[pinnahertz]

Is your standby UPS fanless?

Well....I'm not a fan, so that's at least one fan less.

But what's your point anyway? That a UPS is bad because it has a fan? Come on, Amir. Like the fan is what's wrong here.

Lots of stuff has fans. And hard drives. Heck, I just pulled a VHS machine out of service that had a fan. If they make noise, and it causes problem, you either ditch the thing for something that doesn't or put all the gear in a separate closet, room, isolated rack...whatever... so it doesn't matter. But who cares anyway? The discussion is about power conditioning, not about finding a chink in someone's armor. I suspect there may yet be a few valid points to be made regarding power conditioning, besides the UPS fan.

And I'm still not a fan. Of a great many things.

 

[amirm]

But what's your point anyway? That a UPS is bad because it has a fan? Come on, Amir. Like the fan is what's wrong here.

If it has a fan and you have gas, it can spread the scento too far. That then means you have to watch your diet. And if there is one thing I hate to do, is to watch my diet....

 

[pinnahertz]

If it has a fan and you have gas, it can spread the scento too far. That then means you have to watch your diet. And if there is one thing I hate to do, is to watch my diet....

A UPS fan is likely to reduce the time required for complete gas propagation, but only slightly. In a 2500 cu ft room the typical computer case fan (50cfm) would only move 2% of the total room air in a minute. Funny thing, though, it seems scent propagation occurs much faster than any 50cfm fan circulates room air.

In an somewhat less than controlled experiment this evening, several test samples were released in a room with total volume of 150,000 cu ft with no UPS fan circulators. Testers reported detecting the sample within seconds.

So it looks like you'll have to watch your diet after all...or just listen alone.

 

[westom]

A UPS fan is likely to reduce the time required for complete gas propagation, but only slightly.

A better fan is one with a pretty geisha girl attached to it.

 

[pinnahertz]

A better fan is one with a pretty geisha girl attached to it.

Wouldn't the UPS fan be cheaper?

 

[music_man]

You guy's are talking about standby. does nothing. Check out an online ups okay. look at the measurements and you tell me. apc has full documentation on the pro site. I feel it is the only electrical conditioning worth having. you are running solely on sla batteries. you can check the dc big difference often times. depends on the equipment. if it does not make a measurable difference you do not need anything at all. oh, they do not have fans. very large units need air conditioning.

fan jokes? seriously?

 

[gregorio]

I have said this a hundred times here. the only thing worth it is not some audio voodoo. or even legit audio product. run your equipment on a online ups. it must say online. it must be enough va to support your load! now you are running on battery never a/c. we can debate but we all agree in the end battery is probably cleaner than any ac. I stress it must be an online model.

Why have you said this even once, let alone a hundred times? Even if battery is cleaner, why would that make any difference? Is your audio equipment so poorly designed that it cannot perform optimally with mains power? Or, is the mains power where you live really so massively outside specification? If your answer to either of these last two questions is yes, then why assert/advise "a hundred times" something which doesn't apply to the vast majority of users? At least make it clear in your advice that it only applies to people like you who use particularly poorly designed audio equipment or have an exceptionally poor mains power supply.

G

 

[westom]

Check out an online ups okay. look at the measurements and you tell me. apc has full documentation on the pro site. I feel it is the only electrical conditioning worth having. you are running solely on sla batteries.

Batteries say nothing about 'cleaner'. If those specification numbers say 'cleaner', then relevant specification numbers are posted here. Anyone can make subjective claims. That is why subjective is akin to a lie. Exactly what number says 'cleaner' electricity.

SLA battery says nothing about cleaner. If it did then the much 'dirtier' electricity, generated from UPS batteries and demonstrated on a Dranetz, did not exist in this citation. See:

https://www.duke-energy.com/energy-education/power-quality/tech-tips
then select Tech Tip 3.

 

[westom]

fan jokes? seriously?

What jokes? She's gorgeous.

 

[pinnahertz]

You guy's are talking about standby. does nothing. Check out an online ups okay. look at the measurements and you tell me. apc has full documentation on the pro site.

Um...no. I was checking out on-line UPS. There are several varieties, APC shows two: Double conversion and Delta conversion. That's why I requested model numbers from you.

I feel it is the only electrical conditioning worth having. you are running solely on sla batteries.

Neither of the APC topologies is running solely on batteries, though. Double conversion converts incoming AC to DC for battery charging and re-conversion to AC. Delta does the same thing but with a different input form. If these things were running solely on DC they couldn't power any common A/V devices. They must input and output AC. Yeah, I know it's a nit-pick, but fairly important distinction.

you can check the dc big difference often times. depends on the equipment.

