Oh yeah, it has happened!
Apr 6, 2002 at 12:38 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 24

Driftwood

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I got the cardas cables today, but didn't have a chance to really give them a serious listen until just a little while ago. For those of you who wonder how much of a difference the cables can make, it is noticable. I don't really feel prepared yet to give details, but the sound is improved substantially. A very worthwhile upgrade!

But the thing that floored me is what happened when I started listening to my cds... people comment about hearing things they have never heard, hearing details that were not audible before.

Now as I listen to my rig, I heard coughing in the middle of a track that I figured must have been my roommate in the other room... rewind... nope! It is certainly on the cd! And hearing the singer breathing! It is incredible! Hooray for cardas!

Driftwood

(Onkyo DX-C740 >> Cardas 300B >> Melos SHA-1 >> Cardas HD-600 replacement cable >> Sennheiser HD-600)
 
Apr 6, 2002 at 1:30 AM Post #2 of 24

Audio-Me

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Congrats.
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Lol, that's exactly the kind of details I'd rather have left out.
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Apr 6, 2002 at 6:17 AM Post #4 of 24

ai0tron

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YEAH but it also means that on a cleaner recording you get better resolution of the secondary harmonics in all instruments, but for me, I am waiting to hear the piano and harpsichord through this cable. I love the subtle grunginess of a piano, I am getting closer and closer to it with each upgrade but still not quite there yet. Hopefully this cable will bring out those grungy details when Schubert demands that you wail like crazy on the piano keys!
 
Apr 7, 2002 at 6:59 AM Post #5 of 24

Dusty Chalk

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Quote:

Originally posted by ai0tron
...for me, I am waiting to hear the piano and harpsichord through this cable. I love the subtle grunginess of a piano, I am getting closer and closer to it with each upgrade but still not quite there yet. Hopefully this cable will bring out those grungy details when Schubert demands that you wail like crazy on the piano keys!


What you will find is that there are very few good recordings of piano -- because of all the upper register harmonics and interplay, it's very easy to screw up the recording. Since I listen to so much piano music, there is a piece of me that has given up, but then I hear a good recording, and I still want to try...I suspect I would do better to go analogue, myself...
 
Apr 7, 2002 at 7:21 AM Post #6 of 24

kwkarth

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Dusty, the best technique I've found for recording pianos is to attach PZM's to the underside of the lid of the Grand, or alternatively, if you have a good room acoustic, open the lid fully and position two cardioids to the right of the piano (from the payer's perspective, one pointing at the lid so as to reflect off the lid towards the bass registers, and the other mic to the treble registers.. Another technique I've used is to remove the lid altogether and position a coincident x-y mic pointing at the center of the hammer bank about 2 feet distant from the harp. The acoustic of the hall and the characteristic of the piano will make a huge difference as to what technique works best. You have to make test cuts, and listen to find the one that best captures that particular piano's character. It's a balance between direct hammer action vs harp/sounding board and string resonance vs hall acoustic. You can choose to capture from the musician's perspective or the audience. I've done both and depending upon the mood and style of the music, the best way isn't always the same.

Best of luck!!
kevin
 
Apr 7, 2002 at 7:27 AM Post #7 of 24

kwkarth

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BTW, although digital mediums capture a piano better than analog techniques because of micro flutter issues with analog, you have to remember to keep max level about 10db down because transient attacks often happen too fast to see on meters but they'll hose up the sound of your recording.
Cheers
 
Apr 7, 2002 at 9:21 AM Post #8 of 24

ai0tron

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"What you will find is that there are very few good recordings of piano"

II have always felt like the recordings of piano I own sounded strained, even the better ones. Everything is kind of smeared somehow. I always think of a piano as a crisp instrument but they always sound so 'melted' on my recordings. I don't think this problem is limited to just the piano though, I have lots of cello stuff and notice the same problems with it. sometimes it just sounds so uneasy. Like it's on the virge of breaking or something.
 
Apr 7, 2002 at 5:09 PM Post #9 of 24

kwkarth

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I agree, there are few GOOD commercial recordings of pianos. However, it is certainly possible to achieve. I've made a number of good recordings myself.
biggrin.gif
I'll go through my stuff here and see if I can't pull out some good examples of well done commercial recordings and mention them here. BTW, re cello recordings... The recent series produced by Sony; Appalachia Waltz, Appalachian Journey, Short Trip Home, Uncommon Ritual, and Heartland - An Applachian Anthology, are examples of very well arranged, recorded, and produced recordings of cello, bass viol, guitar, and other stringed instruments. If you haven't heard them, you owe it to yourself to check them out. Start with the anthology since it contains samples from the other albums as well as some wonderfully unique cuts.

