Oppo HA-1 Impressions Thread
Aug 9, 2016 at 6:46 AM Post #4,531 of 5,327

Dickies

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  Oh, I thought crossfeed was supposed to emulate soundstage?  But yeah it does seperate very well.  Which is why I like it with my speakers.  But I dunno, maybe it was just the first impression of the HD700 that made me feel differently.  The M-Stage does have a harder thud type bass to it and it pushes the mids more forward.  Maybe that's just what I'm hearing.

 
Sometimes when listening to headphones you might notice sounds you're supposed to be hearing at 12 o'clock to you you might be hearing at 11 and 1, at the same time you're getting much more of a sense or 4 and 8 o'clock than you would vs speakers, as I understand it that is what crossfeed aims to rectify I thought the hd700 was one of those headphones
now if this was happening to with a pair of speakers you'd just turn you speakers in towards each other a touch, that is how a good crossfeed should work, and is why lots of headphones angle drivers I believe.

Along with my ha-1 I have an audio-gd nfb27h and I think that has more bass impact than the ha-1, I felt the 700's made up for that with the ha-1 just seems out tastes differ there, and the combination of the ha-1 sometimes plastic sounds and the hd700's love for burying singers and way over hyping cymbals and hihats did get to me in the end
 
Aug 9, 2016 at 3:19 PM Post #4,532 of 5,327

polecrab

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Read this thread closely. Has some REW files you can also download to see what I learned. My alignment was already decent, but I do like how the image and sub blend now; thanks to jtalden and markus.

I would do the excess group delay method or the impulse aligning method.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/146170-issue-timing-reference-loop-back-xmc-1-sub-time-alignment.html#/topics/146170?_k=6a3bym


Thanks etc6849, but looks like they're talking about using an Emo HT processor to apply correction. I had thought you were using just the HA-1 to time align your mains and subs and was wondering how this was possible without an additional piece of hardware.
 
Aug 9, 2016 at 4:26 PM Post #4,534 of 5,327

craftyhack

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Thanks etc6849, but looks like they're talking about using an Emo HT processor to apply correction. I had thought you were using just the HA-1 to time align your mains and subs and was wondering how this was possible without an additional piece of hardware.

I don't think it is possible with no additional hardware, but depending on which outputs you are using, it may be inexpensive to add.  I was thinking of incorporating a studio monitor controller (to run more than one set of monitors is my main thing), and I have seen controllers add some DSP before, but I found this which is promising, if someone has continued with this idea to do more full blown correction via a monitor controller.  I don't know how transparent such a device would be, perhaps doing more harm than good, still searching.
 
http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/vintage/vintage-recording-broadcast/msc1
 
There are software/hardware solutions as well, but then things are getting complicated and expensive :).
 
Aug 9, 2016 at 4:39 PM Post #4,535 of 5,327

polecrab

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That's what I've always thought. If you're already committed to the HA-1 and a sub, there doesn't seem to be way to do room correction without some redundancy or doing D->A conversions twice, etc. It's probably just more efficient to base your system around a miniDSP or Lyngdorf or comparable unit.
 
Aug 9, 2016 at 4:47 PM Post #4,536 of 5,327

craftyhack

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That's what I've always thought. If you're already committed to the HA-1 and a sub, there doesn't seem to be way to do room correction without some redundancy or doing D->A conversions twice, etc. It's probably just more efficient to base your system around a miniDSP or Lyngdorf or comparable unit.

After more research, I am coming to the same conclusion.  While some solutions offer adjustments in the analog domain, I guess there isn't anything capable of applying anything more complex.  I did find Audessey XT32 DAW plugins that came with everything needed to measure for and apply ARC, but as you said in the digital domain, but then it is in digital domain (and we need to be using a DAW :)).  Yeah, a whole lot easier just to use something other than the HA-1.  Oh well...
 
Aug 10, 2016 at 11:06 AM Post #4,537 of 5,327

etc6849

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You can do similar adjustments using the same graphs jtaldon and I are talking about in that thread if your sub has controls.  However, your sub MUST have speaker in and speaker out connections and you should have your speakers hooked to these.
 
For example, time delay on an AVR is equivalent to the Phase knob on your sub.  Some subs have just a 180 degree switch.  This made a difference for me in time aligning my subs even though my polarity was correct!  I also changed the crossover slope of my subs in that thread, but most subwoofers don't let you adjust the octaves/dB slope.  Note that sometimes you need to subtract from your sub's time delay; in this case you would have to try putting the subs closer to the listening position.  The phase knob isn't psychic so it can only add delay to the subwoofer's output.  
 
