[cat3600]

The meze Liric tour has officially kicked off. So when there are 4 reviewers behind me and wveryone geta 2W review period. I can get zpect more or less to have them in 8 weeks @cat3600

Thanks man keep me informed. We have a buy and sell website in Canada called Canuck Audio similar to Audiogon in the US and someone has a Liric for sale for $2300 CAD I think I might go for it

 

[gerelmx1986]

Thanks man keep me informed. We have a buy and sell website in Canada called Canuck Audio similar to Audiogon in the US and someone has a Liric for sale for $2300 CAD I think I might go for it

Boah thqt price is a bit higher than in euros (1999€)

 

[gerelmx1986]

Looks like A&K is trying to chase sony LOL

 

[Vamp898]

If all you care about is the highest sound quality, no matter what, the DMP-Z1 is the best device.

Before you troll your mouth off, as per usual, I’ve owned the TA-ZH1ES for nearly 4 years & I’m almost certain that any owner of both devices will tell you that for pure sound quality, the DMP-Z1 wins hands down.

No one who OWNS both the devices is going to tell you that the TA is better.

You have any explanation why that is so?

The TA-ZH1ES uses better hardware, please explain why the DMP-Z1 is better using the worse hardware according to Sony.

Why is an Single analog Amp better then an Digital/Analog Hybrid AMP? Why did Sony switch from analog to hybrid if analog is better?

Why did Sony explain why they could not use the Hybrid amp if the analog is better anyway?

Don't you think the people who developed and build the device know best what is better? Why would you justify why you didn't use the worse technology?

If the DMP-Z1 is better then the TA-ZH1ES, nothing what Sony says makes sense anymore

Official quote from Sony

We believe that there are sounds that can only be heard with the S-Master full-digital amplifier.

And please do not say, because it's more expensive.

 

[Calfredo826]

You have any explanation why that is so?

The TA-ZH1ES uses better hardware, please explain why the DMP-Z1 is better using the worse hardware according to Sony.

Why is an Single analog Amp better then an Digital/Analog Hybrid AMP? Why did Sony switch from analog to hybrid if analog is better?

Why did Sony explain why they could not use the Hybrid amp if the analog is better anyway?

Don't you think the people who developed and build the device know best what is better? Why would you justify why you didn't use the worse technology?

If the DMP-Z1 is better then the TA-ZH1ES, nothing what Sony says makes sense anymore

Official quote from Sony


And please do not say, because it's more expensive.

That quote from Sony is pretty vague. Is it worse sounds? Better sounds? Doesn’t really say much tbh.

 

[Vamp898]

That quote from Sony is pretty vague. Is it worse sounds? Better sounds? Doesn’t really say much tbh.

Of course Sony advertises their products to be worse than the competitors. That's what every sane company does.

Actually Sony only makes vague arguments. They never ever say one single time that the DMP-Z1 is their best product, of course not. That'd be pretty stupid.

But it's not just the hybrid amp, the TA-ZH1ES also uses the better chassy and better capacitors.

Sony does not position the DMP-Z1 above the TA-ZH1ES, they advertise them as different devices for different use cases that can't be compared.

And I agree. The TA-ZH1ES is not an Player, it's not portable and does have almost double the output power of the DMP-Z1. They can't be compared.

If you want an portable device, you don't buy the TA-ZH1ES. If you want something to drive hard to drive headphones, you don't buy the DMP-Z1.

I personally don't think the TA-ZH1ES is better or worse, it's mostly different and that is what Sony says too. The only real statement about sound quality that Son made is, that the S-Master HX is better then analog because it doesn't need error correction (which the DMP-Z1 needs and uses)

According to Sony, the only disadvantage of the S-Master HX is it's limited output power

If the S-Master HX could output more then 250mW without an hybrid setup, the DMP-Z1 would have used it.

That is, for me, the proof that Sony thinks it's superior. They would have used it if they could have made it possible, but they weren't and so they decided for an compromise to keep the DMP-Z1 portable.

Here is another quote that shows that

One of the main features of the S-Master is that it is a non-feedback amplifier that does not use negative feedback, and this method allows it to faithfully reproduce even the faintest of sounds in a sound source without being overshadowed by other sounds. In short, we believe that the most important thing is to be able to faithfully reproduce the sound that the artist wants to convey in the sound source, no matter how small it is.

 

[nanaholic]

That is, for me, the proof that Sony thinks it's superior. They would have used it if they could have made it possible, but they weren't and so they decided for an compromise to keep the DMP-Z1 portable.

Your entire argument falls apart simply for the fact that the DMP-Z1 is made by the Walkman team, whereas the TA-ZH1ES is made by the home audio component team. The two teams are completely different with different people lead by different product owners with different goals, who out of respect for each other's work and other reasons, is going to keep the comments vague.