And how do you go about checking those DC differences? Just so we're all clear about what's going on here.

if it does not make a measurable difference you do not need anything at all.

Are you suggesting we get a $2500 on-line UPS, monitor DC....somewhere....and if there is no difference we don't need it?

oh, they do not have fans. very large units need air conditioning.

Last time I checked, and it's been a few months in my location, my friendly local HVAC system had fans.

fan jokes? seriously?

Hey, it's pretty hard to take any of this seriously. I'm a bigger fan of fan jokes than I am a fan of fans. Or fans. Or fan fans.

 

[pinnahertz]

Batteries say nothing about 'cleaner'. If those specification numbers say 'cleaner', then relevant specification numbers are posted here. Anyone can make subjective claims. That is why subjective is akin to a lie. Exactly what number says 'cleaner' electricity.

Noise spectrum, waveform distortion, transient content and level, DC offset. All are metrics of the quality of AC power.

SLA battery says nothing about cleaner. If it did then the much 'dirtier' electricity, generated from UPS batteries and demonstrated on a Dranetz, did not exist in this citation. See:

https://www.duke-energy.com/energy-education/power-quality/tech-tips
then select Tech Tip 3.

That's an interesting "tip", certainly uncommon though. If computers locked up when operating on a conventional UPS, even 10% of them in the world, those UPS's would fail as a product. They've succeeded for decades with nasty output waveforms. The "tip" is an isolated anecdote. The Drantez could have easily been an oscilloscope...and actually shown more detail. The tip shows how a sine wave output UPS provides cleaner power and how one isolated device with a really poor power supply was sensitive to that. The entire thing is tangential to the discussion.

 

[music_man]

poor power delivery. mostly on diesel generator. I apologize I did not clarify that. I imagine elsewhere there is ac good enough it shall require nothing. remember some of these things can harm your equipment in isolated cases too.

it was double conversion. obviously it has to convert back to ac hence the double conversion but 100% cleaner than here and as low as 70v high as 180v. no go. wanted to live in the middle of nowhere so there you go.

funny? light bulbs exploding is always nice ahh but now we have led's.

 

[westom]

That's an interesting "tip", certainly uncommon though. If computers locked up when operating on a conventional UPS, even 10% of them in the world, those UPS's would fail as a product.

Computers are required to be so robust that 'dirty' UPS power (which is routine) can be problematic to motorized appliances and power strip protectors. And is perfectly ideal for properly designed computers.

This 120 volt sine wave UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with a spike up to 270 volts. Also perfectly good for any properly designed computer.

Point remains - UPS power is only 'cleaner' when myths (subjective beliefs) replace honest answers. That means numbers. If a UPS output is cleaner, then a specification numbers (ie %THD) was posted. Where is that number?

Good luck finding specifications from UPS manufacturers. They quietly warn not to power motorized appliances or power strip protector from a UPS. They don't say why. UPS power in battery backup mode is some of the 'dirtiest'. As the Dranetz waveforms demonstrate: first waveform comes from AC mains. Following waveforms come from a UPS battery. That Dranetz picture is significantly cleaner than many other UPS outputs I have observed. No problem for computers. Those are some of the most robust appliances inside a house.

 

[westom]

... as low as 70v high as 180v. no go. wanted to live in the middle of nowhere so there you go.

That is voltage from your diesel generator? Did they give it away for free? Nobody needs a generator that defective. Maximum voltage for 120 volt appliances is 130 volts. Which means many are still happy at 140 volts. But no 120 volt generator should ever create 180 volts.

Much smarter is to obtain a computer with a universal supply. That means any voltage from 85 to 265 volts is perfectly ideal for that computer. All portable electronics must have a universal supply. If your power is that bad, then every electronic appliance must be a universal supply type.

Or end up spending seriously less money on something that is more expensive - ie a Honda generator. Those are designed by engineers (not business school graduates). Therefor do not output massive (unacceptable) voltage variations. And that UPS protector circuit was not damaged by a defectively designed generator. An engineer designed generator also provides more power from much less fuel.

How to get light bulbs to burn out twice as fast? Operate those 120 bulbs on 127 volt power. What does 180 volts do? That cheap diesel generator may be a most expensive generator. No properly designed generator should do that.

 

[bigshot]

I can't believe people can come up with so many words discussing a non issue. If someone has solved all the problems larger than "clean power", then their job is done. They should be listening to music, not trying to think of another kind of esoteric and useless piece of equipment to buy. Just plug the stuff in the wall and listen to music.