Opamp rolling - must I change capacitors?

[SilverShadow]

Hello!

Noob here. I'm thinking of maybe rolling the opamps in my E-MU 0404 USB. I'm considering the OPA-Sun V.2 discrete opamp. This is something I won't have the money to do very soon(yeah, even $25+shipping takes time to come up with when you are a 17-year old student with weekly allowance of 5€ as the only income

), but when/if I do it, is it considered a must to get better capacitors to hear the true improvement from the new opamp?

If that's the case, I'm going to forget the whole thing and just buy a new DAC in the future. I just don't have the skills or experience to start messing aroung with the caps. I have no idea which ones to change and I can't find the info anywhere. A true DIY guy would hardly be stopped by a problem like this... Conclusion: no messing aroung with caps for me.

So, how much sq would I be missing if I did't touch the caps? Would rolling to the OPA-Sun even be worth it without better caps? Or is there even a technical reason to change the caps?

Thanks for any advice!

 

[slowpogo]

I have a few comments about this...

First, are the opamps socketed in the 0404 USB? If they are, fine, go ahead and change them if you want. But if they're soldered in, I wouldn't touch if it I were you. If you want to change them, find someone here at Head Fi who will mod it for you. This is because the solder pads on sound cards (especially SMD parts) are quite delicate, and it's all too easy to rip them out. I know, I've done it on two sound cards.

Changing caps is actually much easier IMO.

Secondly, I have successfully changed opamps on sound cards as well (on an old Sound Blaster and Echo Mia). Maybe it's different with the 0404 but I didn't find it really increased the "quality" of the sound, it really just changed the "flavor." And this was after changing from cheap JRC stock opamps to the supposedly much better AD8066.

Changing caps does make a big difference, in my experience. In my humble opinion, if you really want to improve the card, buy some caps and try to find someone here at head-fi to do the work if you're not comfortable with it. Even just replacing the pertinent analog section caps with Panasonic FM/FC, which would probably cost you $10 or less, would be a noticeable improvement. It has been for me with the Mia and Emu 1212m.

If there are output coupling caps, replace them with Black Gates--that is, if they are even necessary. Often you can just short the output caps on sound cards. Even the Black Gates shouldn't run you more than $10 though, assuming they are common values like 10uf and 47uf.

There are some 0404 USB modding threads around here, do a search for "0404 USB mod" and you'll see them...should give you some more concrete info.

 

[SilverShadow]

Ookay.... Thanks!

You made me realize that this project is indeed more difficult than what I'm comfortable with. Hiring a Head-Fi'er to do the modding would otherwise be an exellent idea but I'm living in this remote corner of Europe commonly known as Finland... Not exactly lots of audio-DIY guys here. And if I send the card to someone in, say Germany, Great Britain etc., the shipping costs would be way more than the parts...

Well, unless a helpful Head-Fi member with modding skills shows up in Scandinavia, I'll just save some money and buy a new DAC in the future. Takes time though. Well, we'll see if I even start tube rolling my LD MKIV. No point in buying better tubes if they're fed less-than-optimal signal from the DAC already.

Kinda funny actually. Contrary to what it may sound like, I like my rig a lot already. I'm just bothered by the idea of feeding the amp with lower-fidelity signal than the amp's own capabilities. Not to talk about my K701s. So I'm actually just hoping to optimize the existing signal path to get the best sound at the lowest possible cost.

 

[amb]

The 0404 USB is all-SMD inside, and there is not much space between the bottom main board and the top control board. I haven't measured but I doubt something big like those "discrete opamps" would fit.

 

[SilverShadow]

^^

Yeah, I was planning to run the opamp cables through the cuts on the sides and keep the opamp outside the E-MU box if I had to, but it doesn't matter anymore... There is no such thing as an inexpensive tweak to improve sound, apparently. To me it seems you need a whole lot of skills and experience aqquired behorehand to do this kind of modding. And of course, getting the experience involves investing money on small DIY projects.

I guess I should have realized by now that there just isn't an inexpensive way to get good sound in the long run...

And at one point I was fool enough to think the forum slogan "Sorry for your wallet" was just a joke.

Well, I'll just enjoy what I have and get a better DAC later on. Not sure if I can keep myself from tube rolling, though. Just to see IF better tubes would improve the sound regardless of the not-exactly-top-notch DAC... Just to experiment... (Oh, who could have guessed it'd come to this?

)