One of the Best Essays I've Ever Read
Mar 13, 2004 at 8:13 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 12

minya

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This is truly one of the best essays I have ever read. My only wish is that I had read this earlier, when I was still in high school. I might have understood what was happening to me, what I was going through, and why I felt the way I did.

It is a must-read for anyone who attended a public school.

- Chris
 
Mar 13, 2004 at 9:16 AM Post #2 of 12
Great read, definitely perpetuating some of the abstract beliefs that have been floating around in my mind in recent months. But he doesn't touch on one of the more pertinent issues involved: things don't necessarily change in college and university. The dynamic is still similar, but rather more insidious because the hierarchy is still practiced because it's what most people know and are comfortable with, though they are conscious now that they are doing it.

In some ways, it gets even worse then because of it. I am going through that right now.
 
Mar 13, 2004 at 10:08 AM Post #3 of 12
I realized this about two years ago... said "***** this," and really stopped caring about my social status at school-- and more about my hobbies. Which worked pretty well, in retrospect.

Now I'm reading up on the whole 'social dynamics' thing and going to make a go at it from an entirely different direction (why? s-e-x.)... What can I say, it might turn into a hobby
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Mar 13, 2004 at 2:08 PM Post #5 of 12
Quote:

We sat at a D table, as low as you could get without looking physically different.


<takes off butt-ugly Grado headphones> <puts in ER-20's> what do you mean physically different??
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Mar 13, 2004 at 2:15 PM Post #6 of 12
Quote:

Originally posted by Trounce
... things don't necessarily change in college and university.


For me this was different, college seems a far nicer and more hospitable place than high school. Artificial 'status' (social, age, etc) elements are greatly diminished from my perspective. I think it's a combination three factors that help this:

1) Maturity - simply growing up changes you alot (despite how grown up you thought you were in high school).

2) Narrowing of the field - most people in college were smart kids in high school. This means the amount of people used to staying up by pushing others down is simply less.

3) College is more of a real-world situation. You're on your own, you make your own rules, rebellion and the other dynamics the essay claims are created by a 'meaningless society' are just not as big of an issue. Your accomplishments can affect the world outside of your university, many things accomplished at Universities (especially grad students) can be career making, or even easy street if it's that damn good.

But also I think that another factor may play into my thinking:

Purdue (where I am about to graduate from) is a huge school (40,000+ undergrads). Social divisions exist, but they are in such vast proportions that nearly everyone fits in comfortably somewhere. Contact with other groups well outside your own is extremely uncommon. For example: The "upper-tier" of college society (still probably athletes, who could now hold genuine celebrity status in the real world for their sports accomplishments) associates at the best and most exclusive frat & sorority parties. Have I ever even had the opportunity to associate with these type of people? no - and neither has anyone I know very well. It's literally a disconnected group from those who are not in it. This is in direct contrast to high school, where individuals from all social classes were forced to come into close contact everyday.


As for my thoughts on the essay: I enjoyed the read. Some very insightful views, a viable hypothesis. However, many of his underlying reasons for the 'high-school situation' really can't be proven without some sort of experimentation. I agree with what he said about popularity requiring constant work that the 'nerds' can't seem pull off. Some of my own 'experiments' towards the end of high school and beginning of college showed that with some planning, effort, and ingenuity, social status can be changed. Like eric343 suggested, if you treat popularity as a hobby (or better yet a game of skill) - I believe it is winnable by all but he most handicapped of players. As the article states, this is a zero-sum competition - the winners are meaningless in the end; but for anyone who's gone through it, a little boost in the popularity department can sure make school years alot more tolerable.

-dd3mon
 
Mar 13, 2004 at 10:38 PM Post #7 of 12
Wow. I thought I understood what happened back in the danish equivalent of junior high school, but that essay has gone way beyond just elaborating on what I was already aware of. What an amazingly enlightening read!

Now that I realize what was happening back then, I'm so glad it pretty much doesn't happen at my high-school\college, and that I've grown immune to what's left of it.

Actually, my experience of the whole thing has been quite similar to the author's. I was in between C and D, but just half a year after school was all over I had developed a whole other level of self confidence.

I'm going to make my current and previous teachers including those in junior high-school read this and try to make them make it homework for their pupils with hopes that they might understand and appreciate at least the essence of it.

He mentioned that he didn't feel about one particular teacher of his as he did of the rest. In my case that would be my english and danish teachers of which my english teacher I owe much of my now profound passion and love for the English language. I truly admire her dedication.
 
Mar 13, 2004 at 11:52 PM Post #8 of 12
Man. Thanks so much Minya... that really spoke to me.

What can I say... to say that I'm socially inadept would be as big an understatement as you'll ever hear. The author really nailed the timeline-- grade 8 was the worst time of my life. I literally had NO true friends in school. Do you know the feeling when you walk down the hall where the "popular" kids are gossiping... and the moment you come close to them everything suddenly goes quiet? Or when the cool kids mouth things to each other, giggling at thier inside joke when you're around? I know now that none of it was directed at me, none of it was personal. But man it really hurt. I sure wish I had seen it that way back then, realizing that it was just part of the "system".

In high school I chose to enrol in the International Baccalaureate... basically, a course that catered to nerds like me. Life was quite a bit better for me then. I guess there were enough of us "nerds" banded together to give us some confidence in ourselves-- confidence that we're going to succeed in life, and they aren't.

