On the fence with DT 250-250 & PROline 650

[Jaska]

I'm in the market for some new closed headphones. I've previously owned the DT 250-80, and have been planning on "upgrading" to the DT 250-250. However, I can't help but give the Ultrasone PROline 650 some consideration as an all-around headphone.

I think my general taste in headphones is probably quite evident, given the two models I'm considering. I'm looking for extremely well-balanced sound from a closed headphone, without exaggerations in the bass and treble, and essentially nothing that stands out and detracts from an otherwise coherent and balanced sound. I considered the DT 250-80 to be almost perfect for my needs, and am quite sure that I would like the DT 250-250 at least as much. But, has anyone here actually owned both of these headphones or listened to them extensively enough to comment on their respective neutrality and ability to serve as an all'rounder?

Whichever of these two models I end up buying will be my primary listening headphones for home use, so for me this is quite a big decision (even though I wouldn't be spending huge loads of money in this case). FWIW, I would be paying an identical price no matter which of these I go with, so price comparisons aren't a real factor.

P.S. I wish the PROline 650 was one of the headphones in saint.panda's excellent review of closed headphones...

 

[Andrew_WOT]

If you are looking for balanced presentation Ultrasones are probably not the best choice. Prolines are very capable but not that smooth, have pronounced peak at treble and lows ans somewhat recessed mids.
Having both DT250-80 and DT250-250 I cannot tell for sure that there was any noticeable difference between two. There might be, if you do A/B, but I had them at different time and wasn't able to do any comparison testing.
IMHO the most balanced, almost HD650 presentation with some sweet emphasis on mids, comes out of AKG-K271S. You may want to look into these.
Properly amped they have, despite bad rap here, very plentiful and deep bass.
Recabled and with velour pads they are just unbeatable for closed under $500.

P.S.
I am a big fan of saint.panda too. He actually had Prolines 750, and promised a review a while ago. Not sure what's holding him, perhaps overenthusiastic reactions of Ultrasone owners to any more or less negative comments regarding their *Precious*.

 

[rhymesgalore]

If you're looking for a balanced sound, the Proline650 is not your HP. It has elevated bass and -to a smaller extend- elevated highs as well. It has a "fun sound" signature , but not a balanced, neutral one.

edit: andrew_wot beat me to it

 

[Jaska]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhymesgalore /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you're looking for a balanced sound, the Proline650 is not your HP. It has elevated bass and -to a smaller extend- elevated highs as well. It has a "fun sound" signature , but not a balanced, neutral one. edit: andrew_wot beat me to it

Thanks very much to both of you (rhymesgalore and andrew_wot). That pretty much settles it for me. I had forgotten that I'm also bothered by the PROline 650 having both of the cables terminated to 1/4" connectors. Small beef, but since there are two cables (a great thing), it would seem more logical if one of them could be terminated to a mini. Am I picky? Yep. But since I would be listening via my Hornet, using an adapter all the time or hacking the cable to make it more usable would not be cool.

I just sent my payment for the DT 250-250, so I'll be looking forward to receiving them soon

<-- me getting by with the ER-4S for the time being

 

[lini]

Jaska: I've got both the /250 and the /80 - and I like the /250 way better. In direct comparision you should notice the /250 being a lot more extended (especially in the treble), but with a bit less pronounced upper midrange and more smoothness in general. Bass presentation seemed similar to me, but a tad deeper on the /250. Efficiency seemed not much lower with the /250 despite the tripled impedance. I'm not really sure which of the two is actually more neutral - but I guess I'd rather recommend the /80 especially for voice monitoring puposes, whereas the /250 would seem better for music monitring & listening to me...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Jaska]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lini /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess I'd rather recommend the /80 especially for voice monitoring puposes, whereas the /250 would seem better for music monitring & listening to me...

Thank you very much for the information. I was actually in touch with someone from Beyerdynamic via e-mail not too long ago about the DT 250's, and this is definitely in line with what he told me.

I think these will turn out to be an excellent headphone choice for my needs, and again, another thank you to all who have helped me sort out the details to make the decision.

 

[DDF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaska /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank you very much for the information. I was actually in touch with someone from Beyerdynamic via e-mail not too long ago about the DT 250's, and this is definitely in line with what he told me. I think these will turn out to be an excellent headphone choice for my needs, and again, another thank you to all who have helped me sort out the details to make the decision.

Jaska,
Please let us know how you get on with these. I bought a pair of DT250-250s last year and loved the balanced sound, they were perfect in all but one major way. The right and left were very unevenly matched and the stereo image wandered all over as a result. I eventually returned them. If they've fixed this problem, I'd buy another pair in a second.

 

[Jaska]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDF /img/forum/go_quote.gif Jaska, Please let us know how you get on with these. I bought a pair of DT250-250s last year and loved the balanced sound, they were perfect in all but one major way. The right and left were very unevenly matched and the stereo image wandered all over as a result. I eventually returned them. If they've fixed this problem, I'd buy another pair in a second.

As it turns out, the imbalance concerns with the DT 250-250 were the subject of my e-mail exchanges with Beyerdynamic. I'll copy and paste the appropriate bits and pieces from Beyerdynamic below.

According to the R&D department, "the injection molding form was changed. We can´t leave away this part as it holds the connector in place...

