[rickcr42]

Quote:

In other words, read between the lines. Blindly holding up the results of a survey without considering its value doesn't signify much intellegence either

the documented fact is that not only are most americans idiots but that it is getting worse and so bad we are graduating idiots from schools of higher education to keep the other "less educated" whack jobs in line.

in effect an idiot ruling class telling the idiot working class where to apply the soap

Quote:

I can't name all five provisions off the top of my head and I'm in MENSA

I'm in "mental" as in case......

 

[granodemostasa]

this is sad. but i defend the intelligence of the American people! they are smart, only poorly educated in some instances.

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

this is sad. but i defend the intelligence of the American people! they are smart, only poorly educated in some instances.

there is enough loot flying around and enough teachers to make that statement scary but then teaching politics in the class room has taken precedence in many cases over teaching skills needed to survive the daily grind.
to graduate and still not know how to write a check or balance the checkbook,or to read a map so a person can go from A-to-B,or to be totally ignarant of history (hence doomed to repeat it) may have a partial blame there but at the same time no one is preventing these same "educated" persons from learning these skills on their own so there is not a small amount of "screw it,I really don't care if I don't know squat" involved.

Any person with the capacity to make up for areas that they know are lacking but refuses to do anything is not only ignorant but lazy as well.
Another american past time lately where diet is blamed for obesity instead of the true culprit which is sitting on your behind all day rather than move and get some damn blood pumping.

There usually IS a direct connection between flabby body and a flabby brain because many times it is the very same bad habits causing both

 

[stewgriff]

I think I remember a survey by National Geographic saying that 25% of Americans couldn't find the U.S. on an unlabeled globe; but as said, basic life skills take precedence over such "politics"; I'm concerned about Iraq, for example, but my parents tell me I'm too young to worry about that and my classmates don't really care. But doesn't the Iraq situation already cause trouble in the Middle East? Disaffected Muslim populations, radicals, the possiblity of gas rising to unprecedented levels, nuke violence, etc. I'll need a history buff for this, but doesn't the situation look a lot like the Balkans before World War II?

I don't think it's the unhealthy lifestyle that's to blame, but the instant gratification taken from the ease of technology. After all, "knowledge" isn't actually intelligence...I've read about studies that show that the "primitive" peoples like those in the forests of Papua New Guinea have faster, quicker brains than those in developed countries, due to their higher stress and dependence on their own bodies for sustenance.

I'll shut up now and put a $0.13 package of Ramen in the microwave...

 

[EyeAmEye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 There usually IS a direct connection between flabby body and a flabby brain because many times it is the very same bad habits causing both

You had me in total agreement until that statement. I'd be willing to bet the majority of scientists, doctors, and others of the ilk are overweight. Most muscle guys probably think atomic weight refers to how much an element can bench press...

I can atest to the sheer number of fools graduating college, and it's very sad. I speak to a few dozen every day, and it astounds me how basic knowledge is missing from the average college student. Yet, somehow, these students have impressive 3.5 gpa's. And ultimately, no matter what perception you may have, lack of knowledge of the constitution and states doesn't correlate to stupidity, but the inability to read and write above a kindergarten level does, and these graduates are guilty as charged. The future is very, very bright

 

[Czilla9000]

Hmmm... what about the right to expressive association?

The Supreme Court cited this right in the 1st amendment in Boy Scouts of America Vs. Dale, when they ruled in the Boy Scouts favor. They said the Boy Scouts were expressively associating themselves by excluding gay scout masters.