Happy Listening!!
 
Apr 10, 2002 at 10:25 AM Post #10 of 24

elipsis

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Quote:

Originally posted by Driftwood
I got the cardas cables today, but didn't have a chance to really give them a serious listen until just a little while ago. For those of you who wonder how much of a difference the cables can make, it is noticable. I don't really feel prepared yet to give details, but the sound is improved substantially. A very worthwhile upgrade!

But the thing that floored me is what happened when I started listening to my cds... people comment about hearing things they have never heard, hearing details that were not audible before.

Now as I listen to my rig, I heard coughing in the middle of a track that I figured must have been my roommate in the other room... rewind... nope! It is certainly on the cd! And hearing the singer breathing! It is incredible! Hooray for cardas!

Driftwood

(Onkyo DX-C740 >> Cardas 300B >> Melos SHA-1 >> Cardas HD-600 replacement cable >> Sennheiser HD-600)


Often with orchestral music, you'll hear details like people turning pages of sheet music and shuffling their feet.
 
Apr 10, 2002 at 3:56 PM Post #11 of 24

Dusty Chalk

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Quote:

Originally posted by kwkarth
BTW, although digital mediums capture a piano better than analog techniques because of micro flutter issues with analog, you have to remember to keep max level about 10db down because transient attacks often happen too fast to see on meters but they'll hose up the sound of your recording.
Cheers


You know, it's probably this that I'm hearing. (EDIT: the transients, that is.)

Thanks for your informative posts -- I do hope to record piano someday -- and I would love to hear some of your suggestions of well-recorded piano. Especially classical (Chopin? Schubert?).
 
Apr 11, 2002 at 1:21 AM Post #12 of 24

ai0tron

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Yes KW I eagerly await your suggestions.

Hey Dusty are those your 2 favorites?

Schubert is mind numbingly good.

I watched a video of Arthur Rubenstien playing chopin yesterday... WOW, what an insane performance.

Also love Mozarts 20th piano concerto. Well I like em all but the 20th, well, there isn't much one can say about it really.
 
Apr 11, 2002 at 2:40 AM Post #13 of 24

Dusty Chalk

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Quote:

Originally posted by ai0tron
Hey Dusty are those your 2 favorites?


For piano, yes. They are two of my favourites. Quote:

Schubert is mind numbingly good.


Indeed. Quote:

I watched a video of Arthur Rubenstien playing chopin yesterday... WOW, what an insane performance.


Rubenstein was my first...Chopin, that is...
 
Apr 11, 2002 at 4:11 AM Post #14 of 24

kwkarth

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One of these days, I’ll put together that liszt.

On another note, ai0tron, I used to live in Savannah on Whittaker St. downtown back in the early ‘70’s. I suppose the city’s changed a bit since then ‘eh?
(I know, you haven’t been alive that long…
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)

BTW, one disc comes to mind that’s pretty good…

Reference Recordings RR-84CD, “Dick Hyman in Recital”
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It’s a nice jazz work produced by “J. Tamblyn Henderson” of Absolute Sound fame and engineered by one of my engineering heroes, Keith O. Johnson. The piano is also one of my all time favorites, a 9’ Bosendorfer Imperial concert grand reproducing piano. (model 290SE) A most lovely sounding piano. The "Imperial" is known worldwide for its unsurpassed power and richness of sound. It is the only concert grand with nine sub-bass notes - down to bottom C - which give it a full, eight octave compass.

The room is a bit small and the mics a bit distant for the smallness of the room, and the room a bit hot, so you hear a lot of it. Prof. Johnson hung some sound blankets over a couple walls to tone the room down a bit. Overall, a good example of a decent recording. My main gripe is that on occasion, I swear I can hear microflutter-like stuff going on. Must be my ears…

Nice article about other sessions with this piano:
http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?298:0

Reviews:
http://www.audiophilia.com/software/mm5.htm
http://www.rockian.com.au/ref/ref84cd.htm
 
Apr 11, 2002 at 1:57 PM Post #15 of 24

LTUCCI1924

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Driftwood
HI. The coarda cables cost 150.00 almost the price of the 580s. Is it worth the money for the almost doubleing the price of the 580s? If so I think I saw them at headroom. Is this the best place to get them or could they be had cheeper elsewhere?
 

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