To be honest, this is a little complicated the first couple times you do it.  I would start by doing some baseline measurements and studying them.  Even if I had no phase knob, I would still experiment and try swapping sub polarity and moving the sub closer or farther from the listening position as needed.
 
One thing to think about is if you want room correction with the Oppo HA-1 is to use the Dirac software (stereo version).  If your sub(s) have speaker in/out connections it is worth using those as Dirac would do a decent job time aligning everything for you.  This is because the stereo signal would be processed by the Dirac software then go through the sub, then to your loud speaker.  Yes it will have to do extra processing, and you would/should turn it off when using headphones.  Definitely the Dirac room correction is for speakers only.  Dirac does a wonderful job fixing impulse response issues, something that can't be fixed by traditional EQ (but can be fixed via room treatments too which is a passive option to consider).
 
There is also the miniDSP option for bass management, but it would mean putting another device in your signal path.  Honestly, getting good bass requires at least two matching subs of decent quality.  I would really spend my money and time on that and doing measurements with REW before ever trying room correction.  Also, plenty of other options such as bass traps and absorption on the walls, outboard analog crossovers placed between your HA-1 and amp, etc...  
 
I understand most audiophiles are purist and against room correction, but the Dirac software will improve the imaging of your speakers and will likely improve the time alignment.
 
Quote:
Thanks etc6849, but looks like they're talking about using an Emo HT processor to apply correction. I had thought you were using just the HA-1 to time align your mains and subs and was wondering how this was possible without an additional piece of hardware.

 
Aug 10, 2016 at 11:20 AM Post #4,538 of 5,327

polecrab

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You can do similar adjustments using the same graphs jtaldon and I are talking about in that thread if your sub has controls.

Yes, I was planning to do this, use measurements from REW to guide me in adjusting my speaker controls. However, this has limitations in how much you can correct for group delay. For example, my understanding is that due to the low pass filters and other factors in the sub, the sub output will generally be delayed compared to the mains, so if you're only using sub controls, there's no way to really correct for this without positioning the sub much closer to the listening position. Once you position the sub so that its output reaches you before the mains, then you can use the phase controls to delay the sub so that it's not only in phase but also impulse-aligned with the mains. Because of this, I had to place my sub in a really awkward location along the side wall near the listening position with really long RCA cables going to it. I would have rather put the sub along the front wall behind the mains, but then it would have been impossible to have my sub signal in time with my mains without some additional processing hardware. That's why I was hoping you had figured out a way to do this just using REW with the HA-1.
 
Aug 10, 2016 at 11:51 AM Post #4,539 of 5,327

etc6849

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Exactly, your understanding is 100% correct unless you delay  the signal going to your main speakers your sub will always be closer.
 
If you've thought about time aligning your loudspeaker's tweeter and woofer with a speaker crossover (maybe a used Electrovoice DX-38) and then bi-amping, there are improvements to gain in doing this and then you could use the DX-38 to add a delay to both the tweeter and woofer.  Of course this will complicate your setup even more requiring double the number of amps.  This really will help clean up inter-modulation distortion as the frequencies going to each amp are limited, provides more headroom, etc...
 
You could also just use a DX-38 or a similar processor to crossover your mains and sub; it can time delay the signal going to the speaker's amp and/or sub separately.  MiniDSP has cheaper options to do this too.  Would look like Oppo HA-1->DX-38->AMP->Speakers and Oppo HA-1->DX-38->amplified subs.
 
Dirac on your PC or Mac that connects to the HA-1 is a lot easier way to go, but if you really want the best possible clarity from your speakers, I'd also consider active bi-amping in an end all setup and also using Dirac.
 
Quote:
Yes, I was planning to do this, use measurements from REW to guide me in adjusting my speaker controls. However, this has limitations in how much you can correct for group delay. For example, my understanding is that due to the low pass filters and other factors in the sub, the sub output will generally be delayed compared to the mains, so if you're only using sub controls, there's no way to really correct for this without positioning the sub much closer to the listening position. Once you position the sub so that its output reaches you before the mains, then you can use the phase controls to delay the sub so that it's not only in phase but also impulse-aligned with the mains. Because of this, I had to place my sub in a really awkward location along the side wall near the listening position with really long RCA cables going to it. I would have rather put the sub along the front wall behind the mains, but then it would have been impossible to have my sub signal in time with my mains without some additional processing hardware. That's why I was hoping you had figured out a way to do this just using REW with the HA-1.

 
Aug 11, 2016 at 12:12 PM Post #4,540 of 5,327

Liu Junyuan

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Hello,

I am the trying this unit as I am out of town and have access to one for the next couple days. How do I use the HA-1 as simply a DAC outputing a signal into an external headamp I brought along with me? I essentially want to use the DAC portion of the unit only to try with a portable tube amp I brought along.

