[icebear]

  Its also a music education thing, they don't know the differences between 2 genres like jazz and blues. People don't see  that jazz music is based on complex modal changes and intricate chord patterns whereas blues for the most part is a lot more basic like minor penatatonic scales and 12 bar blues. 
 
Even the differences between Be-Bop and Hard-Bop are hard to describe if you don't play and instrument. When you listen to hard bop without this knowledge it doesn't dawn on you that the differences are melody based passages as apposed to chordal based music. 

 
 

 
No offense intended but it the kind of nit picking you've outlined above that turns so many people off to jazz. I realize that I am equally guilty of the same offense with several of my own posts. For me it's less about the sub-genres within jazz as opposed to the general lumping of anything slightly "jazzy" into the jazz category. For example this thread should be highlighting many of the fabulous young jazz musicians making great music but instead we get lots and lots of mentions of vocalists, jazz or otherwise.
 
But enough bitching about it. Here is a video to one of the best young groups in jazz today: Mostly Other People Do the Killing - this quintet is the real deal and every one of their recordings is better than their previous recording. Highly recommended. Please give them a good listen.

 
I am into Jazz big time, all kinds of stuff as long it not electronic and not too free. From Coltrane, Davis, Jarrett, Lloyd, Monk, Barber, Fitzgerald, Holiday...and also some Krall, it all depends on the mood. Unfortunately I have never had any musical education. There was only an art teacher at school no musical educator. Even though I may miss the ability to recognize certain structures by name, it does not really take anything away from my enjoyment of the music itself. Especially in live concerts when the close interaction between the musicians and the visual component seeing them communicate just with looks or facial expression or just a broad smile before they "take off".
Seeing folks like Geri Allen & Ravi Coltrane at the Village Vanguard sitting directly at the edge of the stage is just &$?#ing great

.

 

[elvergun]

   
 
 
I am into Jazz big time, all kinds of stuff as long it not electronic and not too free. From Coltrane, Davis, Jarrett, Lloyd, Monk, Barber, Fitzgerald, Holiday...and also some Krall, it all depends on the mood. Unfortunately I have never had any musical education. There was only an art teacher at school no musical educator. Even though I may miss the ability to recognize certain structures by name, it does not really take anything away from my enjoyment of the music itself. Especially in live concerts when the close interaction between the musicians and the visual component seeing them communicate just with looks or facial expression or just a broad smile before they "take off".
Seeing folks like Geri Allen & Ravi Coltrane at the Village Vanguard sitting directly at the edge of the stage is just &$?#ing great

.

 

 

[TJ Elite]

I am into Jazz big time, all kinds of stuff as long it not electronic and not too free. From Coltrane, Davis, Jarrett, Lloyd, Monk, Barber, Fitzgerald, Holiday...and also some Krall, it all depends on the mood. Unfortunately I have never had any musical education. There was only an art teacher at school no musical educator. Even though I may miss the ability to recognize certain structures by name, it does not really take anything away from my enjoyment of the music itself. Especially in live concerts when the close interaction between the musicians and the visual component seeing them communicate just with looks or facial expression or just a broad smile before they "take off".
Seeing folks like Geri Allen & Ravi Coltrane at the Village Vanguard sitting directly at the edge of the stage is just &$?#ing great .

I think I've already used this quote once in this thread, but:

"You don’t have to be a musician to understand jazz. All you have to do is be able to feel. If you pass through life without hearing this music, you’ve missed a great deal."
-Art Blakey

 

[magiccabbage]

just got this recently ¬
 

 
great album - thanks    ralphp@optonline 

 

[Quinto]

 
My favorite Jazz LP at the moment..

 

[HPiper]

One of the things I like about Cassandra Wilson is that she takes at least one classic blues song and completely reworks it into a jazz idiom and does a remarkable job of it too, on each of her albums.. Shows what is possible, it doesn't always work but it does more often than not.

 

[magiccabbage]

I plan on getting some John Coltrane albums today. The only one i have is "blue trane". I want to get 3 others, what do you guys suggest? 

 

[ralphp@optonline]

  I plan on getting some John Coltrane albums today. The only one i have is "blue trane". I want to get 3 others, what do you guys suggest? 

That's an easy one.
 
1) A Love Supreme (1964) - the very beginning of Coltrane's free jazz explorations - belongs in any self respecting jazz collection.
 
2) Giant Steps (1960) - Coltrane's "sheets of sound" at its peak
 
3) The Complete Africa/Brass Sessions (1961) - Eric Dolphy gets on board and Coltrane takes off

 

[magiccabbage]

 
That's an easy one.
 
1) A Love Supreme (1964) - the very beginning of Coltrane's free jazz explorations - belongs in any self respecting jazz collection.
 
2) Giant Steps (1960) - Coltrane's "sheets of sound" at its peak
 
3) The Complete Africa/Brass Sessions (1961) - Eric Dolphy gets on board and Coltrane takes off

Thanks i will get those so.
 
Do you know if he has any recordings later on in his career that aren't free jazz? If he has i would like to get something that's kind of soulful and groove based - if that makes any sense. 
 