 

[omedon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by humanflyz It has already been done "Krusty: Well, Itchy and Scratchy are gone, but here's a cartoon that tries to make learning fun! Sorry about this, kids. But stay tuned. We've got some real good toy commercials coming right up. I swear. Boy: Say, who left all this garbage on the steps of Congress? Amendment-to-be: I'm not garbage. I'm an amendment to be. Yes, an amendment to be. And I'm hoping that they'll ratify me. There's a lot of flag burners Who have got too much freedom. I want to make it legal for policemen to beat 'em. 'Cause there's limits to our liberties. 'Least I hope and pray that there are. 'Cause those liberal freaks go too far. Boy: But why can't we just make a lawagainst flag burning? Amendment-to-be: Because that law would be unconstitutional. But if we changethe Constitution... Boy: Then we could make all sorts of crazy laws. Amendment-to-be: Now you're catching on. Boy: But what if people say you're not good enough to be in the Constitution? Amendment-to-be: Then I'll crush all opposition to me And I'll make Ted Kennedy pay. If he fights back, I'll say that he's gay. Narrator: Good news, amendment. They ratified you. You're in the U.S. Constitution. Amendment-to-be: Oh, yeah! Door's open, boys!"

LOL

That is my favourite Simpson's moment ever. It is so funny but makes me cry inside because it is so true.

 

[Tim D]

There are some roles that require a great deal of both intelligence *and* ambition, and I have found that the people in those roles are pretty fit and active. Of course maybe as they grow older they may verge towards slightly overweight depending on diet, genetics, and lifestyle like many Americans...but obesity, I don't think so but I don't wan't to go there. Well I guess there are thinkers but not doers, doers but not thinkers, and a few thinkers and doers.

I personally just think people should learn the skills and knowledge that best suits them for their environment. Personally I'd rather someone knew how to swim than know geographics, politics, or other artifacts of knowledge. Being involved in the community and politics is a good thing...that doesn't mean reciting amendments is prereq. Learning how to interpret and analyze what is written is a far greater skill that is also lacking. As long as they can put any knowledge to use, great. Will knowing all these amendements help me out of a traffic ticket

? Sometimes laughing at a Simpsons joke requires a knowledgebase that has nothing to do with pop culture.

In anycase since I can go for weeks without watching TV there are times where I am definitely out of the loop of pop culture or the news that really isn't much more than celebrity gossip. Simpsons I still hold in higher regard. Actually I referenced Simpsons of all things in my personal statement for college! I went to Bovine University.

 

[omedon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cazoo Jay Leno on the Tonight Show used to do a segment where he would take his camera to the street and ask people very easy questions. I cringed when I saw that people couldn't even name the Vice President of the country!

We have a thing like that in Canada too; it is called 'Talking to Americans' and is part of This Hour has 22 Minutes. Except instead of going to the streets they would go to the universities

Of course you never know with that kind of thing. They could be editing out a lot of knowlegeble answers to get to the bonehead ones.

 

[nysulli]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 you should be even more infuriated that our high schools and universities are graduating idiots,functional illiterates that can barely read at the fifth grade level because they don't want to hurt any feeling or piss off the parents who are paying the tuition. Rather than doing their job and failing those who are learning nothing we are instead headed for a generation of numbskulls that can not walk and chew gum at the same time and if someone ever takes away their electronic toys would not be able to function in daily life. How can they know what our rights and how/why this nation was founded when they can not even read the damn text and american history is no longer being taught in american schools because it is not PC ? Damn glad I will be deep in the ground when this nation of fools has their day in the sun

this is so true, my fiance teaches 5th grade, and some retard is running their math and english programs, now don't panic, but she isn't allowed to teach long division, multiplication, or SPELLING. thats right, i've witnessed her 5th graders try as hard as they can to multiply 5x5, using all kinds of methods, from counting on their fingers, grouping tallies on a paper, etc. and still get the wrong answer, perfect example, she asked a kid, if someone gives you five nickles, how much money do you have, after a minute he said 30 cents!!!!

the other biggie is spelling, i've read their papers, and its flat out horrible, now my spelling isn't great, but she can't grade or correct it, after all, thats what spell check is for isn't it?

that being said, my fiance thankfully does teach spelling, multiplication tables and long division, even though it could mean her job if she was caught doing it, she just feels that strongly that her kids need to know that stuff

all i know is these poor kids are doomed to failure, i honestly don't know how any of them are going to be capable of holding a decent job, especially when the type of jobs their parents think their gonna be fine getting in 10-20 years won't be here (low income school, 80% of her kids are from single parent households, and another 80-90% recieve school subsidized breakfest and lunch, and wouldn't eat if it weren't for those meals period) i just feel bad for them because they really have no idea how screwed they are in the long run, and their parents could give half a crap about it(the PTA should be called the TA, cause the teachers are required to be in it, and no parents show up, seriously, not a single one in a school of 700 kids)

 

[Illah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stewgriff I'll need a history buff for this, but doesn't the situation look a lot like the Balkans before World War II?

