[Sound Eq]

well i think if its amp is not on par then it does not check all my needs points 
 
i am done to accept anything less than amazing after owning the ak100ii

 

[mscott58]

you haven't compared it to DX100, PAW Gold, AK240, AK120, Calyx M, Cowon P1 yet. 
How would  you compare this pioneer DAP's SQ to that of other DAPs above?

IMO I liked the SQ of the 240,120, QP1R and PawGold better than the Pioneer DAP. The UI of the Pioneer is better than the QP1R and PawGold however. Didn't try the M, DX100 or P1. Cheers

 

[kawaivpc1]

IMO I liked the SQ of the 240,120, QP1R and PawGold better than the Pioneer DAP. The UI of the Pioneer is better than the QP1R and PawGold however. Didn't try the M, DX100 or P1. Cheers

So it has inferior sound quality.
I thought they will make 100R sound better than 240 and offer it at a lower price.

 

[mscott58]

So it has inferior sound quality.
I thought they will make 100R sound better than 240 and offer it at a lower price.

SQ is always subjective. That's how I heard it. However with good external amp it shows that the 100R's DAC is better than the amp allows it to show through. Cheers

 

[Max Choiral]

So it has inferior sound quality.
I thought they will make 100R sound better than 240 and offer it at a lower price.

And why would they do that?

If Pioneer can make smth better than 240, it will cost more than 240. 
I wonder if you're too naive or don't understand at all how audio market works.

 

[kawaivpc1]

 
And why would they do that?

If Pioneer can make smth better than 240, it will cost more than 240. 
I wonder if you're too naive or don't understand at all how audio market works.

if they offer it at a lower price, it will sell a lot more than AK240 could sell. 
Not a single person around me even knows about AK240.... it's simply not in normal consumer's price range.

 

[Jazzkammer]

And why would they do that? If Pioneer can make smth better than 240, it will cost more than 240. 
I wonder if you're too naive or don't understand at all how audio market works.

I think you are the naive on if you are really implying that no audio company, including Pioneer would be able to make a dap better than AK240 for less money, let alone be willing to sell it for less money. Astell and Kern's pricing for their high end products is in the stratosphere and has no justifiable rationale other than that people are willing to pay that much for it.

In other words, ak240 costs what it does because we let AK get away with charging that. It's not because other companies can't make something as good as or better for less money, as you suggest. And before you blather that Onkyo will be inferior because 'sound quality is what matters more than specs", let me just remind you that since sound quality is subjective, specs are the only thing that matters in this context.

You sound like an insecure AK240 owner that feels threatened by new products coming to market that compete with the 240 for less money so you are trying to claim that they can't be as good as 240 unless they COST as much as 240, which of course is absurd.

I personally am optimistic that the Onkyo and FiiO x7 will do at least 95% of what Ak120ii and 240 can do, for less than half the price.

I am also of the very unpopular opinion that when using daps with IEMs, the "differences" in sound quality are vastly overstated. And that for anything bigger than IEMs you should be using an external portable amp anyway.

 

[Jazzkammer]

And I am sorry if I came off as rude but I am totally opposed to that kind of complacent attitude towards AK prices, that in my opinion is part of the problem. The lack of faith in companies like FiiO and Onkyo to do something on par with AK just because it's less money.

 

[mscott58]

Pioneer/Onkyo can manufacture on a scale that AK could likely never match and have many more corporate resources to pull from. Not really apples to apples.

 

[Max Choiral]

You sound like an insecure AK240 owner that feels threatened by new products coming to market that compete with the 240 for less money so you are trying to claim that they can't be as good as 240 unless they COST as much as 240, which of course is absurd.

I personally am optimistic that the Onkyo and FiiO x7 will do at least 95% of what Ak120ii and 240 can do, for less than half the price.

I am also of the very unpopular opinion that when using daps with IEMs, the "differences" in sound quality are vastly overstated. And that for anything bigger than IEMs you should be using an external portable amp anyway.

haha, thanks man, that was fun

I don't have a single thing into daps produced by Astell&Kern, never have had one and wouldn't want to

 

[Max Choiral]

The lack of faith in companies like FiiO and Onkyo to do something on par with AK just because it's less money.

I believe mostly in the old "bricks"

  "slim things" don't have sound

 

[Yubacore]

  I believe mostly in the old "bricks"

  "slim things" don't have sound

 
 
One can't help but wonder: Then why are you so blatantly posting your weak opinion on a market you're not even interested in, on this thread?

 

[LFC_SL]

And I am sorry if I came off as rude but I am totally opposed to that kind of complacent attitude towards AK prices, that in my opinion is part of the problem. The lack of faith in companies like FiiO and Onkyo to do something on par with AK just because it's less money.

I agree some people will be biased towards price but that is not the only factor. Years ago i tried a Fiio portable amp and instantly moved on as it hissed with my iem. In that situation it was final outcome and not whatever bias that was the reason.

Anyway, the best kind of talk is from customers, not from companies.

 

[Dopaminer]

Pioneer/Onkyo can manufacture on a scale that AK could likely never match and have many more corporate resources to pull from. Not really apples to apples.

 
You`d be right if we were discussing any audio component other than DAPs.  AK here in Japan sell by the mountain-load, even the AK380; Onkyo/Pioneer will be newcomers and underdogs.  Hopefully Onkyo`s device will be as good as we hope and as cheap as we hope, and reset the playing field. Their larger mass-production capability could then drive prices down (even though that is in none of the manufacturers` interest).

 

[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

Im hoping for the X1 to be on Ak120ii level for a lot less money and with nicer features.

The 100R should be compared to Ak100ii level. Even then 100R will be cheaper with nicer features, no matter how you look at it the Onkyo and Pioneer daps will be great buys imo.

I personally don't think single vs dual dac makes much if any difference, it's mainly for marketing imo.

The bigger factor between 100R and X1 is the amp upgrade. Same for the Ak100ii and Ak120ii, the amp upgrade is what creates the small improvement in SQ between them imo.

I honestly think if two daps were made with the only difference being dual vs single dac, with mirrored implementations, they would sound identical imo.