I just listened to three DT250, taken from final assembly (which is about 10m away from my office, and they sounded like i would have expected.... Apart from this, I think, that this problem was solved"

I also received a separate response regarding driver matching in the DT 250-250:

"We measure 100% of the transducers (for headphones before the final assembly, for microphones afterwards), they have to be inside a tolerance range of ±2dB before getting stereo matched."

All in all, I have to say that Beyerdynamic's responsiveness to customer inquiries is absolutely top-notch. I really expect and believe that my new DT 250-250 will be free from any defects, and I will be absolutely sure to follow up with this after I've listened to them.

Further, I don't believe there's any reason to think that new stock of this headphone would suffer from the imbalance issue, since the company has indicated that the problem has been corrected.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

My DT250-250 left driver died after 3 days of moderate level burn in. If I am not mistaken someone else reported similar problem.
May be it was somehow related with that molding issue. Is there any indication on headphones to distinguish between new and old assembly? Most retailers I assume still carry old stock.

 

[Jaska]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is there any indication on headphones to distinguish between new and old assembly? Most retailers I assume still carry old stock.

I asked about whether one could differentiate old vs. new via serial numbers or such, but didn't get a direct answer to that. I will send a follow-up e-mail shortly to try to clarify this.

I'm quite sure my DT 250-250 will be brand new stock, since the Finnish web store I just bought them from is out of stock and has to get more (presumably though the Finnish Beyerdynamic importer) in order to fill my order. I don't want to speculate too much about what might be an old DT 250 or a new one by cosmetic characteristics, but if you have a look at the pictures on HeadRoom, you'll notice a HUGE cable connector. The new ones I've seen (and owned) here in Finland have this connector. So, this could simply be a change in the cord, or it could be a change in the cord plus other design changes. I'd really like to know more about this, so I'll do what I can to investigate...

 

[DDF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaska /img/forum/go_quote.gif According to the R&D department, "the injection molding form was changed. We can´t leave away this part as it holds the connector in place... I just listened to three DT250, taken from final assembly (which is about 10m away from my office, and they sounded like i would have expected.... Apart from this, I think, that this problem was solved" I also received a separate response regarding driver matching in the DT 250-250: "We measure 100% of the transducers (for headphones before the final assembly, for microphones afterwards), they have to be inside a tolerance range of ±2dB before getting stereo matched." All in all, I have to say that Beyerdynamic's responsiveness to customer inquiries is absolutely top-notch. I really expect and believe that my new DT 250-250 will be free from any defects, and I will be absolutely sure to follow up with this after I've listened to them. Further, I don't believe there's any reason to think that new stock of this headphone would suffer from the imbalance issue, since the company has indicated that the problem has been corrected.

Jaska, that's great support from Beyer; Thanks for sharing.

Please note: the issue with the headphones wasn't transducer tolerancing, it is related to the physical mouldings of teh headphone holding the transducers. I used to work in headphone design (long story). Also be aware that within any given transducer batch, the units are usually very well matched to each other. Tolerance tends to vary much more from batch to batch. So it sounds like they changeda moulded part and that the R&D department gave a listen, both very encouraging.

To test this out, take a slowly swept sine wave (log sweep in time), and play it while listening carefully. With the older version of the headphone, the image moves radically back and forth from left to right as the sine sweeps. Hopefully they fixed this. For camparison, my DT770, AKG K81DJs and Stax electrostics are for the most part dead cenetered in the middle through the sweep, all teh way up to 10 kHz.

I'd be happy to send you the appropriate MP3 file if you'd like. You can PM me through head-fi.

Thanks for following up later. If you find this problem is gone, I'll be ordering a pair. I loved the tonal balance of these headphones. Fantastic for classical, and seductive in their neutrality.

Dave

 

[DDF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif My DT250-250 left driver died after 3 days of moderate level burn in. If I am not mistaken someone else reported similar problem.

On mine the phone jack broke in about a week, on one channel. I've read others having the same problem. My guess is that it happened to yours too. There must have been a bad manufacturing run for a while.

 

[dave-g]

I've got a pair of the 250-80's and have had MANY problems with the cables. at first I thought it was just the jack, as I could move it and have the left ear cut out. I order another cable from their service center (for $40 bucks) But I had clients coming in the next day so, I chopped off the factory jack and put on a nice neutrix jack, with cardas silver solder, and some nice shrink-wrap for a pro look. I test the cable and there were no faults, even under stress. So I plugged them back into the headphones and the left ear was still cutting out... So, I went into into that crazy plug that goes into the headphone (it's got like 7 pins on it) and re-solder all of them for good measure. Still, the left ear kept cutting out. I ended up taking the headphones apart and resoldering the ends of that crazy plug from the plug to the board, and then from the board to the actual speakers... still the left ear cuts out. my only guess is that they have some wire loose inside the actual driver and at that point I called it a day.
I called about service and got a nice response but was told that they were out of warranty so I'd be charged for the service. At this point I had already invested in a replacement cable, which I opened, just to test it and ease my mind (but yet it didn't work either), and the new jack. So, now they are sitting in a box collecting dust.
I loved them when they were working, but headphones that never leave and a studio, and are only worn by one person (me) who does not abuse his gear (I work too hard for my stuff, the last thing I'd do is abuse it!!!) should not break in just over a year. I've had crappy Sony HD600's that I DJ'd and toured with under the worst possible conditions and those things just wouldn't die (even though I wished they would have!).