I don't want to get political and have the thread closed, but there are a lot of parallels to previous major conflicts going on. To tie it to the discussion on the first ammendment, those cartoons aren't helping either. I think we are all destined for a culture clash. Fundamental Islam and Western Secular Democracy simply do not mix. 1000 years of bad blood (which is still fresh in the mind of much of the Islamic world) isn't going to change once they can vote.

My fiance is an Arab/Indian Muslim, but nothing like a fundamentalist. Fundamental Islam scares her, just as it scares many Muslims. But we must also realize there are differences in the cultures beyond faith, and some Western ideals simply don't fly there. We can't 'install' a Western government and sit back and watch the waves of change.

The cartoons, while blown out of proportion by warmongering clerics, were a direct insult to Islamic culture. It'd be like printing KKK lynchmob cartoons in the US and claiming freedom of the press. Technically it is protected under the first ammendment, but that doesn't mean it's a good decision. If a paper prints it I agree, no agency should have the right to censor them. But to re-print it out of spite or mindless defiance doesn't give one the moral high ground. Knowing your rights and knowing what's right are two different things.

--Illah

 

[gshan]

I haven't really had to study the American Constitution in a looong time. It's no surprise if a lot of people don't remember them decades down the road.

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nysulli this is so true, my fiance teaches 5th grade, and some retard is running their math and english programs, now don't panic, but she isn't allowed to teach long division, multiplication, or SPELLING. thats right, i've witnessed her 5th graders try as hard as they can to multiply 5x5, using all kinds of methods, from counting on their fingers, grouping tallies on a paper, etc. and still get the wrong answer, perfect example, she asked a kid, if someone gives you five nickles, how much money do you have, after a minute he said 30 cents!!!! the other biggie is spelling, i've read their papers, and its flat out horrible, now my spelling isn't great, but she can't grade or correct it, after all, thats what spell check is for isn't it? that being said, my fiance thankfully does teach spelling, multiplication tables and long division, even though it could mean her job if she was caught doing it, she just feels that strongly that her kids need to know that stuff all i know is these poor kids are doomed to failure, i honestly don't know how any of them are going to be capable of holding a decent job, especially when the type of jobs their parents think their gonna be fine getting in 10-20 years won't be here (low income school, 80% of her kids are from single parent households, and another 80-90% recieve school subsidized breakfest and lunch, and wouldn't eat if it weren't for those meals period) i just feel bad for them because they really have no idea how screwed they are in the long run, and their parents could give half a crap about it(the PTA should be called the TA, cause the teachers are required to be in it, and no parents show up, seriously, not a single one in a school of 700 kids)

Sickening. I blame society for the way things have turned out. We now have both parents working to make ends meet, therefore their child(ren) are often left to fend for themselves. Kids, naturally, are naive as to what they should be learning and the parents are totally clueless as to what's going on because their at work or too beat to take the time to go over their kid's homework and maybe do some home schooling on free-time. We, as a nation, simply do not manage our time thoughtfully. Parents often find themselves giving into their kids demands and that's what is at the core of rotting relationship between children and their parents. Then the politics and corruption in the classroom ultimately affects the children, the most needy. Just take a look at how the school system in NYC is suffering greatly from mismanagement by the city and the Teacher's Union.