I really like "blue trane" because it has that groove back beat. Are the albums you mentioned also like "blue trane" or completely different? The track "locomotion" is exactly the kind of thing that im looking for. 
 
There are other brass on the "giant steps" album other than sax right? 

 

[ralphp@optonline]

  Thanks i will get those so.
 
Do you know if he has any recordings later on in his career that aren't free jazz? If he has i would like to get something that's kind of soulful and groove based - if that makes any sense. 
 
I really like "blue trane" because it has that groove back beat. Are the albums you mentioned also like "blue trane" or completely different? The track "locomotion" is exactly the kind of thing that im looking for. 

Coltrane's career can be roughly broken down into several stylistic periods:
 
Early years - mostly as a sideman and mostly hard bop - his time spent with Miles Davis is in this period
 
Early leader of groups and quartet - more hard bop and the "sheets of sound" - the "Blue Trane" and "Giant Steps" recordings are in the period
 
The classic Impulse groups, including the classic John Cotrane Quartet with McCoy Tyner, Jimmy Garrison and Elvin Jones - modal based jazz
 
The free jazz period - starting with "A Love Supreme" and continuing until Coltrane's death in 1967
 
So to answer your question - try to find the album "Kenny Burrell & John Coltrane" from 1958 (smack in the middle of "early leader" period. I think that the song "Freight Trane" is just what you're looking for.
 

 

[jasonb]

On the topic of John Coltrane: 
 
My Favorite John Coltrane album that I've heard so far is definitely "Blue Train". 
 
I also own "A Love Supreme" and "Interstellar Space".
 
There is also an album that he did with Johnny Hartman that is pretty neat as well. It is the only older Jazz album I have with male vocals on it, so to me that makes it pretty unique. 

 

[ralphp@optonline]

  On the topic of John Coltrane: 
 
My Favorite John Coltrane album that I've heard so far is definitely "Blue Train". 
 
I also own "A Love Supreme" and "Interstellar Space".
 
There is also an album that he did with Johnny Hartman that is pretty neat as well. It is the only older Jazz album I have with male vocals on it, so to me that makes it pretty unique. 

The topic of John Coltrane really deserves its very own thread

 
However on the topic of Coltrane's Impulse recordings with other artists, such as the one with Johnny Hartman, I would also recommend the one he did with Duke Ellington: Duke Ellington & John Coltrane (Impulse 1962)
 
Plus Ellington also recorded with another tenor sax giant: Duke Ellington Meets Coleman Hawkins (Impulse 1962) - also recommended

 

[magiccabbage]

 
Coltrane's career can be roughly broken down into several stylistic periods:
 
Early years - mostly as a sideman and mostly hard bop - his time spent with Miles Davis is in this period
 
Early leader of groups and quartet - more hard bop and the "sheets of sound" - the "Blue Trane" and "Giant Steps" recordings are in the period
 
The classic Impulse groups, including the classic John Cotrane Quartet with McCoy Tyner, Jimmy Garrison and Elvin Jones - modal based jazz
 
The free jazz period - starting with "A Love Supreme" and continuing until Coltrane's death in 1967
 
So to answer your question - try to find the album "Kenny Burrell & John Coltrane" from 1958 (smack in the middle of "early leader" period. I think that the song "Freight Trane" is just what you're looking for.
 

that's bang on! thanks.  I had no idea he did an album with kenny. i love how he follows the sax lines on the guitar. Being a guitar player its right down my street. You dont hear enough of that in jazz from that period at least to my knowledge. 
 
back to the "blue trane" album. my favorite parts on the album are played by the trumpet and trombone players - Lee Morgan and Curtis Fuller. Do you think any of their albums would be worth getting. What was Fuller like as a leader? He has a good lot of albums from 57 - 62 - have you heard any of them?
 
Its funny how all my favorite parts of the album aren't played by Coltrane himself. Do you know if he wrote the parts for the other brass? 

 

[ralphp@optonline]

  that's bang on! thanks.  I had no idea he did an album with kenny. i love how he follows the sax lines on the guitar. Being a guitar player its right down my street. You dont hear enough of that in jazz from that period at least to my knowledge. 
 
back to the "blue trane" album. my favorite parts on the album are played by the trumpet and trombone players - Lee Morgan and Curtis Fuller. Do you think any of their albums would be worth getting. What was Fuller like as a leader? He has a good lot of albums from 57 - 62 - have you heard any of them?
 
Its funny how all my favorite parts of the album aren't played by Coltrane himself. Do you know if he wrote the parts for the other brass? 

Lee Morgan - The Sidewinder - this is the epitome of groove oriented jazz.

 
You can also try Jack Wilkins - Merge - guitar player Wilkins is joined by tenor sax player Michael Brecker for a rousing version of Freight Trane

 

[TJ Elite]

I've never gotten into Lee Morgan's The Sidewinder for some reason. Then again I've never been a fan of Lee Morgan's playing to begin with. Freddie Hubbard is my man all the way when it comes to the trumpet. Tom Cat I however like quite a bit. It is the one Lee Morgan record I can recommend.