Official Sony DMP-Z1 Thread
Jan 6, 2022 at 2:48 PM Post #3,061 of 4,291
I think the TA weights more due to the transformer and power supply is built-in onto the device, unlike DMP, the power sipply is external (AC adaptor) and the use of TIs TPA vs a full analogue class A or AB amp in Tazzy
 
Jan 6, 2022 at 3:08 PM Post #3,062 of 4,291
@pdL389 do you use the DSD-Remastering or not? I do like it but i am currently teating my DMP direct mode (DSD-RE off) just for curiosity and also sounds really good
 
Jan 6, 2022 at 4:18 PM Post #3,063 of 4,291
Direct mode all the way.
 
Jan 6, 2022 at 8:53 PM Post #3,064 of 4,291
Apart of the now discontinued Sony Media Go, what other Music Management program can be used to send tracks and whole albums to the Internal memory of the DMP?
 
Jan 7, 2022 at 1:08 AM Post #3,066 of 4,291
As Sony said in the TA-ZH1ES Interview, Digital Amps are an dead technology, there is nothing really you can improve, and Texas Instruments does have an similar opinion on it. Beside the output power, there is nothing you can do to digital amps, they are pretty much as perfect as it gets.

When did Sony ever said Digital Amps are dead? They merely said that with their CURRENT implementation in the S-Master they are power limited, but they never ruled out that in the future that limitation can be overcomed.

I just don't see a reason why any design decision inside the DMP-Z1 is helping it be better than the TA-ZH1ES. Almost everything inside the DMP-Z1 is totally designed around the limitation of an traditional DAC/AMP combo and not to be superior to the S-Master. Again the Alps, the two board, all this solves problems the TA-ZH1ES never had.

I personally see the DMP-Z1 as an portable version of the TA-ZH1ES the same way an Notebook is an portable Version of an Desktop. And as with Notebooks/Desktops, the DMP-Z1 does have the same advantages, limitations and the same typical portable tax, the price increase you pay for every device that is portable.

You do realise the DA hybrid model in the TA amps corrects for noise with a pure D amp method which doesn't exists in the DAC/class A amp model in the DMP-Z1 right? It's literally there in the interviews as why they implemented that.

You are ignoring that each design has its own merits and drawbacks and forcing your narrow view into the conclusion which you've already made up in your mind.....
 
Jan 7, 2022 at 1:32 AM Post #3,067 of 4,291
For the benefit of others let's quickly sum up the pros/cons of each implementation:

Class A: old but very well understood technology, as such any of the shortcomings of the design have some known way to correct for it. The major disadvantage is that it is highly inefficient (< 50%), so a lot of power is lost as heat. It's not an issue for a desktop application where you have constant power supply and have a big chassis to dissipate the heat, but in the Sony Walkman's team's mind, it is a major drawback as they want to aim for longer play time while not having to slap on a huge (>3000mAH) battery as well as keeping the player sleek, slim, and cool. Also a DAC/Class A topology is more complex, and since the signal path is analogue, is more susceptible to outside EMI especially in a small confined space.

Class D (S-Master): very efficient design in theory (>90%), design is less complex because of everything being packed into one package, thus also less susceptible to outside noise and EMI because it is an all digital path until the last mile (output to headphone). However it is inherently more "noisy" in its D>A conversion, and that its output power is limited. It is excellent for portable application, but is usually insufficient for high power demanding desktop application.

The Walkman team had already made the best device they can with the latest S-Master chip in the WM1Z which is only 2 years old when the DMP-Z1 was released, so internally it is even younger when the DMP-Z1 was in development. As they aren't going to have a new S-Master chip any time soon with increased power output, they cannot overcome the power limitation without doing something drastic with it. So instead of just sit on their ass and wait for new silicon to finish internally, the Walkman team decided to give the classic DAC/Class A topology a go and see what lessons they can learn from it by improving different areas of the signal path that's unrelated to the D to A portion, and apply that know-how to their next flagship Walkman. The flip side is also true - the Walkman team can also see whether the experiences they have with Class D applies to a Class A topology. Afterall, you have to dog food your own products to learn from them. That's what led to the DMP-Z1.

As for the home audio component team - the company has a new S-Master chip, so they also have to learn to use it and make products from it. So as a first test product they made the TA-ZH1ES - the company's FIRST desktop headphone amp. This venture allowed them to find the DA hybrid method in mitigating the shortcomings of using a pure Class D amp in a desktop situation. They also learned from this and has now created the Signature class SA-Z1 active speaker using the S-Master in the DA hybrid topology.

There's no "one ring to rule them all" here - each method has its place and depends on the application. The different team's willingness to test, learn, and release the products into the market allows them to grow and improve. When you think you've perfected something that's when you stop growing, and I'm glad the people at Sony don't have that mind set.
 
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Jan 7, 2022 at 3:39 AM Post #3,068 of 4,291
This TA-ZH1ES vs DMP discussion....
TA-ZH1ES is Sony's top device for indoor multipurpose audio in recent years.
DMP the one for indoor headphone audio.
NW WM1A/Z for mobile headphone audio.
It is expected they would have different components, architectures, performance and price points.
 