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

It'd be like printing KKK lynchmob cartoons in the US and claiming freedom of the press. Technically it is protected under the first ammendment, but that doesn't mean it's a good decision. If a paper prints it I agree, no agency should have the right to censor them. But to re-print it out of spite or mindless defiance doesn't give one the moral high ground. Knowing your rights and knowing what's right are two different things.

the first amendment allows even for bad judement to be allowed as it should and the main difference is here that even if such a cartoon were to be printed then reprinted no one would likely lose their life unless a nutjob went postal and then that person would be dealt with under the laws of wqhatever staute he offended.
In the Muslim world the state actually sponsers these outbursts (schools being allowed out and banners handed out for the protest as if an 8 year old has a clue)and riles up the population because if they did not have an external enemy to hate for their problems they might just look around and see the real true enemy is their own leaders who live large while the rest of their people waste away in squallor.do they care as they whiz by in a Mercedes if the people they pass may not have enough to even feed their family ? That rather than build industry they omly tear down and destroy because independance and a life by the populous means loss of control ?
Keep them pissed and keep them dumb because lucid thought and knowledge is a very dangerous thing if you wish to rule on a "I am king and you don't matter to me" basis.

Here there is no excuse.If it is not force fed no one seems to have even the limited amount of "I want to know" to at the minimum go to one of our great repositories of learning and knowledge,the public library,and would instead rather spend the day trhinking about how to come up with enough loot to purchase a new computer or cell phone or maybe that "cool new game" they MUST have or the world will truly end.

When I was young we two groups : Those that cared but maybe too much and who would not be above violence in the name of peace (they are now in charge of most things here including our children) and group "B" who was so burnt from getting high all day every day they really did not care if the world ended as long as they had a shot at one more cold beer to get rid of the "cotton mouth"

Group A is still pissed and are out to change the world in their idea of utopia.Group B,the ones who survived the chemical lifestyle without frying their brain,dying or going to prison mostly grew up and became objective thinkers open to all views.They LIVED what the pretenders talked and not all it was cracked up to be (yeah,i was a group B type.Maybe the prototype

).
The group "A" heads were always phonies anyway and would go as far as to have their rich daddy buy them pre-worn bell bottoms so they could look cool and fit in because they never quite "got it" that the reason goup B looked the way they did was not because of some idea of what looked "cool" but they were too burnt out to give a crap HOW they looked and too poor after buying drugs to go clothing shopping

 

[Jeff Guidry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illah Surveys don't really mean anything. Really. You can write questions that lead the survey taker, you can ask questions in such a way that lead the survery taker, you can choose certain questions over others... Two characters from the Simpsons? That's like asking someone in America to name two cities with a population over 1 million. Of course everyone will get that right, helping to make the survey more 'shocking' when so many more people know the Simpsons than the provisions of the first ammendment. Think about it - people in 3rd world countries can name Bart and Homer I can't name all five provisions off the top of my head and I'm in MENSA (www.mensa.org) - I forgot the right to petition. Does that make me ignorant and stupid? But ask me, "Do people in the US have the right to create petitions?" and I would without hesitation know the answer. Similarly, ask people if they have the right to assemble and/or protest. Ask if they have the right to free speech. Ask if the press has a right to report the facts. Ask if we have the right to practice our religion. I'm confident that many more would have answered correctly. Ask someone, "Does the first ammendment grant you the right to own a pet?" and many would say yes...but that's a leading question which encourages a 'yes' answer. Many would blurt out yes knowing that it is within their rights to own a pet without fully considering the question, just like 'trick' questions in high school. Knowing one's rights does not require the ability to recite them on command. It's almost intuitive, like the social codes that govern conduct in a dance club full of drunk singles vs. a fancy restaurant full of older folks on a Sunday. You 'know' what is and isn't acceptable but couldn't necessarily recite the rules off the top of your head. In other words, read between the lines. Blindly holding up the results of a survey without considering its value doesn't signify much intellegence either The real results of that survey? A sensationalistic headline that sells papers and gives someone's cause a few minutes in the spotlight. --Illah

I'm glad I carefully read the thread before reacting to the first post and link. I hoped (rightly) that someone would say precisely this.

The link did not say who took the poll, who sponsored it, what the poll questions were, what the methodology was, etc. Polls are becoming more and more just ways to confirm the biases of the poll sponsors. My proof is the long list of America bashers that ganged up in this thread to pile on these (suspect) poll results.