Also it's not true the TA-ZH1ES has the better chassis, milling the H-shaped DMP-Z1 chassis from a solid block of aluminium is in fact much more expensive and more work than the standard bathtub design of the TA-ZH1ES using extrusion method for the frame.

 

[Rob49]

You have any explanation why that is so?

Yes I do actually. It’s those things attached to the side of my head…..called…..EARS !

 

[Damz87]

Of course Sony advertises their products to be worse than the competitors. That's what every sane company does.

Actually Sony only makes vague arguments. They never ever say one single time that the DMP-Z1 is their best product, of course not. That'd be pretty stupid.

But it's not just the hybrid amp, the TA-ZH1ES also uses the better chassy and better capacitors.

Sony does not position the DMP-Z1 above the TA-ZH1ES, they advertise them as different devices for different use cases that can't be compared.

And I agree. The TA-ZH1ES is not an Player, it's not portable and does have almost double the output power of the DMP-Z1. They can't be compared.

If you want an portable device, you don't buy the TA-ZH1ES. If you want something to drive hard to drive headphones, you don't buy the DMP-Z1.

I personally don't think the TA-ZH1ES is better or worse, it's mostly different and that is what Sony says too. The only real statement about sound quality that Son made is, that the S-Master HX is better then analog because it doesn't need error correction (which the DMP-Z1 needs and uses)

According to Sony, the only disadvantage of the S-Master HX is it's limited output power

If the S-Master HX could output more then 250mW without an hybrid setup, the DMP-Z1 would have used it.

That is, for me, the proof that Sony thinks it's superior. They would have used it if they could have made it possible, but they weren't and so they decided for an compromise to keep the DMP-Z1 portable.

Here is another quote that shows that

The TA-ZH1ES is a great sounding device. Thoroughly enjoyed it whilst I had it. Power output, functionality and price aside, I still preferred the DMP-Z1 tonality to TA-ZH1ES however. I found the TA to sound very smooth and laidback. DMP by comparison sounded slightly more analytical, energetic and exciting. I also heard a cleaner, darker background which led to better instrument separation and sharper imaging on DMP with certain IEM’s.

But there were certain IEM pair ups that I preferred on TA over DMP. qdc Anole VX, Final A8000 and Rhapsodio Supreme Mk2 to name a few.

Ultimately, better specs doesn’t always result in better sound quality. Synergy is king IMHO.

One feature that I absolutely loved with TA-ZH1ES was the PRE-OUT function. I used it with a pair of powered speakers and it was amazing.

 

[cosplayerkyo]

As much as I loved my TAZ, the DMP sounds won my heart more. To my ears with my IEMs and headphones and speakers, it sounds clearer, and the imaging is far above.

 

[nanaholic]

https://online.stereosound.co.jp/_ct/17225926

Old interview before the sale of the DMP-Z1 where product owner Sato-san say that from the estimates during pre-production it takes over an hour just to mill each of the H-shaped chassis from the solid block of aluminium.

 

[gerelmx1986]

Some one here mentioned that DMP wasnt made for High-impedancw headphone due to the lack of 6.3mm and XLR.

I find this silly. It has a bakanced and an unbalanced output and you can use adapters sich as 4.4 to XLR

 

[Vamp898]

Your entire argument falls apart simply for the fact that the DMP-Z1 is made by the Walkman team, whereas the TA-ZH1ES is made by the home audio component team. The two teams are completely different with different people lead by different product owners with different goals, who out of respect for each other's work and other reasons, is going to keep the comments vague.

Also it's not true the TA-ZH1ES has the better chassis, milling the H-shaped DMP-Z1 chassis from a solid block of aluminium is in fact much more expensive and more work than the standard bathtub design of the TA-ZH1ES using extrusion method for the frame.

That is true, everything in the DMP-Z1 is more expensive to make including the chassis.

But i said better, not more expensive.

The TA-ZH1ES weights more (which reduces vibrations in the first place), uses bigger dampers and more layers to dampen vibration. The top part is almost loose and just layed on top of it because if it would be too stiff or too loose, it would affect the sound negatively. Everything on the TA-ZH1ES chassis was designed to be jitter free.

The DMP-Z1 chassis on the other hand was designed to be portable and was designed to be a player, so it is rock solid and undampened. So the TA-ZH1ES uses the better chassis, even though its the cheaper one because it reduces jitter better.

You can, of course, argue that the components in the TA-ZH1ES produce more vibrations in the first place and so the chassis needs to be better than the DMP-Z1 chassis to be able to produce the same results and there is no final answer as you would have to analize the TA-ZH1ES in a solid chassis and the DMP-Z1 in a damped one to ultimately know the truth.

