake

How much will the car be worth in 10 years.???
How much will the HE90 be worth in 10 years.???

I know which one I would prefer to have.

 

[stang]

the car is better to has coz id rather be able to get to places than get stuck in the middle of the freeway and get killed.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif But you are worth every penny of it right?.. Your company sees value in that.. Just shows how much you are valued as a employee..

Well, thanks... but I'm just an ordinary guy that needs an air bus ride. That's the way I see it. It would be different if they weren't paying full fare, or if it was just a matter of using accumulated air miles to get the ticket. It's just one of those things that I don't "get" apparently because the cost of business class relative to economy is so disproportionate relative to what you get in exchange: a more comfy bus ride, but a ride that takes you to the exact same place. I could sit cross legged in a phone booth for 10 hours if I had to.

I'd never even think about spending that kind of money on a plane ticket if it was coming out of my pocket! Therein lies the problem, IMO. Companies can come up with all sorts of justifications for spending money that the individual decision makers behind the company wouldn't even think about spending out of their own pockets. This gets into the whole area of corporate waste, mismanagement of assets, and the resultant agency costs incurred by shareholders, and this phenomenon is much worse in North America and Europe than it is elsewhere. But I digress...

About the only reason I keep flying business class is to accumulate the additional miles. I've often been tempted to say, "just get an economy ticket for me..." but (I'm being quite honest here), I don't want to insult the CEO or make him think that I think I'm not worthy. If that makes any sense. In other words, at least in certain crowds, the minute you start to act like just an ordinary guy who doesn't have two nickels to rub together, you set yourself up as being seen as a disposable cog in the wheel. If they're all acting like high rollers and want to "impress" you with like treatment, just roll with it. After the fancy dinner at a 5 star restaurant (where you're served tiny portions), you go back to your equally fancy hotel room, get out of your monkey suit and into your shorts and T-shirt and find the nearest Wendy's or BK you can - just to satisfy your hunger!

 

[rds]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... a more comfy bus ride, but a ride that takes you to the exact same place.

Life is also a ride that takes us all to the same place

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, thanks... but I'm just an ordinary guy that needs an air bus ride. That's the way I see it. It would be different if they weren't paying full fare, or if it was just a matter of using accumulated air miles to get the ticket. It's just one of those things that I don't "get" apparently because the cost of business class relative to economy is so disproportionate relative to what you get in exchange: a more comfy bus ride, but a ride that takes you to the exact same place. I could sit cross legged in a phone booth for 10 hours if I had to. I'd never even think about spending that kind of money on a plane ticket if it was coming out of my pocket! Therein lies the problem, IMO. Companies can come up with all sorts of justifications for spending money that the individual decision makers behind the company wouldn't even think about spending out of their own pockets. This gets into the whole area of corporate waste, mismanagement of assets, and the resultant agency costs incurred by shareholders, and this phenomenon is much worse in North America and Europe than it is elsewhere. But I digress... About the only reason I keep flying business class is to accumulate the additional miles. I've often been tempted to say, "just get an economy ticket for me..." but (I'm being quite honest here), I don't want to insult the CEO or make him think that I think I'm not worthy. If that makes any sense. In other words, at least in certain crowds, the minute you start to act like just an ordinary guy who doesn't have two nickels to rub together, you set yourself up as being seen as a disposable cog in the wheel. If they're all acting like high rollers and want to "impress" you with like treatment, just roll with it. After the fancy dinner at a 5 star restaurant (where you're served tiny portions), you go back to your equally fancy hotel room, get out of your monkey suit and into your shorts and T-shirt and find the nearest Wendy's or BK you can - just to satisfy your hunger!

Yeah, my companies monthly electric bill is 16,000. But when BB as a whole is worth more then 500 million, it's like 16 cents.. Which brings up another problem. Waste. We junk out perfectly good tvs that just have cosmetic damage and could be easily fixed. We are forced to break video games with hammers and throw them away, cause we have over stock and didn't sell.. Tons of gaming guides and candy gets trashed by the sheet load. Seldom do we send back to the shipper.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackmore /img/forum/go_quote.gif Must be. And I am not one of those who can compare the two, never tried HE90. My point is, why bringing something on the market, which served their duty, again, instead of upgrading something with better sale potential.

Good argument to make.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, my companies monthly electric bill is 16,000. But when BB as a whole is worth more then 500 million, it's like 16 cents.. Which brings up another problem. Waste. We junk out perfectly good tvs that just have cosmetic damage and could be easily fixed. We are forced to break video games with hammers and throw them away, cause we have over stock and didn't sell.. Tons of gaming guides and candy gets trashed by the sheet load. Seldom do we send back to the shipper.