Would I connect the RCA preouts to the RCA inputs on the external amp? Do I use fixed volume in theater bypass mode? I tried doing this and was getting no sound in my external amp.

Thanks in advance for suggestions.
 
Aug 11, 2016 at 4:00 PM Post #4,541 of 5,327

polecrab

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That should work
Hello,

I am the trying this unit as I am out of town and have access to one for the next couple days. How do I use the HA-1 as simply a DAC outputing a signal into an external headamp I brought along with me? I essentially want to use the DAC portion of the unit only to try with a portable tube amp I brought along.

Would I connect the RCA preouts to the RCA inputs on the external amp? Do I use fixed volume in theater bypass mode? I tried doing this and was getting no sound in my external amp.

Thanks in advance for suggestions.

That should have worked. When you test it, is the HA-1 getting signal (are the VU meters active)? You might want to plug in headphones directly into the HA-1, but don't put it on your head because you might hurt your ears, and play something quiet and see if there's sound from the headphones. Depending on what happens, you can troubleshoot from there (did you select the correct input, did you select the digital input that you're using as HT bypass, is the mute off, etc.).
 
Aug 11, 2016 at 8:44 PM Post #4,542 of 5,327

etc6849

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Can't believe this little thing drives my HD800 headphones: https://www.oppodigital.com/headphone-amplifier-ha-2/
 
Pretty nice travel companion.  Max volume is not really loud on soft tracks but a decent level; my headphones are ~324 ohms.
 
Aug 11, 2016 at 9:23 PM Post #4,543 of 5,327

craftyhack

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  Can't believe this little thing drives my HD800 headphones: https://www.oppodigital.com/headphone-amplifier-ha-2/
 
Pretty nice travel companion.  Max volume is not really loud on soft tracks but a decent level; my headphones are ~324 ohms.

I have no need for that little amp... but after reading about it when it came out I tried to justify it anyway, I really like Oppo's stuff, and the features on the HA-2 look great for the price.  Same thing with this HA-1, after having it for a while only as a HP amp (I way over bought on features).  I just finished setting up the Focal CMS 40 "professional" studio monitors and integrating the HA-1 better with my PCs.  I now have multiple S/PDIF sources going into it via a 4x4 optical switch, all three PCs going into it via a 4x4 USB switch (the other three ports are for a K70  LUX RGB and G900 Chaos mouse).  Now with 1 click of a button I switch I/O between PCs, and from what I can tell there is no impact to sound quality.  Now I have instant access(no more plugging/unplugging stuff) to use either headphones or monitors on any of my PCs where before I didn't use the HA-1 nearly as much because it was a PITA.  These Focal monitors sound incredible driven by the HA-1 when playing DSD or high res via USB from JRiver on PC.  And not very great with not good source material but that is what they were designed to do so I accept that.  The were a total PITA to setup to get the right imaging given my work space, but it was worth it!  I think even these entry level monitors (at $900 a pair :/) do some things better than my best headphones can do, I can only imagine monitors from Dynaudio, higher Focal Lines, Genelec, Neumann, or other lines that reportedly blow these Focals out of the water assuming a good signal chain and good source material.
 
That said, I also get some of the feature requests in this thread, having an always on class A amp isn't ideal and switching between headphones and monitors could be more convenient.  But, I am also happy with the features that are included (bypass and mute options) that make it easier to use than most DAC/AMPs I have looked at in a setup I don't think it was designed for.  Overall I am really happy I picked this over some of the other options I was considering given they wouldn't have been able to do this at all.
 
Aug 12, 2016 at 6:52 PM Post #4,544 of 5,327

etc6849

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My cable turned out decent.  Seems to have more bass, but I will measure so you guys can compared to using the stereo phono jack.  I posted some measurements using the phono jack and the HA-1 here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/23205#post_12773379
 
and
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/23220#post_12773550
 
Have enough extra cable and connectors to make XLR-4 to whatever is needed too.
 

 
Aug 12, 2016 at 7:10 PM Post #4,545 of 5,327

craftyhack

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  My cable turned out decent.  Seems to have more bass, but I will measure so you guys can compared to using the stereo phono jack.  I posted some measurements using the phono jack and the HA-1 here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/23205#post_12773379
 
and
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/23220#post_12773550
 
Have enough extra cable and connectors to make XLR-4 to whatever is needed too.
 
 

How much did it end up costing you all in if you don't mind my asking?  I have wondered if it is worth it to get into DIY, and I know it is cheaper, but not sure if cheap enough to have to deal with it :).
 

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