But the TA-ZH1ES chassis is the one that is more optimized to reduce jitter.

 

[Vamp898]

The TA-ZH1ES is a great sounding device. Thoroughly enjoyed it whilst I had it. Power output, functionality and price aside, I still preferred the DMP-Z1 tonality to TA-ZH1ES however. I found the TA to sound very smooth and laidback. DMP by comparison sounded slightly more analytical, energetic and exciting. I also heard a cleaner, darker background which led to better instrument separation and sharper imaging on DMP with certain IEM’s.

But there were certain IEM pair ups that I preferred on TA over DMP. qdc Anole VX, Final A8000 and Rhapsodio Supreme Mk2 to name a few.

Ultimately, better specs doesn’t always result in better sound quality. Synergy is king IMHO.

One feature that I absolutely loved with TA-ZH1ES was the PRE-OUT function. I used it with a pair of powered speakers and it was amazing.

The choice of Headphones is always very important anyway so of course, every statement i made was regarding the headphones/earphones i own and use.

To me, the DMP-Z1 doesn't sound as fast as the TA-ZH1ES. I have some songs where, with the IER-M9, you can really hear the TA-ZH1ES is faster.

Its a bit like WM1A vs WM1Z. At first glance, the WM1A sounds a bit more clearer and seems to have more detail retrieval and better treble overall because it is more balanced. The much warmer sound of the WM1Z makes it harder to notice that the WM1Z actually does have the better treble. Its kinda masked by its warmness but with just the right IEM like the IER-M9, you can hear with songs that need good treble, that the WM1Z is better.

And it is similar for me with DMP-Z1 vs TA-ZH1ES. The DMP-Z1 sounds like it is faster at first, but with the right songs and the IER-M9, if you listen closely, you notice that its more complicated.

The DMP-Z1 is more ketchup and mustard if you understand what i mean and i think the reason to this is because Sony tried to make an analog amp sound like an digital. Its as close as it gets and i think its a big part of its rather unique sound compared to other analog amp designs.

At least with the IER-M9 the TA-ZH1ES doesn't sound as exciting at first, but in the bass and especially in the treble, there is more depth. The highs are finer, more satiny but faster at the same time. The bass also has more depth to it and sounds just a tiny bit less compressed, it starts lower on the floor and creeps up spreading out more which make it sound less exciting at first.

The IER-M9 is my main and most important gear i own and to me personally, it shines more with the TA-ZH1ES, especially in terms of bass, treble and layering.

But (imho) the DMP-Z1 still is worth its money and an excellent choice, why not? It is not the worse device but that is not enough for the people who praise it. The DMP-Z1 is not supposed to be as good or different, is supposed to be better.

The DMP-Z1 has to be the ultimate and definitive device from Sony because it is the most expensive according to the people who own it. I mean, of course, they bought it due to that reason. But there are 1000€ Desktop Workstations that are better than 3000€ Notebooks. If you don't have to take any compromise on size/weight, you have more freedom to create whatever you want and often much cheaper. The DMP-Z1 needs to run of batteries because that is the whole deal after all and that causes limitations nobody can deny. Battery power is more limited but also does have its advantages. You get some, you loose some.

But batteries enable the DMP-Z1 to do things the TA-ZH1ES can't do.i just don't see it as the definitive device, that doesn't mean its not worth its money, nor does it mean it is bad or something similar.

And the interview, imho, showed exactly that. The guy asked "Why didn't you use the D.A. Hybrid Amp" and the answer was not "Because this is as good", the answer was "Because we couldn't, the batteries don't have enough voltage". That is key to me.

The separation of the two boards, the Alps Volume poti, those are all things that are needed because the DMP-Z1 uses an analog amp. Those are solutions to an problem the TA-ZH1ES doesn't have. The DMP-Z1 sends an digital Signal to the AKM DACs, and they output an analog signal that travels through several components inside the device while being analog and when it reaches the analog amp, travel through an feedback network to remove distortion at high output power. The S-Master gets an digital signal and outputs an analog signal. Everything is done inside the S-Master HX and that does have so many advantages to the sound quality but also the limitation, that the output power is defined by the capabilities of the MOSFET inside the S-Master, there is no Feedback system.

As Sony said in the TA-ZH1ES Interview, Digital Amps are an dead technology, there is nothing really you can improve, and Texas Instruments does have an similar opinion on it. Beside the output power, there is nothing you can do to digital amps, they are pretty much as perfect as it gets.