Jan 7, 2022 at 6:23 AM Post #3,070 of 4,291
Reading about the TA-ZH1ES vs DMP-Z1 discussion here is like having a recurring dream about a deja vu on Groundhog Day. Can I sum up the whole discussion this way:
1. For those who are contemplating purchasing either one of these devices, hear this -- (A) neither is portable, the DMP-Z1 is at best transportable though I cannot imagine anyone wanting to lug it around anywhere; (B) everyone hears things differently, that said, most everyone who has heard/owned both favors the DMP-Z1, and (C) you really should give both an audition despite what people here or anywhere is saying before coming to a decision. Happily, you should be able to test drive both devices with any of the Sony headphones and IEMS at a Sony showroom near you.
2. For those who already own the TA-ZH1ES and/or DMP-Z1, we know what we like, nothing more needs to be said.
3. For those who do not own or are not considering purchasing either TA-ZH1ES or DMP-Z1, there is enough literature and reviews to adequately serve the purpose of elucidation, there's no need to bring up minute details in a hair splitting exercise of dissecting every piece of component and parts to justify the cost or worth of the device for no real practical purpose.

Maybe it's me, but I think there are also others here who are more interested in hearing how to make the DMP-Z1 sound even better or function even more efficiently than -- excuse the language -- the weekly intellectual masturbation that goes on about the TA-ZH1ES vs DMP-Z1 over and over and over again... jeez!
 
Jan 7, 2022 at 7:37 AM Post #3,071 of 4,291
Reading about the TA-ZH1ES vs DMP-Z1 discussion here is like having a recurring dream about a deja vu on Groundhog Day.

Maybe it's me, but I think there are also others here who are more interested in hearing how to make the DMP-Z1 sound even better or function even more efficiently than -- excuse the language -- the weekly intellectual masturbation that goes on about the TA-ZH1ES vs DMP-Z1 over and over and over again... jeez!

It’s extremely tiring & constantly spoils the thread & it’s down to one person. Apparently rented the DMP-Z1 more than once ? ( & continues to claim that the TA is the better device to listen to. ) Spock, comes to mind, “That is illogical“. I have strong suspicions that said person, hasn’t actually rented it, that is, taken it home to audition. ( more than once. ) “illogical Captain”.
 

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Jan 7, 2022 at 9:21 AM Post #3,072 of 4,291
I love it both ways, direct and DSD-RE, both ways sounds nice and magical. There have been times i dont realiye i am direct and think i have DSD-RE on
 
Jan 7, 2022 at 11:58 AM Post #3,073 of 4,291
1. For those who are contemplating purchasing either one of these devices, hear this -- (A) neither is portable, the DMP-Z1 is at best transportable though I cannot imagine anyone wanting to lug it around anywhere;

I've mentioned this before but the audio engineer Sato-san (there are two Sato-san on the Walkman team - the project leader and the audio engineer lead) carries his DMP-Z1 from his home in Chiba to the Sony office in central Tokyo on the train everyday when he was developing it and after the device is launched, he also has his own custom made Van Nuys carry case which he showed me at a small music festival where he was attending privately after work.

The included official carrying case is nice looking but is more form over function (the handle strap is honestly not very comfortable for carrying), but with a backpack definitely you can carry the DMP-Z1 everywhere, you just have to be a bit crazy to do it. However with how sometimes you see people carrying IED-like portable rigs around to drive open over ear headphones out in the public, I absolutely believe Sato-san is not alone and some non-Sony related person is doing it as we speak.

This is also why I love the Sony Walkman team (and the other people involved in portable audio team in general, which of course includes Just ear product owner Matsuo-san too) - they are all crazy but in the good geeky/engineer way which really drives their passion to create and develop new things not just for the company to make money, but create something which they believe people will love.
 
Jan 7, 2022 at 12:22 PM Post #3,074 of 4,291
It’s extremely tiring & constantly spoils the thread & it’s down to one person. Apparently rented the DMP-Z1 more than once ? ( & continues to claim that the TA is the better device to listen to. ) Spock, comes to mind, “That is illogical“. I have strong suspicions that said person, hasn’t actually rented it, that is, taken it home to audition. ( more than once. ) “illogical Captain”.
Bud I believe the person just shows up to troll so best ignore. But definitely this thread gets diluted by all the incessant trolling and the moderators should do something about it. And it seriously boils down to just one person on this tread literally, cheers!
 
Jan 7, 2022 at 12:46 PM Post #3,075 of 4,291
Bud I believe the person just shows up to troll so best ignore. But definitely this thread gets diluted by all the incessant trolling and the moderators should do something about it. And it seriously boils down to just one person on this tread literally, cheers!

I’ve indicated what he or she is, in previous posts & because of that they will comeback time & time again & the best advice is to ignore, by not doing that you give them the constant supply they crave.
 

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