Anyway... what hasn't changed is the fact that I still suck at socializing, but I'm getting better, and the college atmosphere has helped a great deal. We're all pretty friendly at music college.
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I think I'm still not free from the the "I don't deserve friends 'cause I'm just uncool" mentality... I really really need to break free from it.

But yeah, thanks for that, haven't done so much quality reading in quite a while.
 
Mar 14, 2004 at 12:00 AM Post #9 of 12
That was a well written and in many ways true essay. I didn't really notice all of the things the author pointed out in his essay on my HS stay last year, but I guess I my rank was up around a B
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However I've lived through some pretty terrible psychologically bulling when I was 13. That was acctually a pretty horrible time, especially because I left from one class were I was around A or B, to a class where I was an outcast. Well it shifted as I, and others, grew older, and physical and mental.

BTW:did you see the school part with the pictures; bodybuilder contest :p the guys d*ck can't be more then a ½ inch
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-->Flasken
I agree with you, there's really no bulling in danish gymnasium (=upper HS.) I think ppl have grown more "right-minded"

edit:
-->Fiddler, that's a pretty cool signature!
 
Mar 14, 2004 at 1:23 AM Post #10 of 12
Thanks for the nice read. I'd like to throw out a couple of other ideas as well regarding peer group popularity, if I may.

To begin with, perhaps academic achievement isn't the only expression of a person's intelligence. A great deal of research has been done recently on socialization skills of animals, especially primates, and the rather large proportion of brain mass that seems to be dedicated to developing these social skills. If you accept the basic premise that "social intelligence" is indeed a valuable and necessary survival skill, then the popularity of certain individuals in junior high and high school (athletes, cheerleaders, etc) simply reflects something quite natural among primate groups; popularity is simply a reflection of an individual's ability to navigate and survive in the treacherous waters of peer group politics and the world at large. In the wild, or theoretical "natural state" of man, this form of social selection may have been crucial to picking charismatic leaders who would in turn guarantee inter-cooperation and the survival of the entire group.

This atavistic form of social selection, we can argue, remains with us today and still selects for the same type of individuals. The typical high school quaterback may not be academically intelligent, but he obviously has been endowed with enough social skills/social intelligence to give him a competitive advantage over others in leading other physically fit males and finding suitable mating partners
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As we see in the example of G.W. Bush, academic intelligence often takes a back seat to social intelligence and someone who has been gifted with the ability to make friends and influence people obviously presents a desirable and attractive leader and mate. OTOH, a bright academic mind who can't find his way through a faculty cocktail hour can be described as socially dumb and represents perhaps as serious a genetic liability as mild mental retardation (i.e. both a socially dumb individual and mentally dumb individual will find it difficult to find a suitable mating partner and pass on his/her genes).

Another issue that we could look at would be relative maturity rates among individuals in junior h.s. and h.s. It could be possible that the relative popularity of individuals within peer groups may be partly dependent on their differing sexual and physical maturity rates. If you look at most typical "nerds" or "geeks", they often appear much more adolescent/young than their more popular classmates. In a typical classroom environment where there is often fierce jostling for the slightest competitive advantage (more often than not, as reflected in one's popularity with members of the opposite sex), acting or looking more sexually mature would be an important, if not decisive variable in the popularity sweepstakes.

Again, physical attractiveness and athletic prowess are usually good signs of healthy genes and it makes sense that guys/girls would be sexually attracted to individuals who exhibit these traits.

As one gets older, nerds/geeks may gain more of a competitive advantage as other variables such as education level and income potential begin to influence a possible mate's decision making.
 
Mar 14, 2004 at 2:09 AM Post #11 of 12
i disagree with some points boyelroy made. i talks very little, but that dont mean i'm socially dumb. some kids have less confidence because of being neglected so they just havent got the chance to train their socialzing skill. getting a girlfriend would boost their self esteem very much.

i agree about the leadership and the 'sarcistic bush analogies?' (since bush is up there in the clouds when considernig his academic skill. bush: "you teach kids to read so they can pass the literacy test"), but maybe you went too far in applying it to this situation. the school i used to go for 9th and 10th, i had bunch of crazy blonde teenboppers over me. yet i'm the average asian and i cant play sport for crap. being popular and having a lot of girl hardly prove that the football quarterback is have high leardhership skill. as for being skilled picking the right mating individual, those kids went through about 7 to 8 girls in a school year in their so call relationship, but yeah, its for gaining experiences. what do you have against not good looking people?

oh and sorry about sounding so defensive.
 
Mar 14, 2004 at 2:21 AM Post #12 of 12
Quote:

i disagree with some points boyelroy made. i talks very little, but that dont mean i'm socially dumb. some kids have less confidence because of being neglected so they just havent got the chance to train their socialzing skill. getting a girlfriend would boost their self esteem very much.


Hi Terrymx,

My apologies for this. I was really using an extreme example to make a point re: social intelligence. I don't mean to imply that all shy or self-described "nerdy" people are somehow "mentally dumb" (!).

Also, I don't have anything against less than attractive people (certainly, I'm well within this group), but I was trying to make a point regarding some recent research on perceived physical attractiveness (symmetry, etc.) and the health of one's genes. I think I'm just curious about how people choose their partners and it did surprise me how similar humans are to other animals in this regard.
 

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