optical out... but which one?

[stefan]

Major upgrade is on the horizon: a new quiet PC, a new optical cable and Benchmark DAC1 and so on....

So, putting together the PC, the question is which soundcard to get the best optical out: seems the budget could go between a Chaintech AV710 at $24 to a E-MU 1212m at $199..... but is there anyone who has compared optical outputs here? Is something the 1212m (or similar) going to make a big difference over the AV710? Most comparisons here seem to focus on analogue out, which I don't need (nor do I need analogue or digital in)
thanks for any tips...

 

[Kurt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefan ..... but is there anyone who has compared optical outputs here?

The search function is your friend.

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...h+optical+0404

The last posts in that thread.

 

[Blitzzz]

I use a chaintech AV710 flashed to prodigy... optical out is supposed to be bitperfect in everything except directsound applications (DTS signals come out unmolested using kernel streaming)

 

[stefan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurt The search function is your friend.

yes it is. Thanks.
And it tells me that with a near jitter-immune dac like the benchmark, as long as the output is bit-perfect, it doesn't matter, and at the same time that there are big differences between an AV-710 and a Emu....

 

[dougwx12]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefan there are big differences between an AV-710 and a Emu....

Analog yes, digital no. It's either a bit-perfect digital signal or its not. There is no in-between (jitter excepted).

 

[lan]

Why don't you try both yourself and listen? To me there is a difference in transports and cables with DAC1.Whether it exists or how much of a difference there is, is up to you.

 

[stefan]

No, we're talking strictly digital here.
For example, this thread pointed out by Kurt refers to the optical difference between an AV710 and emu -- "lifting the veil and so on".
Then there was a recent comparison between the digital out of a Juli@ and a 1212m. and then there are tonnes of threads on PC audio asylum on differences between the digital outs of a Chaintech, Transit, Edirol, Waveterminal...

And then there's this company that sells modded transits for close to $1k -- all in the name of getting the "best" SPDIF out....

So it seems there are:
the naysayers, and their "bits are bits", "bit perfect" is "bit perfect" and "get a chaintech for $24".
..and those who will spend to $1000 to do the same thing, apparently better.....

 

[stefan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan Why don't you try both yourself and listen?

The right answer, and I'd love to.
Sadly, I don't live in the US, or any other country in the world where there are decent shops that sell things like soundcards and so on: about once I year I travel to the "west" (or "east") and do my shopping.... which kind of rules out comparisons before I buy....

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan To me there is a difference in transports and cables with DAC1.Whether it exists or how much of a difference there is, is up to you.

...which means I'd be interested in hearing what works for you. My geographic location means using my own ears and so on is a bit tricky....

 

[lan]

Yes I'm talking only digital here. I'm part of the camp that says it matters. But consider this, the DAC1 is somewhat limiting IMO. Imagine a water filter. What if the water is purer than the filter? There's a point where the incoming signal is better than what the DAC1 can filter. In that case, you won't be gaining but losing performance. In my perception, there is a sonic characteristic of DAC1 which is like a haze in the upper frequencies. That's what it imprints.

So although you could enhance your digital signal coming in, the benefits are somewhat reduced. I would recommend modding the DAC1. It costs more money but yields a larger difference.

 

[dougwx12]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan Why don't you try both yourself and listen? To me there is a difference in transports and cables with DAC1.Whether it exists or how much of a difference there is, is up to you.

Hey, you hear what you hear. Whatever floats your boat.

From a technology perspective, I'm at a loss, especially with a re-clocking DAC being used. It should be the same series of 0's and 1's. Did you do any tests to verify that the same bitstreams were being sent from the soundcards (like DTS to a receiver)? Unless the card(s) are modifying the data somehow, I don't get it.

Hmm, I wonder if the wife will approve the purchase of a DAC1 for some "tests".

 

[stefan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan ....so although you could enhance your digital signal coming in, the benefits are somewhat reduced. I would recommend modding the DAC1. It costs more money but yields a larger difference.

Getting a modded DAC1 is not really an option price-wise at the moment. What digital out did you find worked the best with a stock DAC1?

 

[lan]

Ah ok , I didn't read your last message since I was writing mine at the same time. Yeah that sucks if you can't audition anything.

If you have a budget for DAC1 and 1212m and are sure to get the DAC1, I'd suggest using 0404, glass toslink, and some power conditioner. 0404 is not that much worst than 1212m, and is half the price. The extra money can be used on a power conditioner which could help your source out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougwx12 From a technology perspective, I'm at a loss, especially with a re-clocking DAC being used. It should be the same series of 0's and 1's. Did you do any tests to verify that the same bitstreams were being sent from the soundcards (like DTS to a receiver)?

0 10
01 0
0 1 0

Those are not the same eventhough they are the same 0's and 1's. The difference is all in the timing. My configuration didn't t change so it's the same signal. All I do is select which card to output from.

 

[dougwx12]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan 0 10 01 0 0 1 0

That'd be jitter, right? Forgive me if this is a silly question, but isn't that *exactly* what the re-clocking in the DAC1 is supposed to get rid of? And both cards were using the same output mode (if it was XP) ?

 

[stefan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan Yeah that sucks if you can't audition anything.

Indeed.
My advice to you: don't live in the "axis of evil" -- they only have soundblaster cards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan If you have a budget for DAC1 and 1212m and are sure to get the DAC1, I'd suggest using 0404, glass toslink, and some power conditioner. 0404 is not that much worst than 1212m, and is half the price. The extra money can be used on a power conditioner which could help your source out.

that's the way I'll probably be headed.
You mean a power conditioner for the DAC1 or the PC?

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougwx12 That'd be jitter, right? Forgive me if this is a silly question, but isn't that *exactly* what the re-clocking in the DAC1 is supposed to get rid of? And both cards were using the same output mode (if it was XP) ?

It doesn't get rid of it but attenuates it so there's still something that gets through. The DAC1 has jitter of it's own which it imprints in the sound. That can be a bottleneck.

All cards I've tried used bitperfect output.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefan You mean a power conditioner for the DAC1 or the PC?

For the DAC1.