Ya, that's part of what I was getting at. Waste. I hate to see it, let alone be part of it, but I guess that's just the way of life in America. Go to Cuba if you want to get a glimpse of our future.

BTW, it's easy to see the point being made by some folks here about how it shouldn't be a surprise to see the HE90/HEV90 selling for $20,700 (and that part of this may have been driven by auction fever), given that some people have a whole lot of money and are eager to buy rare things (sometimes just for the sake of it). I don't argue with those points at all, but am somehow still surprised by that selling price.

 

[563]

I love this discussion and how it veered to bigger philosophical issues. To put things into some kind of vague context, just last night, arms full of bags from shopping, I walked by a fellow sitting on the sidewalk shivering in front of the Christmas display at Bloomingdale's - he wasn't aggressively panhandling, or even panhandling at all, just sitting there on the ground shivering and not really even looking at anyone in particular - he was just there. And just before I walked by him, I saw another evidently poor fellow wordlessly stuffing a few dollar bills into this person's gnarled hand and walking away silently - no fanfare, no words, no show, no nada.

It broke my heart and frankly, made me feel like a real Scrooge, as I just walked on by this guy. I went about fifty steps further and all of a sudden, the thought hit me that I should give this guy something too, but my hands were full, and - to be pseudo-philosophical about this - I realized I would have been doing this out of guilt and not out of any genuine or spontaneous empathy, that is, not out of any real goodness in my heart, but to somehow allay my guilt for not having just put down my bags and given him something - or a lot - who knows?

The kicker is that I felt sad more for what I am (or have become) than for him.

Back to more mundane things...Wmc has nailed it again, I hear him 100 percent, although I have to recommend that he eat more healthy after those fancy corporate meals!!! The good/bad news for the taxpayer is that I, as a U.S. Government employee, cannot fly business class on the public's dime. They used to have a 14-hour plus rule where you could if you were flying more than 14 hours (they still allow this for the real higher-ups and, I believe, at the State Department), but they did away with that for the rest of us bureaucrats (although they still allow a one night stopover once you've been flying that long, but who's going to do that when, say, you're en route from NYC to Malaysia via Tokyo?)... That's why I try to be supernice to the flight attendants and the ticket counter folks, since, once in a very blue moon, they'll give me an exit row or - once or twice even - upgrade me to an otherwise empty seat in business. And knowing a thing or two about wine has gotten me samples of what they're serving in first or business class as well. But I digress ...

PS - I really enjoy Zanth's enthusiastic reviews, and I can't wait for the day when he starts up speaker-fi.org! I must be one of the only folks here who loves BOTH the PS1000 and the HD800 - nothing like a little bit of middle age hearing loss to smooth things out, eh?

 

[wavoman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 563 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...It broke my heart and frankly, made me feel like a real Scrooge, as I just walked on by this guy...

The practical and moral implications of giving or not giving to someone begging for money on the streets are subtle and complex.

This is fascinating stuff. Why doesn't Bill Gates give money to people on the street (he has said he plans on giving away 90% of his wealth at minimum)?

Does it do more harm than good? Does it lead to more misery and human suffering?

The answers are not simple. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation take a very interesting approach -- check it out.

I paid way, way less than the eBay price for my Orpheus. But still -- should I have given the money to charity instead? Did I need the Orpehus? Does anyone need it? How can you live with yourself if even one child goes hungry while you listen to headpones that costs as much as even the lowest models discussed here at head-fi? Are they really that much better that PX-100's?

But doesn't this apply to any purchase of anything beyond the most basic? Why should I ever go to a good restaurant? Or any restaurant? Is it evil to even make high-end consumer goods and offer them for sale?

So much philosophy, economics, sociology, etc. has been written about this quandry -- dip in to the discussion, GIYF, and you might end up both feeling better about yourself, and doing some things that can make a real difference that you are perhaps not doing now.

I think this is something every individual has to come to grips with, at least anyone who spends on consumer items that are not strictly needed to survive, which is everyone here, and most everyone else we know.

 

[midoo1990]

i dont think everyone who have say $20000000 will buy this stuff,i think it is psychological thing.for example,my dad has friends who are millioners and can buy anything they want,yet they have a 20 years old tv and living in a small appartment!it is in their nature that they value things and try to keep things minimal,some of them even(and i am not kidding)get a piece of paper and a calculator every single month and calculate their expenses and if they spend more in one month,they starve themselves in the next month to save a few dollars!!!if i have a $20000000,i would buy a nice mercedes car,but i would never buy a $500000 rolls royes,i would buy nice clothes but never get a $10000 shoes,i would get a nice mont blanc watch but never get a $100000 rolex,its just ridiculous for me to accept it physically and psychologically.