I just don't see a reason why any design decision inside the DMP-Z1 is helping it be better than the TA-ZH1ES. Almost everything inside the DMP-Z1 is totally designed around the limitation of an traditional DAC/AMP combo and not to be superior to the S-Master. Again the Alps, the two board, all this solves problems the TA-ZH1ES never had.

I personally see the DMP-Z1 as an portable version of the TA-ZH1ES the same way an Notebook is an portable Version of an Desktop. And as with Notebooks/Desktops, the DMP-Z1 does have the same advantages, limitations and the same typical portable tax, the price increase you pay for every device that is portable.

 

[Rob49]

The choice of Headphones is always very important anyway so of course, every statement i made was regarding the headphones/earphones i own and use.

To me, the DMP-Z1 doesn't sound as fast as the TA-ZH1ES. I have some songs where, with the IER-M9, you can really hear the TA-ZH1ES is faster.

Its a bit like WM1A vs WM1Z. At first glance, the WM1A sounds a bit more clearer and seems to have more detail retrieval and better treble overall because it is more balanced. The much warmer sound of the WM1Z makes it harder to notice that the WM1Z actually does have the better treble. Its kinda masked by its warmness but with just the right IEM like the IER-M9, you can hear with songs that need good treble, that the WM1Z is better.

And it is similar for me with DMP-Z1 vs TA-ZH1ES. The DMP-Z1 sounds like it is faster at first, but with the right songs and the IER-M9, if you listen closely, you notice that its more complicated.

The DMP-Z1 is more ketchup and mustard if you understand what i mean and i think the reason to this is because Sony tried to make an analog amp sound like an digital. Its as close as it gets and i think its a big part of its rather unique sound compared to other analog amp designs.

At least with the IER-M9 the TA-ZH1ES doesn't sound as exciting at first, but in the bass and especially in the treble, there is more depth. The highs are finer, more satiny but faster at the same time. The bass also has more depth to it and sounds just a tiny bit less compressed, it starts lower on the floor and creeps up spreading out more which make it sound less exciting at first.

The IER-M9 is my main and most important gear i own and to me personally, it shines more with the TA-ZH1ES, especially in terms of bass, treble and layering.

But (imho) the DMP-Z1 still is worth its money and an excellent choice, why not? It is not the worse device but that is not enough for the people who praise it. The DMP-Z1 is not supposed to be as good or different, is supposed to be better.

The DMP-Z1 has to be the ultimate and definitive device from Sony because it is the most expensive according to the people who own it. I mean, of course, they bought it due to that reason. But there are 1000€ Desktop Workstations that are better than 3000€ Notebooks. If you don't have to take any compromise on size/weight, you have more freedom to create whatever you want and often much cheaper. The DMP-Z1 needs to run of batteries because that is the whole deal after all and that causes limitations nobody can deny. Battery power is more limited but also does have its advantages. You get some, you loose some.

But batteries enable the DMP-Z1 to do things the TA-ZH1ES can't do.i just don't see it as the definitive device, that doesn't mean its not worth its money, nor does it mean it is bad or something similar.

And the interview, imho, showed exactly that. The guy asked "Why didn't you use the D.A. Hybrid Amp" and the answer was not "Because this is as good", the answer was "Because we couldn't, the batteries don't have enough voltage". That is key to me.

The separation of the two boards, the Alps Volume poti, those are all things that are needed because the DMP-Z1 uses an analog amp. Those are solutions to an problem the TA-ZH1ES doesn't have. The DMP-Z1 sends an digital Signal to the AKM DACs, and they output an analog signal that travels through several components inside the device while being analog and when it reaches the analog amp, travel through an feedback network to remove distortion at high output power. The S-Master gets an digital signal and outputs an analog signal. Everything is done inside the S-Master HX and that does have so many advantages to the sound quality but also the limitation, that the output power is defined by the capabilities of the MOSFET inside the S-Master, there is no Feedback system.

As Sony said in the TA-ZH1ES Interview, Digital Amps are an dead technology, there is nothing really you can improve, and Texas Instruments does have an similar opinion on it. Beside the output power, there is nothing you can do to digital amps, they are pretty much as perfect as it gets.

I just don't see a reason why any design decision inside the DMP-Z1 is helping it be better than the TA-ZH1ES. Almost everything inside the DMP-Z1 is totally designed around the limitation of an traditional DAC/AMP combo and not to be superior to the S-Master. Again the Alps, the two board, all this solves problems the TA-ZH1ES never had.

I personally see the DMP-Z1 as an portable version of the TA-ZH1ES the same way an Notebook is an portable Version of an Desktop. And as with Notebooks/Desktops, the DMP-Z1 does have the same advantages, limitations and the same typical portable tax, the price increase you pay for every device that is portable.